Paterno's wins restored. Penn state cleared

[Troglodyte]

What would you do if you were the dude that saw the rape in the shower, and after you reported it, you realized nothing was done about it and Jerry still was having his "hide the sausage" sessions?

Reporting it is calling 9-1-1. McQuery told his dad and then his boss. Big difference.

I feel bad for anyone to witness what he did, but I find he disingenuous that he thought you could tell someone else about a crime and then they could take care of getting the police involved.

 

[FordFairLane]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/paterno-told-penn-state-screwed-mcqueary-article-1.1411596

See the problem here is when you hear about this case the only name that sticks out is Joe Paterno so when we all agree Penn State messed up the problem is the blame fell on Joe. Joe Paterno was not the decision maker in this, this was not 4th and goal from the 1 and he decides to kick the field goal. This was an adminstration screw up not a Joe Paterno screw up. What Paterno thought though was McQueary would be the scapegoat and told him to cover his butt (no pun intended) because the administration wouldn't take the fall. Of course when a dying, old and half senile Joe Paterno was sitting there to try to pin things on, bam fired. And the media fell for it hook line and sinker. Now, the truth has come out that Paterno did what he was supposed to do but the higher powers dropped the ball then blamed Paterno for their screw up.

I just hope Paterno can look down from above and see his statue go back to where it belongs one day.

 

[Steelerfan81]

I don't see how stripping someone of an on field act was a punishment for a criminal situation.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

This nauseates me. They took a strong stand against child abuse, and against looking the other way and sweeping child abuse under the rug, and now they are walking it all back, piece by piece. Like it never even happened. Heartbreaking.

This did nothing of the sort. Sandusky is in jail and the Penn State head of police is still awaiting trial. The only thing this did was remove the penalty to a football team that had nothing to do with it.

This was never a sports issue. The media made it that because Paterno gets page clicks and the headline of "Penn State administrator and state agencies may not have handled an investigation properly" does not.

 

[AggieSteel]

This did nothing of the sort. Sandusky is in jail and the Penn State head of police is still awaiting trial. The only thing this did was remove the penalty to a football team that had nothing to do with it.

This was never a sports issue. The media made it that because Paterno gets page clicks and the headline of "Penn State administrator and state agencies may not have handled an investigation properly" does not.

Pretty much. And the sheep people of America, many of whom would tell you that many other stories they tell on the news are bullshit, almost all bought it hook line and sinker.

 

[stillwright]

So if they covered it up to protect their football program doesn't that make it a football issue? That's what happened right? Or didnt it happen that way? Paterno knew nothing? Sandusky's early retirement was actually that. He wasn't forced into retirement while at the peek of his career. ...ok. Gotcha.

 

[AggieSteel]

So if they covered it up to protect their football program doesn't that make it a football issue? That's what happened right? Or didnt it happen that way? Paterno knew nothing? Sandusky's early retirement was actually that. He wasn't forced into retirement while at the peek of his career. ...ok. Gotcha.

Anyone who has even the slightest bit of a clue in life, which I'm sure Paterno and the PSU administration did, knows that if you get out in front of a criminal scandal in your organization and distance yourself from it, you're better off in the end. I can't possibly believe that anyone thought it was in the best interest of the football program to simply "cover it up". Those guys are smart enough to understand that, if they were really covering something up, then the chickens would come home to roost eventually. It just doesn't smell right, but it's the easy explanation when you simply don't want to actually think about it.

 

[oneforthebus]

This was never a sports issue. The media made it that because Paterno gets page clicks and the headline of "Penn State administrator and state agencies may not have handled an investigation properly" does not.

The head football coach knew that one of his former assistants was molesting a kid in his football team's locker room. He did what was the minimum legally required of him, which was to report it to his supervisor. Which in this case is a joke...Curley was no more Paterno's "supervisor" then I am and everybody knows it. Neither he nor McQueary ever followed up to see what was being done about it. ALL of them knew that Jerry Sandusky interacted with kids on a daily basis. NONE of them did a damn thing about it. I don't care what anyone says, they are all cupable for every single boy that was raped after that day.

I'll go further and say the reason Sandusky never got the head coaching job that everyone believed he was in line for, was that Paterno and others knew about his penchant for little boys well before this incident. If anyone's ever read the entire story of Sandusky's multiple brushes with being caught, it's almost impossible that Paterno and others had no suspicions about him. Yet they let him use their football program and football facilities to lure more victims in for years.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

In Paterno’s own awful words: “He (McQueary) had seen a person, an older person, fondling a young boy. I don’t know what you would call it, but it was of a sexual nature…I didn’t want to interfere with their weekends, (so) either Saturday or Monday, I talked to my boss, Tim Curley, by phone, saying, ‘Hey we got a problem’ and I explained the problem to him.”

McQueary went to Paterno early the next morning. Paterno was scheduled to be at an event in Pittsburgh that day and left for the airport. after talking with McQueary. Paterno had advised McQueary to talk to the athletic director and the campus police. When Paterno returned, he did call the AD and the head of police, Schultz, himself. They then set up interviews with McQueary.

People think this was a black and white issue, that McQueary showed up and said he saw a rape in progress and then nobody did anything. The complication is McQueary has still never gotten his story straight.

The reason Paterno was cleared by the Attorney General is because his version of what McQueary told him matched what McQueary told the AG he had told Paterno, basically, not much. McQueary said he was embarrassed to give details to Paterno and was vague. Paterno had no first hand information and he set up meetings with McQueary and the proper authorities. Paterno followed the PSU and state of PA procedure for reporting.

That is why the wins are restored and sanctions lifted. Because now that the outrage has ended and people look at what actually happened, it doesn't match up with what the media was saying.


Schultz (head of campus police) and Curly (athletic director) are still awaiting trial. McQueary told the AG that he gave them details of what he saw and The AG charged them because their version of events did not match McQueary's version.

Once again, the issue is what McQueary actually saw. Schultz turned over all emails and his personal hand written notes of the meeting. If they find that McQueary told them he saw a sexual assault and they did nothing then they will go to jail. But if it is determined that once again, McQueary was vague and unsure of what he saw then they will likely be found not guilty.

It is still unclear what Schultz actually did after talking to McQueary. It's known he informed the Second Mile, who are designated as mandatory reporters. DId Schultz also contact state agencies? I guess we'll find out at his trial.

It should be noted that Sandusky was found not guilty of the major charge of rape or sexual abuse for the shower incident involving victim #2. This was the only incident on the PSU campus and victim 2, who has since been identified, still insists he was not assaulted. The jury asked to have McQueary's testimony read back to them and they came back only with a guilty verdict of the minor charge (i believe) child endangerment, or something along those lines.

Once again, even at trial, McQueary was vague and unsure of what he saw. His story changed many times as well. One version of his story would have required him seeing through a wall

Sandusky is in jail. PSU President Spanier was fired, Schultz and Curley are on trial. Board of Trustee members have been voted out by alumni. If anybody did something wrong on the PSU side, it was them and they will have their day in court.

Punishing the football team never made sense. Plus, documents now prove that the NCAA essentially blackmailed PSU into agreeing to the sanctions. The NCAA wanted this agreement because they don't want more details of their shady operation coming to light.

 

[oneforthebus]

The reason Paterno was cleared by the Attorney General is because his version of what McQueary told him matched what McQueary told the AG he had told Paterno, basically, not much. McQueary said he was embarrassed to give details to Paterno and was vague. Paterno had no first hand information and he set up meetings with McQueary and the proper authorities. Paterno followed the PSU and state of PA procedure for reporting.

That is why the wins are restored and sanctions lifted. Because now that the outrage has ended and people look at what actually happened, it doesn't match up with what the media was saying.

The wins were restored to save the NCAA a lengthy and expensive legal battle.

No one really disputes that Paterno did the minimum that was legally required of him.

Imagine that was your little boy in that locker room with Sandusky, or maybe your little boy was his next victim. You think Paterno did enough? Really? I don't, and never will. Who cares if Paterno knew it was rape or thought it was "something of a sexual nature" (his own words)? Does it really matter?

 

[POP]

See.. IF those things were the case, which 99% of the country believes, then the outrage is completely understandable.

But it really just seems way too far-fetched for me. The way more likely scenario is that McQueary never actually saw sex, so he never said he saw sex until years later when he was getting pressure from detectives, so nobody else really knew what Sandusky was. They probaby just thought he had boundary issues because he loves kids so much. McQueary's dad and the doctor to whom he told the story were both mandatory reporters and did nothing with the info Mike gave them.. So you're telling me EVERYBODY McQueary came in contact with, most of whom have sterling reputations, is some ruthless pedophile enabler, OR that he was so unsure of what he saw that he didn't actually tell anyone he saw a crime occur?

Come on people, think beyond the PC pitchfork mentality and try to be rational

No, there are some assumptions above that I do not agree with. I never assumed he told everyone he knew about what happened in the shower; I think, like most of us if we were part of an immense institution, we would tell our boss and let him decide how to handle it, since it is such an over-the-top, potentially damaging issue. Most wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole, other than to tell the boss and let him handle it. Joepa admitted (I heard him with my own ears) say he "should have done more" once he knew something went down. If he admits it, I don't know what else there is to talk about.

 

[POP]

Reporting it is calling 9-1-1. McQuery told his dad and then his boss. Big difference.

I feel bad for anyone to witness what he did, but I find he disingenuous that he thought you could tell someone else about a crime and then they could take care of getting the police involved.

He obviously knew he wasn't the one to make the decision over what to do; it was much bigger than his pay grade and he knew it. The issue is what did Joepa do after he was at least some what aware over what potentially happened. For him to admit, "I should have done more" says a lot to me.

 

[oneforthebus]

Let's not forget, here is evidence that Paterno was involved in the decision not to go to the police....

'In 2001, after then-grad assistant Mike McQueary told coach Joe Paterno, vice president Gary Schultz and athletic director Tim Curley about Sandusky abusing a boy in the showers of the Penn State locker room, the officials hatched a plan to turn Sandusky over to the authorities. According to the CNN report, the plan was detailed in an email dated Feb. 26, 2001.

On Feb. 27, Curley sent the following email to Schultz and PSU president Graham Spanier that, according to CNN, throws everything we thought we knew about Penn State football on its plain white helmet and signature black shoes.

"After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps," Curley's email read. "I am having trouble with going to everyone but the person involved. I would be more comfortable meeting with the person and tell them about the information we received and tell them we are aware of the first situation." '

 

[POP]

The wins were restored to save the NCAA a lengthy and expensive legal battle.

No one really disputes that Paterno did the minimum that was legally required of him.

Imagine that was your little boy in that locker room with Sandusky, or maybe your little boy was his next victim. You think Paterno did enough? Really? I don't, and never will. Who cares if Paterno knew it was rape or thought it was "something of a sexual nature" (his own words)? Does it really matter?

Of course it doesn't matter. Joepa saw this for what it was: a potentially colossal PR nightmare that could give his program two massive black eyes. But regardless of the potential PR bomb, sometimes you must do the right thing, even if you know it could give your brand a kick to the balls. Had Joepa done the right thing all along - and reported this to the authorities - it would have been a big story, and the rep of his brand would be dinged, but in a short time, it wouldn't be such a big story and the rep of the program wouldn't have been hit much. A story of "assist coach was raping kids, got caught and is now in jail" is one thing. But a story of "major university tries to cover up pedophile" is a much bigger deal, and that's what it turned into. You know what they say: The cover up is usually worse than the original infraction/crime."

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

So if they covered it up to protect their football program doesn't that make it a football issue? That's what happened right? Or didnt it happen that way? Paterno knew nothing? Sandusky's early retirement was actually that. He wasn't forced into retirement while at the peek of his career. ...ok. Gotcha.

How would a cover up help the program? Sandusky was already retired. Why would anybody at Penn State stick their neck out to cover up for a retired coach?

If there was a cover up then Penn State would have destroyed the emails and notes. They would not have notified the Second Mile. They would not have cooperated with the investigation. They would not have paid for the Freeh report.

The Freeh Report concluded that Sandusky's retirement had nothing to do with any allegations. He had been cleared by the state of PA, so it was a non-issue at that time. He was technically a state employee and took advantage of some sort of buyout retirement deal that many other state employees took at that time.

Did Penn State police botch an investigation? Maybe. That will come out at Schultz's trial. Was there a cover up? No.

It also has to be noted that PSU police are not rent a cops. Per state law, the PSU campus has enough population that they must have a real police force and not just security. They may have botched it, but they were the proper authorities.

 

[POP]

How would a cover up help the program? Sandusky was already retired. Why would anybody at Penn State stick their neck out to cover up for a retired coach?

If there was a cover up then Penn State would have destroyed the emails and notes. They would not have notified the Second Mile. They would not have cooperated with the investigation. They would not have paid for the Freeh report.

The Freeh Report concluded that Sandusky's retirement had nothing to do with any allegations. He had been cleared by the state of PA, so it was a non-issue at that time. He was technically a state employee and took advantage of some sort of buyout retirement deal that many other state employees took at that time.

Did Penn State police botch an investigation? Maybe. That will come out at Schultz's trial. Was there a cover up? No.

It also has to be noted that PSU police are not rent a cops. Per state law, the PSU campus has enough population that they must have a real police force and not just security. They may have botched it, but they were the proper authorities.

A simple botching? You can't be serious. You can't possibly believe that is the full explanation. If the cops "botched" it they were told to do so by powerful people. Please.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

"After giving it more thought and talking it over with Joe yesterday, I am uncomfortable with what we agreed were the next steps," Curley's email read. "I am having trouble with going to everyone but the person involved. I would be more comfortable meeting with the person and tell them about the information we received and tell them we are aware of the first situation." '

Where does that say Paterno wanted them to not go to the police?

Based on that email, what did Joe want done?

That quote means whatever the reader wants it to mean. You don't know "what we agreed were the next steps," And you don't know what Joe's opinion of those steps were.

The only fact that come out of that email is that Curly apparently felt he should inform Sandusky of the situation when others involved did not.

 

[SteelerFan448]

The wins never should have been stripped, but now that they have been returned, it has been an unpleasant reminder of the weird culture they have up there in State College.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

A simple botching? You can't be serious. You can't possibly believe that is the full explanation. If the cops "botched" it they were told to do so by powerful people. Please.

I agree with that. There is no full explanation yet. Which powerful people made the decision? Was it Spanier? Schultz? A state agency? Once again, not a sports issue.

It is still unknown exactly what McQueary told them and it's not completely known what actions were taken after they talked to McQueary. That is why Schultz and Curley are on criminal trial.

Penn State was not cleared. It's still ongoing. The only thing that happened here is the football team was cleared. No sports rules were violated. NCAA only has jurisdiction over sports rules. It never made sense to punish sports teams for a criminal matter unrelated to play on the field.

 

[stillwright]

If it was your kid in the shower with Sandusky do you think Penn State did enough? Anyone who answers yes is either lying or an idiot. Period.

 

[Troglodyte]

If it was your kid in the shower with Sandusky do you think Penn State did enough? Anyone who answers yes is either lying or an idiot. Period.

Sure, but every official on the Penn State campus could have gone to the police and it wouldn't have mattered if McQuery did not.

 

[steel shinin]

How anyone can sit here and try and rationalize why these wins mean anything in the big picture of this scandal is still sickening. People can try all they want to convince themselves all they want as far as what Paterno knew or didn't know. The casual nature in which he handled what was made public that he knew tells me enough. He knew. He knew before 2001 probably. They turned their heads to it. Paterno said on many occasions that he would have wanted to keep Sandusky on staff rather than accept his "retirement". The level of terrifying and calculated behavior that Sandusky exhibited and the means he went about it is bigger than football. To try and compare this situation to booster scandals or recruitment violations is missing the point. Rapes and assaults get covered up all the time. Especially in collegiate environments......football programs specifically. But to this level? With kids involved? With a systematic pattern of abuse.......over 30+ years. Heads turned. There are a lot of people at fault here who failed these victims but Penn State did just as much as anyone else. The individuals....Spanier, Schultz, Curley and Paterno.......yes. But that reflects on the University as well. It may not be all the way fair but if Joe Paterno coached all these years KNOWINGLY aware that there was even a small chance that Sandusky was a child molester then Joe Paterno's record is obviously tainted. Feeling bad for the players who vacating those wins would effect is really ridiculous when you consider that there were kids being raped and molested during those wins as well. Who gives a **** about the wins in that scenario. Really.

 

[oneforthebus]

I agree with that. There is no full explanation yet. Which powerful people made the decision? Was it Spanier? Schultz? A state agency? Once again, not a sports issue.

It is still unknown exactly what McQueary told them and it's not completely known what actions were taken after they talked to McQueary. That is why Schultz and Curley are on criminal trial.

Penn State was not cleared. It's still ongoing. The only thing that happened here is the football team was cleared. No sports rules were violated. NCAA only has jurisdiction over sports rules. It never made sense to punish sports teams for a criminal matter unrelated to play on the field.

We will never know the full truth. They weren't dumb enough to spell it out word for word in an email, and Paterno didn't use email and isn't here to answer questions. We all have our own interpretation of what is known. I think for anyone who isn't biased towards exonerating Joe, it's pretty clear that at a minimum he washed his hands of it and looked the other way, knowing that Sandusky continued to spend time with children, and it's highly possible (I would say likely) that he actively conspired to cover it up.

 

[oneforthebus]

Sure, but every official on the Penn State campus could have gone to the police and it wouldn't have mattered if McQuery did not.

That is ridiculous. Of course if Curley had reported it to police the first thing they would have done would be interview McQueary. They would have interviewed Sandusky. Sheesh, seeing that guy in a 5 minute TV interview was all most people needed to know he was guilty as hell. They would have found out who the boy was, questioned him and informed his parents of the allegations.

 

[Troglodyte]

That is ridiculous. Of course if Curley had reported it to police the first thing they would have done would be interview McQueary. They would have interviewed Sandusky.

They would have questioned McQuery but what he said, if anything, would determine if they questioned Sandusky. Police don't go on gossip. They also wouldn't like that McQuery had already discussed it with several people.