Shamarko officially a wasted pick

[hook]

Just add another bust to the ever growing list of draft busts under Tombert.

 

[stillwright]

Yep ...another 4th round bust. I wonder if any other team has 4th round busts?

 

[Vader]

Now there's an argument I can agree with Vader. I yield to your opinions and will admit to being one of those Gay critics of the past. My point is simply that it is possible, though not promising, that Thomas may pan out yet. Our problem is that in the mean time we got nuthin' right now to fill that gap except an average journeyman. Hell of a step down from days past for that position. I'd almost be willing to see how Golden could do if the waver wire is empty.

Thomas may turnout to be a late bloomer. My issue is that late bloomers can't be depended on while blooming. Harrison was cut several times. But even if they knew he was going to turnout great they still couldn't rely on him the first 5 years. I blame Tombert for not recognizing the situation and dealing with it. Troy was going down hill a few years before he retired.

I think the overall problem is that they can't draft defense worth a crap. Tomlin has this hybrid 3-4/4-3 tampa 2 in his head and has been drafting those type players for years. It's seems almost schizophrenic at times because they want to use the 3-4 but Tomlin can't get away from his old upbringing in the 4-3.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Or, when Cowher left, Colbert received more input in the draft/personnel matters. Coming from a team that ran a 4-3, he was more in touch/more comfortable with those type of players. Without Cowher around to hold his hand/steer him in the right direction, he began drafting the type of player that he was comfortable evaluating. Personally, I think it's both. They both came from 4-3 systems and they both would be more comfortable drafting that type of player.

The question is always asked, somewhat as if it is a rhetorical, "What changed when Cowher left?". Well, we know that the HC changed. (And that's the answer that most would stop at). But we also know that Colbert received more power (GM title), so it would stand to reason that he received more input into personnel and draft decisions.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Thomas may turnout to be a late bloomer. My issue is that late bloomers can't be depended on while blooming. Harrison was cut several times. But even if they knew he was going to turnout great they still couldn't rely on him the first 5 years. I blame Tombert for not recognizing the situation and dealing with it. Troy was going down hill a few years before he retired.

I think the overall problem is that they can't draft defense worth a crap. Tomlin has this hybrid 3-4/4-3 tampa 2 in his head and has been drafting those type players for years. It's seems almost schizophrenic at times because they want to use the 3-4 but Tomlin can't get away from his old upbringing in the 4-3.

I don't care what defense they run as long as it works. You want to run a 4-3 or a 1-11 go ahead, but the schizophrenic approach they've been doing for years of drafting one type of player for a different type of defense was noticed here long ago.

 

[ark steel]

He was their guy. You don't have projects penciled in as starters then have one old vet behind them. They haven't made a move to upgrade the position because they were depending on him. That's on the coaches. They knew Troy was leaving and Thomas was the guy. They didn't draft a safety and they didn't bring in a FA.

Traded up to get Shamarko, too.

 

[Vader]

Or, when Cowher left, Colbert received more input in the draft/personnel matters. Coming from a team that ran a 4-3, he was more in touch/more comfortable with those type of players. Without Cowher around to hold his hand/steer him in the right direction, he began drafting the type of player that he was comfortable evaluating. Personally, I think it's both. They both came from 4-3 systems and they both would be more comfortable drafting that type of player.

The question is always asked, somewhat as if it is a rhetorical, "What changed when Cowher left?". Well, we know that the HC changed. (And that's the answer that most would stop at). But we also know that Colbert received more power (GM title), so it would stand to reason that he received more input into personnel and draft decisions.

My only issue with that is Colbert had been drafting with Cowher 3-4 defensive players for 7 years before Tomlin was hired. You'd think he'd be more familiar with the 3-4 than the 4-3 since he had been away from it so long. It makes more sense to me that Tomlin changed the draft strategy because all he knew was the 4-3. Even in the first draft you see the influence of Tomlin's 4-3 with Timmons. Then you have a typical 3-4 LOLB in Woodley the 2nd round. It's almost like they are taking turns drafting LBs. Colbert taking the 3-4 players he is use to and Tomlin taking the smaller, faster, Derrick Brooks type LB he wants. It's just speculation but Colbert has always been a support guy not a guy that is going to put his stamp on anything.

Traded up to get Shamarko, too.

Very true.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Vader, I see where you're coming from. And I'm not saying that I disagree or agree. I see your thoughts on this as plausible. But, one thing bothers me about the "everything changed as soon as Tomlin got here; so it must be Tomlin's philosophy" line of thinking. Tomlin was a rookie HC when he got here. He wasn't an experienced HC with a proven philosophy or success as a HC in the past. I'm thinking that they told him that they would be sticking with the 3-4. And if they told him that, are you going to immediately turn the entire draft over to the guy? I mean sure, you feed him a bone with the first pick (Timmons), but you don't let him pick all of your defensive players until he has familiarity with the system. Well, if you're smart you don't.

So, in my mind that left Colbert, ARII and the scouts with the most power (in the division of power) when it came to the draft. At least until Tomlin had a couple of drafts under his belt. Then I would imagine that it became more equal. But, as you said, it's all speculation. The bottom line is that the drafts have not provided the type of defensive talent needed and other personnel decisions have been suspect also.

 

[stillwright]

Vader, I see where you're coming from. And I'm not saying that I disagree or agree. I see your thoughts on this as plausible. But, one thing bothers me about the "everything changed as soon as Tomlin got here; so it must be Tomlin's philosophy" line of thinking. Tomlin was a rookie HC when he got here. He wasn't an experienced HC with a proven philosophy or success as a HC in the past. I'm thinking that they told him that they would be sticking with the 3-4. And if they told him that, are you going to immediately turn the entire draft over to the guy? I mean sure, you feed him a bone with the first pick (Timmons), but you don't let him pick all of your defensive players until he has familiarity with the system. Well, if you're smart you don't.

So, in my mind that left Colbert, ARII and the scouts with the most power (in the division of power) when it came to the draft. At least until Tomlin had a couple of drafts under his belt. Then I would imagine that it became more equal. But, as you said, it's all speculation. The bottom line is that the drafts have not provided the type of defensive talent needed and other personnel decisions have been suspect also.

Also I don't see Dick wanting to stick around all these years and then being pushed out against his wishes without having any input in any of those selections either. I mean if posters on this site can see a different type of player being drafted you don't think Dick didn't either? Then he sticks around year after year knowing they are not drafting players to fit his system. HOF player/coach and doesn't have a major input? I don't see it.

 

[Ghost of Frenchy Fuqua]

Yep ...another 4th round bust. I wonder if any other team has 4th round busts?

A read a while ago that the Packers waived someone who was their third round paick in 2014.

 

[ark steel]

A read a while ago that the Packers waived someone who was their third round paick in 2014.

And the Bills just ditched a guy who was their 4th round pick 2 drafts ago.

 

[Coach]

2nd team behind Wil Allen

You could say the same for Archer

 

[hook]

And the Bills just ditched a guy who was their 4th round pick 2 drafts ago.

Yep, they had busts in their drafting too. But they saw the light and cut them. Us on the other hand keep them on the roster, even keep them starting because they are afraid to admit they made a mistake drafting them in the first place.

 

[slashsteel]

Yep, they had busts in their drafting too. But they saw the light and cut them. Us on the other hand keep them on the roster, even keep them starting because they are afraid to admit they made a mistake drafting them in the first place.

I think possibly somewhat....

it can be a oh this pick just needs a little more time mentality

just a little more time

just a little more time

thinking a "light" will come on

not realising it is a defective bulb

 

[Vader]

Vader, I see where you're coming from. And I'm not saying that I disagree or agree. I see your thoughts on this as plausible. But, one thing bothers me about the "everything changed as soon as Tomlin got here; so it must be Tomlin's philosophy" line of thinking. Tomlin was a rookie HC when he got here. He wasn't an experienced HC with a proven philosophy or success as a HC in the past. I'm thinking that they told him that they would be sticking with the 3-4. And if they told him that, are you going to immediately turn the entire draft over to the guy? I mean sure, you feed him a bone with the first pick (Timmons), but you don't let him pick all of your defensive players until he has familiarity with the system. Well, if you're smart you don't.

So, in my mind that left Colbert, ARII and the scouts with the most power (in the division of power) when it came to the draft. At least until Tomlin had a couple of drafts under his belt. Then I would imagine that it became more equal. But, as you said, it's all speculation. The bottom line is that the drafts have not provided the type of defensive talent needed and other personnel decisions have been suspect also.

I don't disagree with that. Early on Colbert and the staff probably had more input. But the past few drafts on defense have not worked out well at all.