Missed tackle report week 5

[Ike Kelly]

Okay using your data he still leads the team in missed tackles. My logic is fine Ike. Now only imagine how many more Davis would have missed had he played more in the defense. Let me know when you're done extrapolating...

I can assess based on what given facts are known. Extrapolating is what you do well, meaning to opine your view to fit your biased future conclusions.

You respond from a quote that was over a week ago when new data and situations have changed. So much for unbiased research. As for Davis, with situational changes he has primarily only played ST, maybe a dozen snaps last game. No defensive package snaps. Since his beginning role consisted of safety coverage and slot responsibilities with injuries to the DBs. As healthy bodies have returned or added (Gilbert). A. Burns has shown much promise which allows Will Gay to play his strongest position, the slot. Golden was brought in for the starting safety spot. Dangerfield, (3rd year player) who is playing well, is 1st backup. Davis (a rookie) is 2nd.

Davis's role has changed since the first couple weeks. It's laughable when you say he is being phased out. He is performing the rookie role expected when he started OTAs and before injuries. Let's bring this to a standard. Get the stats for Polamalu in his first year playing. He was learning and played much more and had more bad plays than good. That second and third year however....the rest is history. So patience is allowed for a 2nd round rookie.

As for missed tackles, yes he leads as of week six. 3/4 of the stats is from the first two games. To prove your point he needs to participate in more defensive snaps. Which probably won't happen unless more injuries occur because of his current role. For once look at what it means to run a offense/defense squad. It's the sum of the parts. Not one player.

As a reminder the starting safety is one behind in missed tackles. So by your viewpoint he should be benched for Dangerfield or Golden. That would be an ignorant decision. Although his taunting penalties could be factored in.


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[antdrewjosh]

I can assess based on what given facts are known. Extrapolating is what you do well, meaning to opine your view to fit your biased future conclusions.

You respond from a quote that was over a week ago when new data and situations have changed. So much for unbiased research. As for Davis, with situational changes he has primarily only played ST, maybe a dozen snaps last game. No defensive package snaps. Since his beginning role consisted of safety coverage and slot responsibilities with injuries to the DBs. As healthy bodies have returned or added (Gilbert). A. Burns has shown much promise which allows Will Gay to play his strongest position, the slot. Golden was brought in for the starting safety spot. Dangerfield, (3rd year player) who is playing well, is 1st backup. Davis (a rookie) is 2nd.

Davis's role has changed since the first couple weeks. It's laughable when you say he is being phased out. He is performing the rookie role expected when he started OTAs and before injuries. Let's bring this to a standard. Get the stats for Polamalu in his first year playing. He was learning and played much more and had more bad plays than good. That second and third year however....the rest is history. So patience is allowed for a 2nd round rookie.

As for missed tackles, yes he leads as of week six. 3/4 of the stats is from the first two games. To prove your point he needs to participate in more defensive snaps. Which probably won't happen unless more injuries occur because of his current role. For once look at what it means to run a offense/defense squad. It's the sum of the parts. Not one player.

As a reminder the starting safety is one behind in missed tackles. So by your viewpoint he should be benched for Dangerfield or Golden. That would be an ignorant decision. Although his taunting penalties could be factored in.


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[ark steel]

I can assess based on what given facts are known. Extrapolating is what you do well, meaning to opine your view to fit your biased future conclusions.

You respond from a quote that was over a week ago when new data and situations have changed. So much for unbiased research. As for Davis, with situational changes he has primarily only played ST, maybe a dozen snaps last game. No defensive package snaps. Since his beginning role consisted of safety coverage and slot responsibilities with injuries to the DBs. As healthy bodies have returned or added (Gilbert). A. Burns has shown much promise which allows Will Gay to play his strongest position, the slot. Golden was brought in for the starting safety spot. Dangerfield, (3rd year player) who is playing well, is 1st backup. Davis (a rookie) is 2nd.

Davis's role has changed since the first couple weeks. It's laughable when you say he is being phased out. He is performing the rookie role expected when he started OTAs and before injuries. Let's bring this to a standard. Get the stats for Polamalu in his first year playing. He was learning and played much more and had more bad plays than good. That second and third year however....the rest is history. So patience is allowed for a 2nd round rookie.

As for missed tackles, yes he leads as of week six. 3/4 of the stats is from the first two games. To prove your point he needs to participate in more defensive snaps. Which probably won't happen unless more injuries occur because of his current role. For once look at what it means to run a offense/defense squad. It's the sum of the parts. Not one player.

As a reminder the starting safety is one behind in missed tackles. So by your viewpoint he should be benched for Dangerfield or Golden. That would be an ignorant decision. Although his taunting penalties could be factored in.


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and coach extrapolates knowing that of those 9 missed tackles, 5 were in his first game as a rookie. When you extrapolate about performance, one would expect the most recent results would have more bearing. Not to coach.

 

[Litos]

when coach takes one week to reply a post, you know he's out of sorts

 

[Coach]

when coach takes one week to reply a post, you know he's out of sorts

I had a busy week.

To sum the Davis situation up best is the coaches see no value playing him now. Do you disagree with Tomlin and Butler? No ducking guys. You know who you are.

An answer would be appreciated . I'll check in later to see who gave one.

 

[Stryker]

I have no problem with playing Davis. He has more speed and range than any of our other safeties. I'd like to see him cover the athletic TEs. We'll see if he gets any Gronk duty this Sunday.

 

[antdrewjosh]

We've already explained it multiple times. Burns was playing better and he's a outside corner. Burns play allowed the Steelers to move their best slot corner inside which is Gay. Davis is now allowed to concentrate on his natural position and not have to study for two jobs every week.. of course you will ignore this again.

 

[Litos]

I had a busy week.

To sum the Davis situation up best is the coaches see no value playing him now. Do you disagree with Tomlin and Butler? No ducking guys. You know who you are.

An answer would be appreciated . I'll check in later to see who gave one.

antdrew already explained it to you. Keep ignoring factual answers

you had a busy week yet started a few more threads during that week... I call bullshit

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

We've already explained it multiple times. Burns was playing better and he's a outside corner. Burns play allowed the Steelers to move their best slot corner inside which is Gay. Davis is now allowed to concentrate on his natural position and not have to study for two jobs every week.. of course you will ignore this again.

It is a credit to how much the Steelers think of Davis that when Burns was injured and they needed another CB to play immediately, they went with Davis, not Doran Grant or any other CB.

Burns and Davis are so obviously superior physically to any other steeler DBs it's not funny.

The only reason Davis lasted until Round 2 is because Maryland kept switching him between Safety and CB just like the steelers did and the results were the same, hit or miss. Now he's moving back to play S only and learn the position.

 

[SteelChip]

As healthy bodies have returned or added (Gilbert). A. Burns has shown much promise which allows Will Gay to play his strongest position, the slot. Golden was brought in for the starting safety spot. For clarification, Golden has benn here for quite awhile

PRO (67-7/3-0): Signed a three-year contract with the Steelers on March 7, 2016…signed his one-year restricted free agent tender with the Steelers on April 29, 2015…originally signed with the Steelers as an undrafted rookie free agent on April 28, 2012.

Davis's role has changed since the first couple weeks. It's laughable when you say he is being phased out. He is performing the rookie role expected when he started OTAs and before injuries. This job went to Davis only after Golson got hurt (Again), the "being phased out" actually came from a news article (Steeler Depot ? ) and it referenced his being subjected to what they said amounted to positional overload and they would limit his position practices to one area going forward.

As for missed tackles, yes he leads as of week six. 3/4 of the stats is from the first two games. To prove your point he needs to participate in more defensive snaps. Which probably won't happen unless more injuries occur because of his current role. For once look at what it means to run a offense/defense squad. It's the sum of the parts. Not one player.

That's a valid point until one player leaves a hole in the overall plan, 11 players equal a team...take one out and you have a problem.

IMO Davis was just asked to learn too much in a short period and going forward they plan to concentrate on just Safety. They just assumed that with his athletic ability, he could handle it...who knows, in the future he may.

 

[antdrewjosh]

IMO Davis was just asked to learn too much in a short period and going forward they plan to concentrate on just Safety. They just assumed that with his athletic ability, he could handle it...who knows, in the future he may.

They did it because Burns was struggling in camp and then was injured..And then we also lost Golson too. The only other slot eligible guys were Gay and free agent bodies in camp. If Burns was struggling you had to keep Gay on the outside..

 

[Ike Kelly]

IMO Davis was just asked to learn too much in a short period and going forward they plan to concentrate on just Safety. They just assumed that with his athletic ability, he could handle it...who knows, in the future he may.

Chip, my comment regarding him being brought in was for his resigning. I know he has been here a while. He has worked his way up from Special Teams to a starter, a'la Thigpen, Hines Ward, Foote, Haggans, the list goes on.....He is a quality player.

As for Coach's assumption that the coaches "see no value playing" Davis and do I disagree with Tomlin and Butler? Your opinion is based purely on speculation that Davis isn't trusted by Tomlin, Butler or Lake. Ludicrious. Davis is the (rookie) backup safety as is Dangerfield. Both SS/FS positions are interchangeable in this defense. Dangerfield or Davis can play either. Dangerfield went in for Mitchell and Golden for a few plays last game. Davis snaps were Special Teams except for one defensive series...one snap that is.

But keep on speculating and reading imaginary tea leaves what YOU think the coaches are thinking. Nothing personal, but I think most of your post responses and new post submissions are for you to enjoy seeing the responses both positive and negative.

 

[Coach]

We've already explained it multiple times. Burns was playing better and he's a outside corner. Burns play allowed the Steelers to move their best slot corner inside which is Gay. Davis is now allowed to concentrate on his natural position and not have to study for two jobs every week.. of course you will ignore this again.

I'll address it and please try to understand my points.

Point 1 ) Davis has poor outside skills as a corner and poor skills as a slot corner. He should not play outside corner or slot corner unless he greatly improves, but I suspect he's just not cut out for either spot.

As I wrote, the coaching staff is wasting time trying Davis out as a slot corner. Guess who was right?


Point 2 ) Davis doesn't even hit the field these days at his natural positon of safety, even with injuries. Main reason, poor tackling and coverage skills. Ball skills may be an issue too. This is why 2nd string guys or new players who had even less time with the 1st string defense in camp in Dangerfield and Gilbert are playing ahead of him.

I fully agree with the coaching staff on phasing Davis out, the only difference is Davis' role should have been limited sooner in my opinion because it was evident he wasn't very good.


Bottom line. If you're a 2nd round pick at DB, and can not play in the nickel, dime or even quarter ( 5, 6, and 7 DB's ), you either have the fantastic depth or are not very good as a rookie. Our depth is not very good. Like I said I won't call him a bust in year one, but what he has shown on the field is very concerning.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I'll address it and please try to understand my points.

Point 1 ) Davis has poor outside skills as a corner and poor skills as a slot corner. He should not play outside corner or slot corner unless he greatly improves, but I suspect he's just not cut out for either spot.

As I wrote, the coaching staff is wasting time trying Davis out as a slot corner. Guess who was right?


Point 2 ) Davis doesn't even hit the field these days at his natural positon of safety, even with injuries. Main reason, poor tackling and coverage skills. Ball skills may be an issue too. This is why 2nd string guys or new players who had even less time with the 1st string defense in camp in Dangerfield and Gilbert are playing ahead of him.

I fully agree with the coaching staff on phasing Davis out, the only difference is Davis' role should have been limited sooner in my opinion because it was evident he wasn't very good.


Bottom line. If you're a 2nd round pick at DB, and can not play in the nickel, dime or even quarter ( 5, 6, and 7 DB's ), you either have the fantastic depth or are not very good as a rookie. Our depth is not very good. Like I said I won't call him a bust in year one, but what he has shown on the field is very concerning.

 

[Coach]

View attachment 2763

You are dense.

Davis is NOT good enough to play, in the nickel, dime or quarter defenses not even on a pass defense that ranked 30th last year that played 7 backup QB's, and this year made Ryan Tannehill look like a pro bowl player.

He's a special team's only guy right now. We'll see it he can make any tackles there. The good news from your point of view is because he's nearly invisible, there is not much need to comment on him.

 

[antdrewjosh]

You are dense.

Davis is NOT good enough to play, in the nickel, dime or quarter defenses not even on a pass defense that ranked 30th last year that played 7 backup QB's, and this year made Ryan Tannehill look like a pro bowl player.

He's a special team's only guy right now. We'll see it he can make any tackles there. The good news from your point of view is because he's nearly invisible, there is not much need to comment on him.

I will be dense then cause I can't take this merry go round with you. No matter how many times someone explains something to you. You just regurgitate the same thing over and over.

 

[Coach]

I will be dense then cause I can't take this merry go round with you. No matter how many times someone explains something to you. You just regurgitate the same thing over and over.

EXCUSES don't help son, which is why I'm not even bothering to replying to half of them except to say the other players who also have limited experience are better and playing ahead of Davis. Can you comprehend?

Should I just post a photo of Davis on the bench that says I'm not good enough to play in any defensive sub-package. That's the deal right now and no excuse you come up with will change it, but an injury can.

 

[antdrewjosh]

EXCUSES don't help son, which is why I'm not even bothering to replying to half of them except to say the other players who also have limited experience are better and playing ahead of Davis. Can you comprehend?

Should I just post a photo of Davis on the bench that says I'm not good enough to play in any defensive sub-package. That's the deal right now and no excuse you come up with will change it, but an injury can.

So who is he supposed to start over at safety. Golden or Mitchell??? And before you say Dangerfield played over him you do know he was dealing with a injury also.. **** has been explained front wards and backwards but you still keep posting the same dumb ****.

 

[Ike Kelly]

I'll address it and please try to understand my points.

Point 1 ) Davis has poor outside skills as a corner and poor skills as a slot corner. He should not play outside corner or slot corner unless he greatly improves, but I suspect he's just not cut out for either spot.

Point 2 ) Davis doesn't even hit the field these days at his natural positon of safety, even with injuries. Main reason, poor tackling and coverage skills. Ball skills may be an issue too. This is why 2nd string guys or new players who had even less time with the 1st string defense in camp in Dangerfield and Gilbert are playing ahead of him.

I fully agree with the coaching staff on phasing Davis out, the only difference is Davis' role should have been limited sooner in my opinion because it was evident he wasn't very good.


Bottom line. If you're a 2nd round pick at DB, and can not play in the nickel, dime or even quarter ( 5, 6, and 7 DB's ), you either have the fantastic depth or are not very good as a rookie. Our depth is not very good. Like I said I won't call him a bust in year one, but what he has shown on the field is very concerning.

You make observations, that no coordinator or position coach has ever commented, not to mention beat writers. Davis played CB and S in college, there was enough game tape of him that he was asked to fill a need in OTAs and camps due to lack of bodies from the nickel and dime starters (Golson and Burns). Forget the notion that when the season started, Golson is still out, and Burns is not ready because of all the missed practice time and GIlbert was just brought in with no formal knowledge of the defense.

Yes he had 7 missed tackles in the first 2 games. Lets bring up all the stats of ROOKIE DBs first two games and their missed tackles stats......I would be intrigued who would be there from 1st round through 3rd round talent. Davis and Dangerfield are the backup safeties. Both safety positions are interchangeable. Check the depth chart on the website. Thomas is probably still listed, but he is strictly special teams. Dangerfield filled in for Mitchell for a couple plays due to injury, as for Golden too. Davis, along with Dangerfield plays Special Teams.

Poor coverage and ball skills? You have deduced this in 5 games of professional play, with no starting experience and limited snaps on the defense? Its no wonder why you are not a talent evaluator professionally. You wouldn't last long. Scouts take years to determine a players skill set, and they are 50/50 successful.

You imply the coaching staff is phasing Davis out, yet he is the back up safety along with Dangerfield. Burns is playing CB in the nickle and Gilbert is now becoming available too. So true corners are now playing those positions. No coach has stated they are phasing Davis out, so stop putting words in their mouths and calling I told you so....when only you have made the statement based upon your austere observations. So I don't agree with any of your pointed "personal observations" regarding his skill levels.

Your "points" are noted, but most agree to disagree. Myself included. No ill will either. You make these statements before thinking about what you are saying. No coach has commented on phasing Davis out, so you only are agreeing with your opinion. You stated staff is wasting time trying out Davis as a slot corner, this was during a period when there was a shortage of bodies. He had/has the skill set in college so, logically, it has been evaluated for him professionally. Your observation skills have been noted by some based upon your opinions about a future HOF player who was terrible in his first year. If you are the same person who made that assertion...."Guess you were right" then too?

But enjoy your post count bump that I know is coming....no further comments are necessary.

 

[Coach]

You make observations, that no coordinator or position coach has ever commented, not to mention beat writers. Davis played CB and S in college, there was enough game tape of him that he was asked to fill a need in OTAs and camps due to lack of bodies from the nickel and dime starters (Golson and Burns). Forget the notion that when the season started, Golson is still out, and Burns is not ready because of all the missed practice time and GIlbert was just brought in with no formal knowledge of the defense.

Yes he had 7 missed tackles in the first 2 games. Lets bring up all the stats of ROOKIE DBs first two games and their missed tackles stats......I would be intrigued who would be there from 1st round through 3rd round talent. Davis and Dangerfield are the backup safeties. Both safety positions are interchangeable. Check the depth chart on the website. Thomas is probably still listed, but he is strictly special teams. Dangerfield filled in for Mitchell for a couple plays due to injury, as for Golden too. Davis, along with Dangerfield plays Special Teams.

Poor coverage and ball skills? You have deduced this in 5 games of professional play, with no starting experience and limited snaps on the defense? Its no wonder why you are not a talent evaluator professionally. You wouldn't last long. Scouts take years to determine a players skill set, and they are 50/50 successful.

You imply the coaching staff is phasing Davis out, yet he is the back up safety along with Dangerfield. Burns is playing CB in the nickle and Gilbert is now becoming available too. So true corners are now playing those positions. No coach has stated they are phasing Davis out, so stop putting words in their mouths and calling I told you so....when only you have made the statement based upon your austere observations. So I don't agree with any of your pointed "personal observations" regarding his skill levels.

Your "points" are noted, but most agree to disagree. Myself included. No ill will either. You make these statements before thinking about what you are saying. No coach has commented on phasing Davis out, so you only are agreeing with your opinion. You stated staff is wasting time trying out Davis as a slot corner, this was during a period when there was a shortage of bodies. He had/has the skill set in college so, logically, it has been evaluated for him professionally. Your observation skills have been noted by some based upon your opinions about a future HOF player who was terrible in his first year. If you are the same person who made that assertion...."Guess you were right" then too?

But enjoy your post count bump that I know is coming....no further comments are necessary.

Ike,

You're a better poster than most here. I respect you for that.

Do not use the line he played both safety and corner in college. Davis played in 38 games in college. That's a lot more than many drafted corners or safeties. He spent plenty of time at safety, 20+ games.

Davis poor coverage skills were seen in the pre-season and games. Daivs has just one pass broken up for the season. I'd like to see his target attempts vs the amount completed. This would be relevant to his lack of coverage abilities. Agreed?

As for the missed tackles, I counted two in the Eagles game ( game 3 ) and both plays went for scores. That puts him at 9 total with three games played. Are you saying he didn't miss two tackles in that game, and has not missed a tackle since game #3? I think the tackle report didn't either see or count correctly.

If phasing out is too harsh, I could have said benching in favor of. Would that be better? Davis is being benched in favor of Dangerfield, a raw player who spent less time in the defense with the first string units in comparison to Davis. And his experiment at corner as predicted was an utter failure. Gilbert a new Steeler not known for a high football IQ has replaced Davis. Burns has more value to the team in coverage as well. So Davis not playing now unless an injury hits. And he'll need improvement to play, but the other three players can certainly improve too.

Anyone who watched Davis college clips at corner or safety could have predicted he'd struggle in the NFL with coverage. That's is how I knew. That and the pre-season games only confirmed that.

I was clear I wanted Davis benched. It took the coaches a few games to figure it out, but they agree with me. So how was I wrong? I wasn't. I went against their acumen, and they ended up agreeing with me. That's called going out on a limb. I have no problem doing that.

And finally, I'll bet you my house Davis is not a hall of fame player. Troy did have a bad rookie year, but he showed far more that Davis did. We all agree there.

Over the years, my calls on rookies have been pretty good. A better batting average than Colbert if you want the truth.

I hated both the Jones and Hood picks. Didn't like Sweed from day one, wanted Sean Lee over Worilds, liked the Wallace and Heyward picks, ect...

 

[antdrewjosh]

Sean Davis too versatile for his own good
October 14, 2016 8:13 AM
By Ray Fittipaldo/Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Steelers put a lot of Sean Davis’ plate in training camp. The rookie second-round pick was drafted to be the strong safety of the future, but after less than a week of training camp he was asked to perform double duty.

In addition to playing safety, Steelers defensive coordinator Keith Butler and secondary coach Carnell Lake promoted Davis to starting slot corner in the nickel defense after Senquez Golson went down with a foot injury.

It was a move made out of desperation. Other cornerbacks in camp, including rookie first-round pick Artie Burns, were injured and Davis was the best option despite the Steelers knowing safety was his best position.

ADVERTISEMENT

Now, after five games of watching Davis in the slot, the Steelers have decided to promote Burns and demote Davis. When the Steelers play the nickel in Miami, Burns will come in as the third cornerback and play on the outside while Will Gay will move into the slot.

Butler said this was a possibility all along, dating to training camp. What delayed the move was Burns’ health. He didn’t play in until the final preseason game against Carolina because of a hamstring injury. Burns isn’t a finished product by any means, but Butler has determined that he’s playing better now than Davis is.

In the end, Davis’ versatility hurt him. Had Golson stayed healthy he might have had a chance to challenge Robert Golden for the starting strong safety job. Now he’s behind the learning curve at that position, and Golden and Jordan Dangerfield, who started twice when Golden was injured, have established themselves as dependable starters.

Butler intimated that Davis was a bit overwhelmed mentally and indicated missing some time with a back injury a week ago got him behind.

“We’re trying to put him in a position where, we don’t want him overloaded with things,” Butler said Thursday. “We’re going to try to play him in a position where he can learn and he can be comfortable playing and the people around him can be comfortable with what he’s doing, too.”

In training camp, Butler said one of the advantages of having Davis play in the slot was the possibilities he provided in the blitz game – a big corner coming off the edge had the potential to provide some big plays. But we never saw much of that during the season.

Butler decided playing coverage, rather than blitzing, was best for the defense as a whole. And perhaps Davis’ knowledge of the defense prevented Butler from dialing up those blitzes.

The good news for Davis is he can now concentrate on playing one position. The bad news is his development at safety was stalled by injury and his versatility.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/...rsatile-for-his-own-good/stories/201610140167


Just keep on pounding your chest. Pushing your obvious agenda. Golden has only one pass defensed too maybe they should start Dangerfield over both. Cam Heyward has more then Gay let's move him to corner

 

[paperclip]

I was clear I wanted Davis benched. It took the coaches a few games to figure it out, but they agree with me. So how was I wrong? I wasn't. I went against their acumen, and they ended up agreeing with me. That's called going out on a limb. I have no problem doing that.



Over the years, my calls on rookies have been pretty good. A better batting average than Colbert if you want the truth.
..

These were my favorites. Have you considered contacting the front office for a scouting position, when all it takes is

Anyone who watched Davis college clips at corner or safety could have predicted he'd struggle in the NFL with coverage. That's is how I knew.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Ike,

You're a better poster than most here. I respect you for that.

Do not use the line he played both safety and corner in college. Davis played in 38 games in college. That's a lot more than many drafted corners or safeties. He spent plenty of time at safety, 20+ games.

Davis poor coverage skills were seen in the pre-season and games. Daivs has just one pass broken up for the season. I'd like to see his target attempts vs the amount completed. This would be relevant to his lack of coverage abilities. Agreed?

As for the missed tackles, I counted two in the Eagles game ( game 3 ) and both plays went for scores. That puts him at 9 total with three games played. Are you saying he didn't miss two tackles in that game, and has not missed a tackle since game #3? I think the tackle report didn't either see or count correctly.

If phasing out is too harsh, I could have said benching in favor of. Would that be better? Davis is being benched in favor of Dangerfield, a raw player who spent less time in the defense with the first string units in comparison to Davis. And his experiment at corner as predicted was an utter failure. Gilbert a new Steeler not known for a high football IQ has replaced Davis. Burns has more value to the team in coverage as well. So Davis not playing now unless an injury hits. And he'll need improvement to play, but the other three players can certainly improve too.

Anyone who watched Davis college clips at corner or safety could have predicted he'd struggle in the NFL with coverage. That's is how I knew. That and the pre-season games only confirmed that.

I was clear I wanted Davis benched. It took the coaches a few games to figure it out, but they agree with me. So how was I wrong? I wasn't. I went against their acumen, and they ended up agreeing with me. That's called going out on a limb. I have no problem doing that.

And finally, I'll bet you my house Davis is not a hall of fame player. Troy did have a bad rookie year, but he showed far more that Davis did. We all agree there.

Over the years, my calls on rookies have been pretty good. A better batting average than Colbert if you want the truth.

I hated both the Jones and Hood picks. Didn't like Sweed from day one, wanted Sean Lee over Worilds, liked the Wallace and Heyward picks, ect...

Using the line "he played both safety and corner in college" means he was able to grasp his defensive coordinator's scheme with confidence to more than one role. That's a positive. The fact that he played 50 (not 38) games in college means he has a lot of experience. Another positive from a evaluation standpoint. As is his listed tackles in college were over 300, which is exceptional. However, it doesn't mean much now since he is in the NFL. Totally different atmosphere all together. But it doesn't mean he isn't talented. Rather, he hasn't the reps to gain experience at the pro level. He's played in 5 games (Really only 3 with 2 in spot duty). He's a rookie and by no means scratched the surface of his playing ability, which will definitely improve, barring injury.

Phasing out and benching are two different terms altogether. Benching is what Cowher did to Ike Taylor, to get him to focus better (it worked). He was also a veteran, so it works differently as well. Phasing out, means moving on, going in a different direction, or released, cut. Benched in favor of Dangerfield? IIRC Davis was a active injured player, Dangerfield wasn't, so naturally he went in first. Simple rules of attrition. Experiment was an utter failure? You said yourself Burns (a cover corner) has more value in coverage than Davis. Why would you NOT play the better coverage player in the nickle/dime formation when one is disciplined in the Safety role?

You keep stating poor cover skills "we''ve seen in pre-season games". And only one pass broken up for the season. You dissect his missed tackles and assume they would be greater if he played more. If he played more, I would garner he would have more pass defensed stats as well. You are able to find the numbers on missed tackles, shouldn't be too hard to find targets to completed ratio (which is traditionally a stat for cornerbacks and not strong safeties). So continue to pick and choose pieces of factual information and rationalization. This is why your statements are easy to debunk logically.

Davis's missed tackles were 7 in the first two games (5 and 2 I think), then 2 more following the next two games pa, rticipated for a total of 9. Missed tackles at the moment is a red herring since there are players on this defense missing tackles with tremendous flair. So, to single out Davis is not really looking at the entire scope of play by the defense. What bewilders me even more is your assertion "Anyone who watched Davis in college" at both positions predicted he struggle in coverage in the NFL. Again, picking and choosing data to fit your ideology instead of seeing the entire picture of productivity. I watched a lot of Maryland games and Davis always stood out in either position, hard hitter sure tackler and tremendous blitzer covering the run and pass (Typical Steeler DB). I've read a lot of scouting reports about Davis when he was coming out about his play, and while there was comments about his ball awareness in coverage, it was related to his cornerback play and NOT his safety positioning.

Yes we know you disliked the Davis pick, you have harped on it ad nauseam. "Ït took the coaches a few games"....seriously? Everything printed by beat writers and stated by coaches don't imply he was benched. It IS implied that since Burns and Gilbert, both true cornerbacks, were finally available for nickel formations then Davis wasn't needed to concentrate on slot responsibilites. Which is better in my view, since he can concentrate on his true position as a rookie. So your are wrong, it isn't a matter the coaches agreed with you. Its not even a viable inquiry, since there is no information to support that the coaches "took a few games to figure it out" what didn't occur. Also, Gilbert, not-known for high football IQ?. What's this based on, his time in Cleveland? Sorry, I will wait and see before I gather any conclusion since anything related to Cleveland is a disaster......new coaches, new owners, new GMs....factory of sadness as most call it. Let Gilbert be in a stable environment with good coaches for a bit, then I will pass judgement.

Coach where in my musings did I ever imply Davis would be a player of Polamalu's caliber? I used Troy as an example of your premature observation and FINAL conclusions about a rookie safety. As for Polamalu showing more,,,,of course, he was a first round pick, at a position of need and Cowher/Colbert moved up to get him (13 places?, not sure). Of course he is going to play a heck alot more.

As for your batting average......well, lets just say, where are your published numbers to compare with Colbert? Heck I'll tell you I have a 100% BA with rookies, but I don't have justification to prove it. I have my opinions, you have yours. I just respectfully disagree with how you formulate the conclusions to yours.

 

[Coach]

Antdrewjosh,

Sean Davis too versatile for his own good?

LOL. He's so good he's on the bench. Not good for a 2nd round pick at DB, a position where as many as 7 other players can be on the field at once for the defense.

I think my main problem for posters like you, AKA the suck up and defend types is I grind you down too much. Now that Davis isn't playing and won't be unless injuries hit, there is not much need to stay on his case and remind you how poorly he has played.

Kind of like Blake. He sucked, but he's not playing for the Defense anymore.

And it will be the same way for Jarvis Jones once he leaves, but for now, he's here so expect people to talk about his lack of pass rush.

The good news is I won't start anymore Davis threads with him on the bench unless baited with false information. What's the point? I was correct on him so far. Weak in coverage, and poor tackling. Two major holes in his game.

I'll give out my player grades after 8 games. Suffice to say Davis won't grade out over a C.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Antdrewjosh,

Sean Davis too versatile for his own good?

LOL. He's so good he's on the bench. Not good for a 2nd round pick at DB, a position where as many as 7 other players can be on the field at once for the defense.

I think my main problem for posters like you, AKA the suck up and defend types is I grind you down too much. Now that Davis isn't playing and won't be unless injuries hit, there is not much need to stay on his case and remind you how poorly he has played.

Kind of like Blake. He sucked, but he's not playing for the Defense anymore.

And it will be the same way for Jarvis Jones once he leaves, but for now, he's here so expect people to talk about his lack of pass rush.

The good news is I won't start anymore Davis threads with him on the bench unless baited with false information. What's the point? I was correct on him so far. Weak in coverage, and poor tackling. Two major holes in his game.

I'll give out my player grades after 8 games. Suffice to say Davis won't grade out over a C.

I will make sure to take off work to celebrate your player grades after 8 weeks..I will also start a petition to make it a holiday. I'm sure the world will want to celebrate this monumental occasion