Seattle - New England: Who Wins?

[ExUSAF]

*Patriots... if only because it will annoy the collective of 31 other NFL fanbases that the cheaters Belichick and Brady are being groomed to be the greatest Coach/QB pair in the history of the NFL. They will win this one and the next one to get 5, then retire at the pinnacle of the game. Then Rog in his infinite wisdom will work to rescind the NFL's requirement of a 5 year waiting period for Hall of Fame enshrinement so Belichick and Brady can be inducted immediately, with no other enshrinees inducted that year.

There will be parades and celebrations mandated at every NFL stadium to signify their ascendance to NFL Godhood - and their pictures will be erected at all stadiums.

Or - the Seahawks crush them, and can polish the *Pats AFC championship trophy with KY jelly and shove it up Belichick's ***.

Part B sounds good to me - I'd do a Pay Per View to see that one.

 

[Vader]

One ****** game and all of a sudden he's overrated? Nope. Wilson is a very effective qb in this league, I've already seen enough of him to think otherwise. Sure he plays with a great defense and run game, but I'm not gonna pretend that he's all of a sudden going to suck *** whenever the day comes when Seattle's defense comes back to Earth. Does he have a weak arm? No. Is he overy-innacurate? No. Does he have a history/reputation of choking/******** the bed? No. He's a very good quarterback

It isn't just the one ****** game. His entire game is based on the defense shutting down the other team. Just look at them early in the year when the defense was just good. They were 3-3 at one point because Wilson and the offense can't handle it when the defense isn't great. The defense had a down game again against KC and they lost 24-20. They had a stretch of 4 games where they won scoring 19, 19, 24, 17. And that counts defensive TDs. Wilson is able to pass against single coverage because teams stack the box for Lynch. He's over rated. Hell he didn't even pass for 3500 yards this year. They were 32nd in passing attempts this year and 30th in passing yards. He has it easy right now.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Wilson managed the hell out of those WRs... to the tune of 4 picks and could have been 5. Wilson is one of the most over rated QBs in the NFL. He has a great defense, special teams and running game. It a shame that an average QB like Wilson is going to win 2 SBs in his first 3 years while much better QBs like Ben sit at home.

Dumb argument. By your theory, Ben's prior stats and SB's are overrated b/c he was "simply a product of his defense"

Wilson has a passer rating of over 100 in 2 out of his 3 years in the league. Passes for over 63% completions while throwing less than 10 Int's per year. How in the hell is that average for a kid in his 3rd year in the league?!? And this is not even considering his running ability. It also doesn't mention that his WR corp is garbage.

He is freggin 10-0 against superbowl winning QB's. You dont get to that mark with only defense. And you DEFINITELY dont reach back to back SB's with only defense. Ask Mark Sanchez, Alex Smith, etc.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Lynch and Wilson's running will be the difference. Seahawks match up well against Pats. Gronk will be nullified.

 

[Vader]

Dumb argument. By your theory, Ben's prior stats and SB's are overrated b/c he was "simply a product of his defense"

Wilson has a passer rating of over 100 in 2 out of his 3 years in the league. Passes for over 63% completions while throwing less than 10 Int's per year. How in the hell is that average for a kid in his 3rd year in the league?!? And this is not even considering his running ability. It also doesn't mention that his WR corp is garbage.

He is freggin 10-0 against superbowl winning QB's. You dont get to that mark with only defense. And you DEFINITELY dont reach back to back SB's with only defense. Ask Mark Sanchez, Alex Smith, etc.

Dumb retort. Ben went 15-1 as a rookie QB. He came out passing during the 05' SB run. In the AFCC game against Denver ON THE ROAD Ben was 21 of 29 for 275 yards 2 TDs and 0 picks. But yea it was all the defense. Against Indy the game was over until the Steelers best RB fumbled the ball and Ben saved the season by tackling the guy. But yea the defense totally won that game while Ben was just along for the ride.... could you make any dumber of an argument? Again Seattle was 3-3 when the defense was just good. They NEED the defense to shut team totally down. If the other team scores more than 20 points they normally lose. They beat ONE team this year (Oakland) when they scored more than 20 points. So your dumb argument is even more exposed.

 

[Steelerfan]

Hate the Pats* but I don't give a damn. Looking forward to some great commercials though.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Dumb retort. Ben went 15-1 as a rookie QB. He came out passing during the 05' SB run. In the AFCC game against Denver ON THE ROAD Ben was 21 of 29 for 275 yards 2 TDs and 0 picks. But yea it was all the defense. Against Indy the game was over until the Steelers best RB fumbled the ball and Ben saved the season by tackling the guy. But yea the defense totally won that game while Ben was just along for the ride.... could you make any dumber of an argument? Again Seattle was 3-3 when the defense was just good. They NEED the defense to shut team totally down. If the other team scores more than 20 points they normally lose. They beat ONE team this year (Oakland) when they scored more than 20 points. So your dumb argument is even more exposed.

Bro, just stop it. Youre getting emotional and not using logic to prove anything.

BR07 first 3 playoff stats:

12TDs vs 13INTS, ~63% completion, 80 passer rating

Wilson first 3 playoff stats:
10TD's to 5INTs, ~60% completions, 95 passer rating.

You wanna tell me again who relied more on their defense for the win?

my point is-

Neither of these guys have *astounding* stats their first 3 playoffs appearances. BR07 has progressed into one of the elite QB's in the game. If Wilson progresses in the same manner, he will easily be THE best QB in the league behind Rodgers.

 

[Omar10213245]

It isn't just the one ****** game. His entire game is based on the defense shutting down the other team. Just look at them early in the year when the defense was just good. They were 3-3 at one point because Wilson and the offense can't handle it when the defense isn't great. The defense had a down game again against KC and they lost 24-20. They had a stretch of 4 games where they won scoring 19, 19, 24, 17. And that counts defensive TDs. Wilson is able to pass against single coverage because teams stack the box for Lynch. He's over rated. Hell he didn't even pass for 3500 yards this year. They were 32nd in passing attempts this year and 30th in passing yards. He has it easy right now.

That's all well and good, yes I submit that he doesn't have all that many pass attempts, but from what I see, he makes very good decisions in tight situations. He uses his feet well, can put very good touch on the ball, throws WR's open, can set up the screen well, inspires confidence in his offensive teammates to a high degree...need I go on? I can think of MANY teams over the last 20 seasons who had very strong defenses with young qb's who were given the reins and those qb's either **** the bed or just couldn't hang in the long run. I'm willing to bet that when Lynch leaves (probably this offseason), Wilson will continue to come up in the clutch and be a pain in the ***** of other NFC teams for a long time. Is he Aaron Rodgers, or even Ben? Probably not. But sorry, I just don't buy the "overrated" tag, doesn't pass the smell test for me.

 

[Omar10213245]

Lynch and Wilson's running will be the difference. Seahawks match up well against Pats. Gronk will be nullified.

I actually think Gronk is going to tear them up because they typically give up decent cushion from the line of scrimmage to about 10 yds out with the LB's when they're not blitzing. They're not going to want to stack the box too often because Brady is deadly and quick with those little bullshit 5 yd outs, and the pats have proven they don't mind taking an entire qtr to kill you by paper-cuts with that ****. Eventually, at some point later in the game, Gronkowski is gonna get free for some big gains.

 

[JupiterBnG]

The answer is "no one."

No one wins.

 

[Vader]

Bro, just stop it. Youre getting emotional and not using logic to prove anything.

BR07 first 3 playoff stats:

12TDs vs 13INTS, ~63% completion, 80 passer rating

Wilson first 3 playoff stats:
10TD's to 5INTs, ~60% completions, 95 passer rating.

You wanna tell me again who relied more on their defense for the win?

my point is-

Neither of these guys have *astounding* stats their first 3 playoffs appearances. BR07 has progressed into one of the elite QB's in the game. If Wilson progresses in the same manner, he will easily be THE best QB in the league behind Rodgers.

I'm not your Bro. You're the one that is emotionally invested in this because you can't make a cogent point with out the "Dumb" ****. Which is typical for you. He has better stats simply because of the players around him. Bettis was on his last legs when Ben won the SB... hell it was his last game. Ben had a good defense in 05' but show me ONE game where Ben had 4 int. that they won in the playoffs. You can't.

As for the idea that Wilson makes good decision in tight situations that's pure bullshit. The 2 pt. conv. was a horrible decision even if it worked out. He threw up a duck that should have been picked.. again. He threw another pick into the chest of Dix and the guy dropped it. The fact is that Seattle can't win if the defense gives up over 20 points... CAN'T. The Steelers won 2 of 3 playoff games in 08' giving up over 20 points.

 

[Vader]

That's all well and good, yes I submit that he doesn't have all that many pass attempts, but from what I see, he makes very good decisions in tight situations. He uses his feet well, can put very good touch on the ball, throws WR's open, can set up the screen well, inspires confidence in his offensive teammates to a high degree...need I go on? I can think of MANY teams over the last 20 seasons who had very strong defenses with young qb's who were given the reins and those qb's either **** the bed or just couldn't hang in the long run. I'm willing to bet that when Lynch leaves (probably this offseason), Wilson will continue to come up in the clutch and be a pain in the ***** of other NFC teams for a long time. Is he Aaron Rodgers, or even Ben? Probably not. But sorry, I just don't buy the "overrated" tag, doesn't pass the smell test for me.

We'll agree to disagree. In a few years when the defense goes down and he can't hide behind Lynch and the defense we'll see.

 

[Omar10213245]

We'll agree to disagree. In a few years when the defense goes down and he can't hide behind Lynch and the defense we'll see.

Fair enough my friend. *clinks beer mugs with Vader*

 

[deljzc]

I'm leaning towards New England and wish I could have gotten in on the early NE +2 1/2 line like a lot of wise guys did.

The line now is down to a pick'em. I'm not sure a Super Bowl was ever a pick'em in Vegas (none that I can remember) so that's a first.

I just have a feeling this is New England's year and Seattle's bid to go back-to-back falls a bit short. Just my gut talking. Of course I picked Denver last season so take this as you will. I don't gamble because I lose.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

I'm not your Bro. You're the one that is emotionally invested in this because you can't make a cogent point with out the "Dumb" ****. Which is typical for you. He has better stats simply because of the players around him. Bettis was on his last legs when Ben won the SB... hell it was his last game. Ben had a good defense in 05' but show me ONE game where Ben had 4 int. that they won in the playoffs. You can't.

As for the idea that Wilson makes good decision in tight situations that's pure bullshit. The 2 pt. conv. was a horrible decision even if it worked out. He threw up a duck that should have been picked.. again. He threw another pick into the chest of Dix and the guy dropped it. The fact is that Seattle can't win if the defense gives up over 20 points... CAN'T. The Steelers won 2 of 3 playoff games in 08' giving up over 20 points.

Damn. You sure told me. Bro. lol.

By dumb ****- are you referring to the STATS that I provided? They're these numbers that people usually present to strengthen an argument. You give 0 stats. In fact, half the stuff you provide is your own commentary. The Seahawks dont win if the Defense allows more than 20 points?!? What was the final score of their last 2 games? Cant even take 3 seconds to Google before you make idiotic claims?

Wilson had a terrible game on Sunday and threw for INTs. The most in his entire collegiate/professional career. Yet he still is the owner of a 10 td vs 5int stat line in the playoffs. He is still sporting a >95 passer rating. Ben may never have had a 4 INT game, but his earlier playoff stats pale in comparison. But it didnt matter then b/c Ben would do what it took to WIN- which is what matters. Exactly what RW is doing

A great defense helps out a ton- everyone will admit that. But a great defense alone doesnt get you back to the SB. Hell, a great defense barely will get you in the playoff's (Rams, etc.)

 

[Vader]

Damn. You sure told me. Bro. lol.

By dumb ****- are you referring to the STATS that I provided? They're these numbers that people usually present to strengthen an argument. You give 0 stats. In fact, half the stuff you provide is your own commentary. The Seahawks dont win if the Defense allows more than 20 points?!? What was the final score of their last 2 games? Cant even take 3 seconds to Google before you make idiotic claims?

Wilson had a terrible game on Sunday and threw for INTs. The most in his entire collegiate/professional career. Yet he still is the owner of a 10 td vs 5int stat line in the playoffs. He is still sporting a >95 passer rating. Ben may never have had a 4 INT game, but his earlier playoff stats pale in comparison. But it didnt matter then b/c Ben would do what it took to WIN- which is what matters. Exactly what RW is doing

A great defense helps out a ton- everyone will admit that. But a great defense alone doesnt get you back to the SB. Hell, a great defense barely will get you in the playoff's (Rams, etc.)

Can you not read little sis? The "dumb" that I was referring to is your childish attempt to degrade my argument by calling it "dumb". Which is the typical response of someone with low intelligence. You can't make a cogent point so you go to the typical "dat was dumb" bullshit.

Dumb argument.

Also if defense can't get you to the SB then how in the hell is Wilson in the SB this year? Without that defense his 4 ints would have sunk his ***. You think GB could have withstood 4 picks from Rodgers while Wilson only threw 2? You've also narrowed it to just the defense when I SPECIFICALLY said the defense AND the running game help him out. Ben had a worn out Bettis and a bunch of nobodies for years and still won 2 SBs. The fact is Wilson isn't doing what it takes to win... he is riding the back of a good RB, STs and defense. With any one of those just a little down he isn't in the SB this year.

Also you obviously didn't take the time to look up ****. Their first game they gave up 17 points to Carolina. So you're idiotic comments are stupid as hell. Why don't you take your own advice and stop posting ignorant and foolish comments?

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Can you not read little sis? The "dumb" that I was referring to is your childish attempt to degrade my argument by calling it "dumb". Which is the typical response of someone with low intelligence. You can't make a cogent point so you go to the typical "dat was dumb" bullshit.



Also if defense can't get you to the SB then how in the hell is Wilson in the SB this year? Without that defense his 4 ints would have sunk his ***. You think GB could have withstood 4 picks from Rodgers while Wilson only threw 2? You've also narrowed it to just the defense when I SPECIFICALLY said the defense AND the running game help him out. Ben had a worn out Bettis and a bunch of nobodies for years and still won 2 SBs. The fact is Wilson isn't doing what it takes to win... he is riding the back of a good RB, STs and defense. With any one of those just a little down he isn't in the SB this year.

Also you obviously didn't take the time to look up ****. Their first game they gave up 17 points to Carolina. So you're idiotic comments are stupid as hell. Why don't you take your own advice and stop posting ignorant and foolish comments?

NOBODIES?!?! lol

A prime Hines Ward? A prime Plax? A prime Heath Miller? A prime Santonio Holmes? A 1500 yard rushing Willie Parker?

Yep. A whole bunch of nobodies. I would take Marshawn Lynch over ALL of them! lol lol lol.

Wilson is doing the same exact stuff Ben was doing his first 3 years (even at a slightly better clip).

P.S. Go back to google. The hawks have scored 31 & 28 points their last 2 games. Refuting your idiotic point that "THEY CANT WIN IF THE DEFENSE DOESNT HOLD THEM TO 20!!!". Furthermore, Wilson led offenses have averaged >25 points in each of his playoff appearance. But continue making up your pretend stats- its funny to me.

 

[Vader]

NOBODIES?!?! lol

A prime Hines Ward? A prime Plax? A prime Heath Miller? A prime Santonio Holmes? A 1500 yard rushing Willie Parker?

Yep. A whole bunch of nobodies. I would take Marshawn Lynch over ALL of them! lol lol lol.

Wilson is doing the same exact stuff Ben was doing his first 3 years (even at a slightly better clip).

P.S. Go back to google. The hawks have scored 31 & 28 points their last 2 games. Refuting your idiotic point that "THEY CANT WIN IF THE DEFENSE DOESNT HOLD THEM TO 20!!!". Furthermore, Wilson has average close 28 points in each of playoff appearance. But continue making up your pretend stats- its funny to me.

What are you 5? God you can't be this ******* stupid. They can't win if the defense gives up OVER 20 points. You had to know I was talking about the defense because it was my main point. Damn you need to get off the crack and learn to ******* read. You also knew that I was talking about RB NOT WR, OL, TE etc... But you can't defend your point so you come up with stupid statements like this. Damn son get some help.

 

[Vader]

I also see that you can't even make a point without help from pictures. Typical of someone that has low intelligence and an overall inability to read.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

What are you 5? God you can't be this ******* stupid. They can't win if the defense gives up OVER 20 points. You had to know I was talking about the defense because it was my main point. Damn you need to get off the crack and learn to ******* read. You also knew that I was talking about RB NOT WR, OL, TE etc... But you can't defend your point so you come up with stupid statements like this. Damn son get some help.

This is sad. Our public schools are failing us...

You say that they cannot win "if the defense gives up OVER 20 points". Which implies that the Seahawks struggle to score 20 points a game.

I then show you that their last couple of playoff games they have averaged 30 points. In his career, Wilson has averaged close to 28 points per playoff game. Meaning even if, say, the Carolina Panthers would have scored 20+, Wilson would have won the game. Again- what in the hell are you talking about?

Also- who in the hell just disregards WR's, OL's and TE's?!? You consider those guy's nobodies b/c they arent RB's? You think a RB magically fill's all of those voids? Adrian Peterson is one of the greatest RB's in the last 10 years, yet his offense still struggles.

But dont mind me and my silly logic. Because only an ignoramus would copy and paste a GIF to manifest the sheer stupidity of a fellow poster.

 

[Steel G]

Couple of minor things here. Ben only had 11 INTs through his first three playoff seasons, not 13. And Plax didn't help Ben win any SBs, that was Eli. As for Holmes, he stole Ben's SB MVP. Since the Steelers threw him out, he's done absolutely nothing but pout and get injured.

 

[Vader]

Couple of minor things here. Ben only had 11 INTs through his first three playoff seasons, not 13. And Plax didn't help Ben win any SBs, that was Eli. As for Holmes, he stole Ben's SB MVP. Since the Steelers threw him out, he's done absolutely nothing but pout and get injured.

Don't bother. He's just like a 5 year old that changes the subject and makes up stats as he goes. That's why he uses pictures... he hasn't figured out how to use his words yet. Maybe when he makes 2nd grade English?

He thinks the offense averaged 30 PPG the last two games... so he either didn't watch the games or he's just making **** up. Against GB the special teams scored 7 on a trick FG. Maybe he didn't see the 90 yard int. return against Carolina? Maybe he thinks Wilson plays defense as well? This is what happens when people spout bullshit without knowing what they are talking about.

The fact is that during the regular season they won ONE game while allowing over 20 points. They beat GB while allowing 22 after their STs scored a TD and they recovered an onside kick and they won in OT.

 

[Idioteque]

Wilson managed the hell out of those WRs... to the tune of 4 picks and could have been 5. Wilson is one of the most over rated QBs in the NFL. He has a great defense, special teams and running game. It a shame that an average QB like Wilson is going to win 2 SBs in his first 3 years while much better QBs like Ben sit at home.

That's the thing, though. There are only so many good NFL QBs. And by good, I'm not talking about the Kerry Collins and Marc Bulger and Jon Kitna and Andy Dalton and Matt Ryan types, just good enough to start for awhile. In my estimation, only about 4-6 QBs at a time are good enough to be considered game-changers, because QB mistakes matter more than QB successes. (An INT is worse than a 40-yard pass is good, etc.)

Wilson creates big plays and doesn't turn the ball over, last week notwithstanding (27 INTs in 52 games otherwise). That's enough to be considered right outside the class of Rodgers & Co.

 

[Vader]

That's the thing, though. There are only so many good NFL QBs. And by good, I'm not talking about the Kerry Collins and Marc Bulger and Jon Kitna and Andy Dalton and Matt Ryan types, just good enough to start for awhile. In my estimation, only about 4-6 QBs at a time are good enough to be considered game-changers, because QB mistakes matter more than QB successes. (An INT is worse than a 40-yard pass is good, etc.)

Wilson creates big plays and doesn't turn the ball over, last week notwithstanding (27 INTs in 52 games otherwise). That's enough to be considered right outside the class of Rodgers & Co.

I'm not saying Wilson is a horrible QB. But because of the running game, special teams and defense he is almost never put in a position where he has to be the man. Again, they are 3-3 this year when the defense is just good. Hardly Rodgers category. The reason he threw 4 picks against GB is because GB shut down Lynch a few times and forced him to throw. When Lynch got going GB was toast. Remember this is the guy that had fewer passes than anybody in the league this year. They play Dallas at home this year. They are in a dog fight because their defense can't stop Murray. They put the ball in Wilson's hands and only give Lynch 10 carries. Wilson goes 14 of 28 for 126 yards 0 Tds 1 int. When you take away the running game and move the ball on their defense Wilson isn't going to win to many games.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

I'm not saying Wilson is a horrible QB. But because of the running game, special teams and defense he is almost never put in a position where he has to be the man. Again, they are 3-3 this year when the defense is just good. Hardly Rodgers category. The reason he threw 4 picks against GB is because GB shut down Lynch a few times and forced him to throw. When Lynch got going GB was toast. Remember this is the guy that had fewer passes than anybody in the league this year. They play Dallas at home this year. They are in a dog fight because their defense can't stop Murray. They put the ball in Wilson's hands and only give Lynch 10 carries. Wilson goes 14 of 28 for 126 yards 0 Tds 1 int. When you take away the running game and move the ball on their defense Wilson isn't going to win to many games.

Take a look at Wilson's top WR corp:

Doug Baldwin- UDFA
Jermaine Kearse- UDFA

I dont care what you say, that is not an ideal QB for any situation. Despite your sophomoric name calling, i understand your point.

He doesnt HAVE to put the ball up 30+ times a game to win- because of the defense. I agree.

But that has NOTHING to do with his ability to be efficient. It has nothing to do with his ability to make good decisions and to take care of the ball. Sanchez comes to mind. Even Alex Smith, the king of efficiency and the great defense/RB combo, his numbers pale in comparison to the younger year Wilson.

For example- Ben and Brady had great defenses their first 3 years in the league:

Brady's first 3 years: 10,227 yards, 62%, 69TD vs. 38INTs, 86 rating
Ben's first 3 years: 8519 yards, 63%, 52TDs vs 43INTs, 91 rating (Ben missed about 4 games)

Russ' first 3 years: 10,150, 63%, 72TDs vs 26INTs, 99 rating

But youre telling me he is doesnt even deserve to be in the discussion?