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Agreed. And to further this point... from my vantage point, both of these things are more disrespectful to the military than anything Colin Kaepernick or his friends have ever done:
NFL’s Proposed National Anthem Rules: Penalties for Kneeling Being Considered
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Don't forget the Baltimorons yelling 'OH' during "o, say did that star spangled banner..."
Agreed. And to further this point... from my vantage point, both of these things are more disrespectful to the military than anything Colin Kaepernick or his friends have ever done:
This post should be its own thread in the political forum. I'd like to hear an open discussion on it.
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I can't really get all that upset about the Memorial Day sale thing. Businesses across the country have Memorial Day sales. While I don't know it for a fact, I assume that the stuff sold would be for raising campaign funds. I feel pretty confident that Trump isn't the first and won't be the last to do it.
As far as the tweet, he started off well enough. Using a Memorial Day message to pimp your accomplishments is bad form, in my opinion. Would have been better if he had stopped at the word "today."
As far as the tweet, he started off well enough. Using a Memorial Day message to pimp your accomplishments is bad form, in my opinion. Would have been better if he had stopped at the word "today."
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And Dallas Stars games.. "Whose broad stripes and bright STARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
"O say does that STAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! spangled banner yet wave.."
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I say respect it enough to sing it right, or don't sing it at all, and certainly don't ***** about somebody else being disrespectful.
I agree.
And instead of the few examples of bad cops mistreating all colors being addressed. It is turned into another blacks are picked on campaign.
That is a real problem. A group of one race focusing in on their color instead of making it a group problem. (A lesser one statistically at that compared to other more important subjects that are never rallied around.)
How many races there is isn't odd just one gets discriminated against?
sorry all colors encounter racism.
Buy into what the media feeds you if you want to.
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I did. Made it a poll too.
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It's football, not politics. The owners should have shut this bullshit down last year. The more they carry this crap on the more it turns people off. So rock on,gain nothing and lose $$$$. I think the product already sucks. It's a shell of it's former self. It's overproduced crap that still delivers low quality because everyone is a spoiled little *****. The whole thing needs to go down a few pegs and get grounded. Try focusing on the sport itself and less side bullshit. All this crap is will come to a head when that CBA runs out.
The wife took an extra day off work and we went to the Rock and Roll HOF today.
I saw this:
I saw this:
The wife took an extra day off work and we went to the Rock and Roll HOF today.
I saw this:
Can't work on it now when some folks will go to their grave swearing there's "no problem". Of course, many of those same folks are slowly and willingly giving up their Constitutional rights to an authoritarian government.
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what exactly is the problem that needs to be worked on. Serious question.
1. Systematic inequality for minorities and women
2. Police shooting unarmed minorities (and some Caucasians too), while most mass shooters are captured without being killed.
3. Racism, bigotry and hatred (on all sides)
There's more, but, I'm going to assume that you won't agree with any of it since it doesn't affect you directly. Now, having been stopped by the police while jogging in my neighborhood for "looking like I was 'canvasing' the neighbors' homes", I'd say that doing just about anything "while black" is suspicious behavior nowadays. And, yes this was an isolated incident. So was the time Macy's manager followed me from the suit department to the shoe department and asked me how I'd be paying for my purchases ... just another "isolated incident". Of course there's no problems in this country and we shouldn't talk about any of them.
Now, those aren't the only problems. We also have:
- The fact that most of our children are being overburdened with school loans
- A trillion dollar deficit
- under trained and over worked police, firemen and emergency personnel
- Teachers who on average are the lowest paid educators in any developed country
I mean, take your pick. You don't have to address racial issues in order to recognize that there are problems in this country that need addressed. Look, I love the U.S. Spent 7 years serving in the U.S. Navy because I love my country. But, loving my country doesn't mean I have to turn a blind eye to the problems that we have. So, the whole "if you don't like it here, you can leave" **** doesn't fly with me. I'll continue to volunteer my time as a mentor to teenage males without father figures and donating time and money to a couple of different shelters in my area. Might not be much in light of all the problems I've identified, but, it's not sticking my head in the sand and acting like I don't see the problems. And, it's not acting like some butt hurt toddler because someone says something I don't agree with.
But then fixing the problem is a two-way street too.
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The wife took an extra day off work and we went to the Rock and Roll HOF today.
I saw this:
Pretty much the same thing Kanye said a few weeks ago and he was told to shut his damn mouth by the media and other celebs.
Totally agree. That's why I say talking about things is at least a start. And much better than actin like the problems don't exist.
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When it comes to the flag and anthem, i think intent is the main thing most people judge. I know I do. There are lots of rules with the flag. Technically, any article of clothing with the flag is against proper etiquette. So was Apollo Creed's trunks in Rocky. But very few would take exception because the intent is to celebrate the flag even if it goes against the rules.
Somebody in the stands who does not remove their hat or does not stand or talks on their phone during the anthem is annoying but most of us will chalk this up to ignorance or laziness, etc. and not as any intentional disrespect to the flag.
These players are intentionally disrespecting the flag/anthem. The worst part is when called out on it, they check off the list of things they claim to NOT be disrespecting. Cops, military, veterans, the country in general. That's what people associate with the flag/anthem.
So it begs the question, if you have no problem with any of those things then why is the protest during the anthem? To me, there are only 2 logical answers.
1. They are lying and they really do dislike cops, military, or America in general, or
2. They truly don't have anything against those things and they only do it during the anthem to get a rise out of people because they think that is the best way to be heard.
If 1 is true, then **** you.
If 2 is true, then you are wrong. You are ensuring the exact opposite result. Any valid point you may have will be lost on most people who will not get past what they view as intentionally insulting their heritage.
It is absurd to claim that the anthem is the only "platform" these players have to be heard. Just look at the last election for proof. Trump spent far less than any other candidate. He essentially used Twitter to bypass the media. Any of these players could do the same(unless they are a scrub with no followers).
Tweet your thoughts, organize a rally, raise money, talk to politicians. Write articles. Go on news shows as a guest and answer questions about your positions. All of those are effective ways to spread a message.
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BTW, If you think the NFL has no right to stop players from kneeling then you must also think that ABC had no right to cancel Roseanne's show for what she tweeted. Same situation, an employer disciplining an employee for speech. Nobody will say ABC had no right. They obviously do, and so does the NFL.
Nothing is effective if the message you are bringing doesnt want to be heard.. However you bring it will be ingnored..
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Appreciate the thoughtful response. We will not agree on the remedies here, and some of my thoughts are here in-line.
I was in the punk scene growing up and playing music. A lot of them were antiestablishment, and anti-government. They'd choose to not stand or turn their backs on the flag during the pledge, when they were forced to stand. So this form of protest had nothing to do with cops/military, and was strictly against the government, and societal norms as a whole.
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Your response to point 2 (which is the main point of contention with the protests) is to simply “prosecute the officers”
But Charles.. that’s not happening. That’s the WHOLE POINT of the protests. They get away with it damn near every time. The protestors want accountability for the officers so maybe it will deter this from happening in the future, but that accountability never comes. It’s not enough to just snarkily say “prosecute the officers!” And move on like nothing is wrong. That is *exactly* what’s wrong
And side note: really brushing off the student loan crisis as a “who cares” moment? Spoken like a true baby boomer or similar who has never had to experience this. Your generation could work a summer job to pay off school. Mine can’t pay off a week of university tuition with a whole summer of working. And a high school diploma only gets you nowhere in corporate America, and certainly doesn’t allow you more “professional” careers requiring specialized education. And if your family isn’t very well to do.. well guess what? You’re taking out loans. And lots of them. You may say “who cares” because all you see is how it affects the individual with the loan and you just want to immediately blame that person and shut down and move on. But the problem is that the student loan crisis affects the entire economy. The biggest generation of working people can’t afford to spend their paychecks or buy homes because wages haven’t gone up in decades (except for CEOs) and huge portions of their pay (that older generations never had to worry about anywhere close to this magnitude) are gone before we even see it. That affects every single industry, every business. Every day you see articles about a new company or industry that millennials are “killing” and it’s not because they don’t want to spend money. It’s because they can’t. Prior generations greed has set it up this way for them and now those same generations sit back and laugh and insult millennials for the financial struggles they currently go through. Prior generations could easily buy homes, raise families, stay out of debt, etc because wages were livable, income inequality wasn’t nearly what it is now, and healthcare, education, and real estate were reasonably affordable. Now none of these things are true anymore and guess who is bearing the brunt of it while your generation has already cleared those hurdles? Yep. So you might want to think twice before you chide a whole generation of young people who have way more economic obstacles in their way but are trying to live the American dream anyway like your generation was able to
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Certainly worth looking into whether or not officers who are acting illegally are not getting prosecuted. Is that the point of the protests? That's the big crisis in the black community? OK. Might be more effective if there weren't also riots and protests over legitimate police actions.
On the student loan thing - I didn't say "Who cares?, I said "So what?". There should be nothing remarkable about money coming due from a loan. Did you take out those loans expecting that someone else would pay for them? I'm not chiding an entire generation, just the people who don't think they should have to pay back their loans. You talk about prior generations' greed, and you are looking for a way out of loans that you took out. Too funny.
Do you think people listen when you wear pig socks to practice? Is that a way to start a conservation with respect from both parties ?
I have no idea the behind the decision to wear those socks. None. Still doesnt make it ok to ignore the issue..