So much for this potent offense we were supposed to have....

[diver]

unfortunately there are a few that only want the "go Steelers" stuff here...

No. But will someone, anyone, explain to me what impact all the bitching will have? I have asked this numerous times to no avail. If Rooney would listen to us, fine. But he will not. So what the **** does it accomplish?

This is why I try to stay out of most of it. To be honest, I have had my fill of Tomlin. But all I would be contributing is more bitching, and again, what does it accomplish?

 

[diver]

Well Manning's pick six in the Superbowl that sealed the win for the Saints wasn't too smooth.

My point is that Brady is abnormal. We look at it as if it is the norm, and it isn't. Hell, even Montana lost games and threw picks. It is remarkable. I would argue that if it wasn't for us all watching Brady be almost perfect every week, we wouldn't be as critical of Ben.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Ben willed his way? Sorry Ben was horrible in the first super bowl he didn't will **** and let's not forget the horrendous game he had against the jets to get to his 3rd super bowl. You can easily say the team carried him to 1 superbowls win and another appearance. Has there ever been another qb who played that bad in a Super Bowl and champ game to win them

Trent Dilfer.

 

[scraps]

 

[RollRed]

My point is that Brady is abnormal. We look at it as if it is the norm, and it isn't. Hell, even Montana lost games and threw picks. It is remarkable. I would argue that if it wasn't for us all watching Brady be almost perfect every week, we wouldn't be as critical of Ben.

This is a very good point. Brady almost never plays a bad game. Even when they lose, it's never because he threw a bunch of picks or missed a bunch of open receivers. I'm sure he's had a few stinkers in his career, but they've been few and far between. Now I know there is going to be more than a few of you say it's because he's a cheater, but I just don't think the league would knowingly allow an organization skirt the rules. Reason being there is no way they would risk popping what would amount to a giant hole in their $9 billion balloon. If there is one thing I know for sure in this life, it's that rich people will NEVER risk killing their cash cows, especially one that pulls in $9 billion a year. If it were to come out that certain teams were given permission to cheat, the whole apple cart would come crashing down. Pro football would instantly become wrestling... a "sport" with predetermined winners and losers. I'm not saying that I don't think the Patriots got away with some ****... they definitely did. I just don't believe for a moment that the owners would ever want the fans to think they're watching a rigged game.

 

[Vader]

No. But will someone, anyone, explain to me what impact all the bitching will have? I have asked this numerous times to no avail. If Rooney would listen to us, fine. But he will not. So what the **** does it accomplish?

This is why I try to stay out of most of it. To be honest, I have had my fill of Tomlin. But all I would be contributing is more bitching, and again, what does it accomplish?

What impact does the "rah rah" stuff have? You think Rooney is listening to that? This is a "discussion" board so there is both sides. But some don't want both sides. They just want the "Steelers are great and never do anything wrong" type of posters.

 

[TAS]

No. But will someone, anyone, explain to me what impact all the bitching will have? I have asked this numerous times to no avail. If Rooney would listen to us, fine. But he will not. So what the **** does it accomplish?

This is why I try to stay out of most of it. To be honest, I have had my fill of Tomlin. But all I would be contributing is more bitching, and again, what does it accomplish?

See all the blind fan cheering is equally annoying to me. Some problems we have Stevie Wonder could see and fix

 

[Ron Burgundy]

What impact does the "rah rah" stuff have? You think Rooney is listening to that? This is a "discussion" board so there is both sides. But some don't want both sides. They just want the "Steelers are great and never do anything wrong" type of posters.

Hater.

 

[diver]

See all the blind fan cheering is equally annoying to me. Some problems we have Stevie Wonder could see and fix

But we can see the problems all day, and still not have an ounce of power to bring change.

I have been married 25 years. If my wife gets a new outfit or something and asks me what I think, it is always, " It's great." Keeps things running smoothly at home. Even if I hate it, she still bought it. The change I want I cannot accomplish, which is for her not to spend the money, she has enough ****** outfits. If I tell her I don't like it, she will go get something else. So I don't *****. Igt is the way I try to approach the Steelers. Until i can get some control, which will never happen, I try to limit my bitching.

 

[FSF]

Not counting the games Ben didn't play, in the 4 he did play the offense has struggled to score in 3 of them. And I don't want to hear about injuries, suspensions, blah blah blah. All teams have them. Green Bay lost their #1 receiver but they have been okay ( except for last night ). New England could put the water boys in and they'd still score points. Carolina lost their #1 receiver and they're undefeated. The point is simply this... If Ben is as great as everyone says why does this offense have such a hard time scoring ******* points? He looks great 20 to 20, but unfortunately that's not what wins games. You gotta put the ball over the little white line and for some reason we struggle to do that in a lot of games.

The whole point of the Elite offense was having the players on the field like Roethlisberger, Bell, Brown, Bryant and even Pouncey.

So If you don't wanna care about suspensions and injuries, then go watch the 1983 or 1986 Steelers for an elite offense. I'm sure you'll love the Cliff Stoudt, Mark Malone, Walter Abercrombie, Calvin Sweeney and company days.

 

[obxsteeler]

What impact does the "rah rah" stuff have? You think Rooney is listening to that? This is a "discussion" board so there is both sides. But some don't want both sides. They just want the "Steelers are great and never do anything wrong" type of posters.

Why is any positive post a "blind fan" and any negative one an "insightful critic" ?

 

[Stryker]

Why is any positive post a "blind fan" and any negative one an "insightful critic" ?

You're forgetting that positive posters are homosexual.

 

[Vader]

Why is any positive post a "blind fan" and any negative one an "insightful critic" ?

Why is any negative post "You hate everything about this team" and any positive post "You're a real fan"

 

[blitzburghv5]

Why is any negative post "You hate everything about this team" and any positive post "You're a real fan"

Probably because, I don't know, perhaps 90% of what you post is criticism.

Theres enough criticism to go around with every team, unless youre in Foxboro, I guess. But there some wonderful things that have happened to/with this team. Im not saying break out pastel balloons, pink and white frosted cakes and do Winnie the Pooh dances and ****, but it certainly entertaining to watch the growth of several players and to see this team compete for a PO spot every year. Everything aint ****** in the land of the Burgh.

 

[Steel G]

This is a very good point. Brady almost never plays a bad game. Even when they lose, it's never because he threw a bunch of picks or missed a bunch of open receivers. I'm sure he's had a few stinkers in his career, but they've been few and far between. Now I know there is going to be more than a few of you say it's because he's a cheater, but I just don't think the league would knowingly allow an organization skirt the rules. Reason being there is no way they would risk popping what would amount to a giant hole in their $9 billion balloon. If there is one thing I know for sure in this life, it's that rich people will NEVER risk killing their cash cows, especially one that pulls in $9 billion a year. If it were to come out that certain teams were given permission to cheat, the whole apple cart would come crashing down. Pro football would instantly become wrestling... a "sport" with predetermined winners and losers. I'm not saying that I don't think the Patriots got away with some ****... they definitely did. I just don't believe for a moment that the owners would ever want the fans to think they're watching a rigged game.

All I can say is this. To my knowledge, there's only been one other team that has consistently strung together 10+ win seasons like the Pats*, and that was the '83 - '98 49ers. And for 75% of that run, they did it with neither free agency nor a salary cap to contend with. And the other 25% of that was helped by them cheating the salary cap. There is no way on this earth, during this era, that I will accept that what they are doing in NE* is on the up and up. It never happened in the old days when there were only a handful of teams in existence and just a couple teams had all the talent. The mighty Packers didn't do it before, during, or after the merger. Landry and the Cowboys came close (they were thwarted 2 separate times and 1 time cut short by a strike), and again, even without free agency or a cap, they didn't do it. Not the 70s Steelers nor any of their contenders in that decade like the Raiders or Dolphins. Think about that, the Raiders. A team that would do whatever it took to win, never even came close to having a similar run of winning seasons. The 90s Cowboys didn't do it either, nor the Broncos. Manning and the Colts didn't either, though they had a real nice stretch. And in this revenue sharing, free agent, salary cap world of parity I'm supposed to believe this uncharismatic, Cleveland Stain cast off suddenly, for 12+ seasons, can never finish worse than 10-6? No matter how many cast offs he signs or productive players he doesn't want to pay, he simply can't lose? And why can't any of his former coaches have any success anywhere else in the same league? Take them out of NE* and they gag uncontrollably. Countless "experts" can repeat over and over to me about Belicheat's greatness, but I'm sorry, I'll never buy into it. Ever.

 

[AggieSteel]

All I can say is this. To my knowledge, there's only been one other team that has consistently strung together 10+ win seasons like the Pats*, and that was the '83 - '98 49ers. And for 75% of that run, they did it with neither free agency nor a salary cap to contend with. And the other 25% of that was helped by them cheating the salary cap. There is no way on this earth, during this era, that I will accept that what they are doing in NE* is on the up and up. It never happened in the old days when there were only a handful of teams in existence and just a couple teams had all the talent. The mighty Packers didn't do it before, during, or after the merger. Landry and the Cowboys came close (they were thwarted 2 separate times and 1 time cut short by a strike), and again, even without free agency or a cap, they didn't do it. Not the 70s Steelers nor any of their contenders in that decade like the Raiders or Dolphins. Think about that, the Raiders. A team that would do whatever it took to win, never even came close to having a similar run of winning seasons. The 90s Cowboys didn't do it either, nor the Broncos. Manning and the Colts didn't either, though they had a real nice stretch. And in this revenue sharing, free agent, salary cap world of parity I'm supposed to believe this uncharismatic, Cleveland Stain cast off suddenly, for 12+ seasons, can never finish worse than 10-6? No matter how many cast offs he signs or productive players he doesn't want to pay, he simply can't lose? And why can't any of his former coaches have any success anywhere else in the same league? Take them out of NE* and they gag uncontrollably. Countless "experts" can repeat over and over to me about Belicheat's greatness, but I'm sorry, I'll never buy into it. Ever.

******* exactly

 

[RollRed]

All I can say is this. To my knowledge, there's only been one other team that has consistently strung together 10+ win seasons like the Pats*, and that was the '83 - '98 49ers. And for 75% of that run, they did it with neither free agency nor a salary cap to contend with. And the other 25% of that was helped by them cheating the salary cap. There is no way on this earth, during this era, that I will accept that what they are doing in NE* is on the up and up. It never happened in the old days when there were only a handful of teams in existence and just a couple teams had all the talent. The mighty Packers didn't do it before, during, or after the merger. Landry and the Cowboys came close (they were thwarted 2 separate times and 1 time cut short by a strike), and again, even without free agency or a cap, they didn't do it. Not the 70s Steelers nor any of their contenders in that decade like the Raiders or Dolphins. Think about that, the Raiders. A team that would do whatever it took to win, never even came close to having a similar run of winning seasons. The 90s Cowboys didn't do it either, nor the Broncos. Manning and the Colts didn't either, though they had a real nice stretch. And in this revenue sharing, free agent, salary cap world of parity I'm supposed to believe this uncharismatic, Cleveland Stain cast off suddenly, for 12+ seasons, can never finish worse than 10-6? No matter how many cast offs he signs or productive players he doesn't want to pay, he simply can't lose? And why can't any of his former coaches have any success anywhere else in the same league? Take them out of NE* and they gag uncontrollably. Countless "experts" can repeat over and over to me about Belicheat's greatness, but I'm sorry, I'll never buy into it. Ever.

Fair enough. My question then is simple. Why do you and all the others that feel the way you feel continue to follow the NFL? I'm assuming you do based on the fact that you are on this website. I don't think a person that has lost interest in pro football would continue to read and post comments on a website where the topic is always centered around the NFL. I know if I believed that the fix was in, as you obviously do, I wouldn't waste another minute of my time following a sport that I was convinced is fixed. I also do not subscribe to the notion that, just because something has never happened, it never can happen. Brady is a really accurate, smart QB. He gets rid of the ball on time and to the right receiver depending on what the defense is giving him. That's it. It ain't Belichick that deserves the credit for the Pats winning all the time. It's all Brady. The coaches that leave don't have the success they had in New England for one simple reason... they don't get to take #12 with them.

 

[USDA#1]

 

[diver]

All I can say is this. To my knowledge, there's only been one other team that has consistently strung together 10+ win seasons like the Pats*, and that was the '83 - '98 49ers. And for 75% of that run, they did it with neither free agency nor a salary cap to contend with. And the other 25% of that was helped by them cheating the salary cap. There is no way on this earth, during this era, that I will accept that what they are doing in NE* is on the up and up. It never happened in the old days when there were only a handful of teams in existence and just a couple teams had all the talent. The mighty Packers didn't do it before, during, or after the merger. Landry and the Cowboys came close (they were thwarted 2 separate times and 1 time cut short by a strike), and again, even without free agency or a cap, they didn't do it. Not the 70s Steelers nor any of their contenders in that decade like the Raiders or Dolphins. Think about that, the Raiders. A team that would do whatever it took to win, never even came close to having a similar run of winning seasons. The 90s Cowboys didn't do it either, nor the Broncos. Manning and the Colts didn't either, though they had a real nice stretch. And in this revenue sharing, free agent, salary cap world of parity I'm supposed to believe this uncharismatic, Cleveland Stain cast off suddenly, for 12+ seasons, can never finish worse than 10-6? No matter how many cast offs he signs or productive players he doesn't want to pay, he simply can't lose? And why can't any of his former coaches have any success anywhere else in the same league? Take them out of NE* and they gag uncontrollably. Countless "experts" can repeat over and over to me about Belicheat's greatness, but I'm sorry, I'll never buy into it. Ever.

I cannot stand the whole, 'Wah, wah, they are cheating" thing. If for no other reason than it makes us look like a bunch of 3rd graders. Victims.

I still maintain, and always will, that part of cheating is the other team allowing themselves to be cheated upon. The headsets go out? Screw it. You are paying your QB $20 million. I would think for that he could call his own plays and not worry about having to get them from the sideline. They film your practice? Instead of running a **** ton of formations, run limited ones but many different plays off of them. You can tape all you want then, you still don't know what is coming. Instead of getting more complex, the way to beat him is simplify. He counts on other teams out thinking themselves.

In the Raider game on Sunday, the Steelers are at the goal line. The play before Williams scores on the 4th down, they come up with some special formation. They bring in Hubbard from the sideline for this special brilliance, a guy who has been standing there for a quarter and a half. Whatever the **** they were doing, it gets stuffed. Belechick doesn't do **** like that, but he counts on other coaches doing it. I just cannot separate entirely what is cheating and what is other coaches doing stupid ****.

 

[stillwright]

I cannot stand the whole, 'Wah, wah, they are cheating" thing. If for no other reason than it makes us look like a bunch of 3rd graders. Victims.

I still maintain, and always will, that part of cheating is the other team allowing themselves to be cheated upon. The headsets go out? Screw it. You are paying your QB $20 million. I would think for that he could call his own plays and not worry about having to get them from the sideline. They film your practice? Instead of running a **** ton of formations, run limited ones but many different plays off of them. You can tape all you want then, you still don't know what is coming. Instead of getting more complex, the way to beat him is simplify. He counts on other teams out thinking themselves.

In the Raider game on Sunday, the Steelers are at the goal line. The play before Williams scores on the 4th down, they come up with some special formation. They bring in Hubbard from the sideline for this special brilliance, a guy who has been standing there for a quarter and a half. Whatever the **** they were doing, it gets stuffed. Belechick doesn't do **** like that, but he counts on other coaches doing it. I just cannot separate entirely what is cheating and what is other coaches doing stupid ****.

Belicheat**** did/does stuff like that all the time. Hell that LBer that use to play here used to line up down there at the GL and catch TD passes all the time. For some reason no one would ever cover him when he was in. This made Belicheat**** a genius. And while I don't ***** about the Pats cheating for the most part anymore I will never look at the NFL the same. I will never look at the Rooney's the same. They let it be swept under the rug when they OWED it to their fan to of done more. Well in my opinion anyways.

 

[diver]

Belicheat**** did/does stuff like that all the time. Hell that LBer that use to play here used to line up down there at the GL and catch TD passes all the time. For some reason no one would ever cover him when he was in. This made Belicheat**** a genius. And while I don't ***** about the Pats cheating for the most part anymore I will never look at the NFL the same. I will never look at the Rooney's the same. They let it be swept under the rug when they OWED it to their fan to of done more. Well in my opinion anyways.

The difference is Vrabel was playing. He was playing defense. He wasn't coming in off the bench cold. And that's the thing. Is it cheating or dumbness by the other team. You would think it would be, after the first time, "Hey, 56 is out here. Cover him." It isn't like he was uncoverable. He was a LB for **** sake.

 

[Steel G]

Fair enough. My question then is simple. Why do you and all the others that feel the way you feel continue to follow the NFL? I'm assuming you do based on the fact that you are on this website. I don't think a person that has lost interest in pro football would continue to read and post comments on a website where the topic is always centered around the NFL. I know if I believed that the fix was in, as you obviously do, I wouldn't waste another minute of my time following a sport that I was convinced is fixed. I also do not subscribe to the notion that, just because something has never happened, it never can happen. Brady is a really accurate, smart QB. He gets rid of the ball on time and to the right receiver depending on what the defense is giving him. That's it. It ain't Belichick that deserves the credit for the Pats winning all the time. It's all Brady. The coaches that leave don't have the success they had in New England for one simple reason... they don't get to take #12 with them.

I never said it was a league fix, just that the Pats are cheating. If it was a league fix, they wouldn't be trying as hard as they did to bust them on something like deflated footballs. Think of it like the government bringing down Capone on tax evasion, they gotta try something. I still love the Steelers and like the game. Key word in that second part is "like." I used to love the game. This current version I'm shaky on. I don't like how soft defense has become and don't really care for the huge focus on passing and passing stats. And the rules confusions and sub par officiating at times makes watching the game a frustrating experience. Therefore, I don't watch nearly as much football now as I used to, for about the last 5 years or so. I will make sure I catch the Steeler game if I can and if I get a chance to watch one of the other games on a Sunday, I will put one on for background noise. But I don't go out of my way to watch the other games like I used to. I used to be one of those guys where, basically, from 1:00 to like 11:00 on a Sunday I was completely and totally useless to the world cause I was glued to the TV. Not at all anymore. And when it comes to the Pats*, I don't watch. Though I watched the opener against the Steelers even though I seriously considered ignoring it. But like I said, I still love the Steelers and couldn't help myself.

 

[stillwright]

The difference is Vrabel was playing. He was playing defense. He wasn't coming in off the bench cold. And that's the thing. Is it cheating or dumbness by the other team. You would think it would be, after the first time, "Hey, 56 is out here. Cover him." It isn't like he was uncoverable. He was a LB for **** sake.

I didn't say putting him in was cheating....but spygate and of late deflategate were. At least i was not trying to imply that it was.

 

[diver]

I didn't say putting him in was cheating....but spygate and of late deflategate were. At least i was not trying to imply that it was.

My answer sort of implied that I thought you meant putting Vrabel in was cheating. I didn't mean that and I know you were not implying that. What I am saying is that with the Vrabel thing, how the hell do you not account for the guy after the first couple times? That has to just be oversight somewhere, by the coach or maybe the players aren't paying attention or whatever.

My point as I feel that applies to the cheating as well. I think that part of being cheated on is allowing yourself to be cheated on. I think most NFL teams have fallen into that trap with the Patriots. Like I said, if the headsets go out and you know that will be a problem, don't be dependent on them. You have a $20 million QB, let him call the plays. Quit burning to clock down trying to get into the perfect play. Run what you call, especially if you think your athletes are better than theirs.

I think Belechick loves the fact that everyone thinks he is cheating, whether he is or isn't. People think so and let it bother them. I remember Madden saying he enjoyed the fact that other teams were worried coming to Oakland about shenanigans. What I loved about the old Steeler/Raider rivalry is that the Steelers didn't get all worked up about it. When the Raiders came to town in '75 the tarp mysteriously ripped causing the sidelines to freeze. The Raiders were a sideline route team. Tghat is how you handle **** like Belechick.

 

[madtacker]

If you watch the pats play right now you can see they are just taking advantage of the new rules & they have a disciplined QB who is accurate.

They dink & dunk all game and wait for the other team to make a mistake. ( either buy missed tackles, blown coverage, etc. )

What they are doing is not freakin rocket science and the head coach is no genius.

They have a system that works and they get & draft high IQ people at certain positions that matter.

They don't need tall flashy receivers who go deep because they never throw deep.

They are content to kill you by a thousand cuts.

In todays game with rules favoring the offense they take full advantage with small, speedy, quick receivers, and run short routes.

Allowing the QB to get rid of the ball quickly. Never get sacked, injured, or play behind the sticks.

With piss poor tackling in todays game they know at some point the yards after catch will come or with they many different looks they will catch you in blown coverage and make you pay.

They are prepared, sound, and consistent with their approach.

Then when they have you on your heels trying to chase these receivers around they soften you up and hit you with draws, and the run. Now your really off balance.

You cant rattle or hit a QB when he gets the ball out in 2 seconds. People were crying about our pass rush week one? Did you see how fast he gets the ball out?

They keep the pressure on you by basically running via short pass. It takes accuracy & discipline by the QB.

When they have a 3rd and two they don't throw 30 yard bombs. They are content to get a first down and start chipping away at you again.

This is the offense I thought the Steelers were heading towards.

When Haley was hired it was to keep Ben upright. Get the ball out of his hands faster, and have a effective running game.

The first year from the start of pre season this is what they were doing. You could see it right away. Short quick throws, many more passes to running backs in the flats, etc.

Ben was staying healthy most important !!!!!

Each year since then we are watching them progress back to a team who every new set of downs it seems like they are throwing the ball deep.

We heard a lot of the relationship between Ben & Haley being a little cold at first. True or not we don't know, but what we do know is Ben sure didn't greet him with open arms.

Haley after time and after the first year says " I am giving more of the play book to Ben and letting him have a bigger say in what he wants to do"

Is it any coincidence he seems to be taking more hits this year. I am sure a lot of that has to do with line injuries and maybe it has everything to do with it, but where is the grown up in the room who says OK we have a beat up line and we cant be going long all the time? Or having Ben hold the ball to long?

How many third and shorts have they threw long balls on this year. Sure seems like a lot.

Yes they complete some but it isn't a high percentage play that keeps the chains moving.

When they go to a quick quick pass plan like the opening of the Rams game for one example. Everything was like 12 yds and under they were shredding the Rams.

We see glimpses of this play and then it goes away. Sunday they were trying over and over to knock the Raiders out with one punch and it wasn't working.

The drive that Bryant scored on was a drive that was nothing but short throws letting the receivers making guys miss or using their speed after the catch. Nothing long. Ball was out fast and Ben wasn't even thinking he was just snapping and throwing. Boom they drive right down the field and score on a receiver making guys miss tackles.

The next drive they go away from it and end up third and long by bad play calling & bad decisions. Down goes the QB.

Patriots don't make those mistakes. That's why they are better. They don't beat themselves.

We have star receivers on this team let them take the hits. They are younger. Nothing but good can happen.

Sometimes I don't know if the Steelers know who they are. After a blocked punt and they have the ball at the Raiders 40 yrd line they come out and run two straight times in heavy set and gain nothing.

Next drive they are on their own 10 yard line and they come out in shotgun? Who are you. I know you need to be balanced but damn. It makes you scratch your head.

All that said sorry for the book but watching the pats play. Its not a mystery or accident. They are taking advantage of todays game and building around just that.