In fairness, in his first few years Ben had Jerome Bettis, a stacked list of WR's, and a lights-out defense to take a little pressure off and Mason has none of those.
Let’s accept it: Rudolph isn’t Roethlisberger
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In fairness, in his first few years Ben had Jerome Bettis, a stacked list of WR's, and a lights-out defense to take a little pressure off and Mason has none of those.
To be fair, in Bens third season he tried to eat a moving car and had his mouth wired shut... he lost a metric ton of weight and muscle mass, then tried to come back early. The first half of that season was not indicative of his development...
Ben was the 3rd highest rated QB after his 2nd NFL season. Ben had 5 4th quarter comebacks and 4 game winning drives as a rookie. Developing Ben, blows developing Mason away.
Mason plays in an NFL that promotes the passing game, to the point where there are 4 times as many 100+rated QB now compared to when Ben started.
Ben had that around him, but he made them all better and made some great passes, Burress left after Ben's rookie season, I'd hardly call Randle EL(college QB), Cedric Wilson, Quincy Morgan, and a rookie TE as a stacked list of WR's, Ward is obvious.
I do agree that some are using the excuse that the game changed to discredit any comparisons to older qbs... but then ignoring that his stats over the first few games of his career are extremely good compared to his actual contemporaries in experience and age... again only Watson and mahones blow him out of the water... and they are more experienced and playing for qb gurus..... expecting guys to be ready right out of the box is exactly how you end up screaming bust for Troys rookie season...
I agree with everyone who says he has things to work on
I disagree with everyone who thinks he is already a bust...
The especially damning thing for it being a staff issue moreso than a qb issue is that when Duck went in the exact same type of passing plan was in play... despite niether duck nor mason having traditionally strong aspects to this short- out of the middle- type scheme...
I just think we have a one or two read, dump it off thing going on...
I agree with everyone who says he has things to work on
I disagree with everyone who thinks he is already a bust...
The especially damning thing for it being a staff issue moreso than a qb issue is that when Duck went in the exact same type of passing plan was in play... despite niether duck nor mason having traditionally strong aspects to this short- out of the middle- type scheme...
I just think we have a one or two read, dump it off thing going on...
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Ben's rookie season was one for the ages. Will never forget how impressive that kid was. 13-0 as a starter to begin his career. That's a once-in-a-blue-moon type player.
Ben's yards per attempt was 8.9 his rookie year. The only game Rudolph has come close to that was the game against Bengals (8.18) in week four, by far his best game this year. He went 24 of 28 for 229 yards, 86% completion rate, 2 TD's, 0 INT. If Rudolph can play anything close to that rest of the way he - and the Steelers - are going to be okay.
Last two games we've seen bad Rudolph, averaging 6.9 and 5.4 yards per attempt with two picks, and a sack/safety.
Fichtner should cue up that Bengals game film and figure out what Rudolph was doing right, and what he was comfortable with, and focus on his strengths from this point forward.
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Just reminiscing about how many years Ben had the label of "game manager". It was at least a third and maybe half his career. Laughable when you think about it.
The higher ratings are because teams utilize short passes a lot more now... which is exactly what we are bitching about now, right?
Just go through the list of 24 and younger qbs and point out who is obviously better than Rudolph right now... I will give you watson and mahomes... he likely never reaches that level...
But lamar is just another kordell, rg3 or vick... early success with dumbed down offenses... even if you count him, thats like three, maybe four qbs out of 3 draft classes...
I'm not labeling Mason, a bust, bad, garbage, etc. I'm just pointing out that people keep using the players around Ben to discredit him. Mason does not compare to Ben as first year starters, etc. I don't care what stats get thrown in there, or who played with who, just watching the two you can see it.
That doesn't mean I think Mason sucks, or is bad. I mean I knew Parker wasn't as good as Bettis, but that doesn't mean Parker wasn't good.
That doesn't mean I think Mason sucks, or is bad. I mean I knew Parker wasn't as good as Bettis, but that doesn't mean Parker wasn't good.
Ben was just a phenom... i think if cowher doesn’t retire and he doesn’t get arians as oc with a super green tomlin over the team so early, he becomes at least the third best passer of his generation... maybe higher... his quick pass passer rating was always around the leagues best, yet the arians years he just bombed it every time...
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Exactly right. Cowher used play action a ton. Just like Peyton does in NO. Ben is absolutely deadly in play action under center. BA wanted to be Air-Coryell of his generation. I remember BA basically saying that he is going to take shots down the field regardless of the defense. He didn't care if it worked or not. Which is absolutely stupid for an OC to say. Whiz knew how to handle Ben and allow him to be at his best.
Yep, I remember that quote, it came after an INT on a long bomb and everyone was bitching Ben didn't check it down, BA came out and said there's a few plays every game that we're throwing it deep regardless of the coverage.
Whiners rejoice! The overwhelming majority of teams DO NOT go from one franchise QB to another, let alone a HOFer to a franchise QB. The jury is still out on Rudolph and even Hodges but neither should be written off this season. And, dare I say get used to it because if neither work out, we may not have another franchise QB here for another 20+ years if we repeat our past.
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Looks like Fichtner's determined to play the short passing game and let players gain yards with their feet. I still say they need to air it out once in a while, but they do lead the league in YAC by a fairly large margin.
Looks like Fichtner's determined to play the short passing game and let players gain yards with their feet. I still say they need to air it out once in a while, but they do lead the league in YAC by a fairly large margin.
Wow... and that is despite having “tackled by a blade of grass” Switzer on the field occasionally ...
My most favorite post game BA nonsensical post was when asked after a giants game where ben got obliterated by sacks why they didn’t use screens or quick slants to the middle to beat the pressure, he said that those don’t really work in the nfl....
Great qb and wr mentor and a solid HC... but as an oc he was a nitwit
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Looks like Fichtner's determined to play the short passing game and let players gain yards with their feet. I still say they need to air it out once in a while, but they do lead the league in YAC by a fairly large margin.
It's not working. We're 29th in total receiving yards this year. Only the Bears, Redskins, and Jets are worse. - https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/team/_/stat/receiving/table/receiving/dir/desc
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Rudolph will likely crash as soon as the turnover gravy train stops
The Steelers are + 11 on turnovers thanks to a fierce pass rush, playing some very bad teams, and acquired ( not drafted ) DB's who can intercept the ball.
As we know, winning the turnover battle is perhaps the biggest key to victory. The bests team tend to on the plus side of turnovers, the worst on the minus side of turnovers.
When I look at the top turnover teams, they are:
New England +17
Pittsburgh +11
Green Bay +7
Seattle +7
Carolina +6
All of the above teams have a winning record, except for us, and our wins can from Cincy, Miami, a missed FG in the Colts, and the Chargers, who have a losing record.
By contrast, teams who have the fewest turnovers are:
Miami - 13
Atlanta - 11
NY Giants - 10
Cincinnati - 9
Cleveland -8
Combined these five teams have only won six games.
Analysis: When you’re a QB on a team of +11 turnovers, and your kicker is playing lights out, you can beat the very bad teams with losing records, and even a .500 type of team if they make a mistake or two and your team gets say a pick six.
However to defeat .500 or above team in a where the turnovers are close, your QB is going to have to produce. Throwing dink and dunk 0-5 yards type of passing offense just isn't going to cut it aside from kicking field goals. So far this season, 36.4% of Rudolph’s total pass attempts have been throws that never crossed the original line of scrimmage! Rudy has thrown in the 1-5 yards range past the line of scrimmage 22% of the time. Yes—57.5% of his passes thrown were of the dink variety of 5 yards and less. To complicate matters, Rudy’s accuracy past the 6 yard mark is only 43.4% If a team plays short man zone, or even tries bump and run vs our RB, our passing game, what's left of it will be in a world of hurt. When was the last time the Steelers failed to have at least two of the following. A 3,000-yard passer, 1,000-yard rusher, and a 1,000-yard receiver? We are on pace for going 0-3 in this area.
For the record, I don’t blame Randy Fichtner one iota. We saw how his offense works with the same players, minus Ben. It worked well. Randy knows if Rudolph has to pass to win, the interceptions are coming thanks to a weak arm by NFL staring QB standards and iffy accuracy to hit moving targets. I anticipate NFL defensive coordinators will figure out Rudy’s passes are either going to be dump-offs to the backs or very short routes to the TE’s, with an occasional floating like 50/50 deep ball to the receivers. The Colts caught on it later in the game. And speaking of that game, their 3rd sting man, a guy Tomlin brought in but did not keep looked better than Rudy did on his best game.
I don’t know when the defensive turnover’s stop, but when it does, I fully expect a crash from Rudolph. We will be hearing some Duck calls. I’m not saying Duck is any better. He would need a few games as a starter to compare.
The Steelers are + 11 on turnovers thanks to a fierce pass rush, playing some very bad teams, and acquired ( not drafted ) DB's who can intercept the ball.
As we know, winning the turnover battle is perhaps the biggest key to victory. The bests team tend to on the plus side of turnovers, the worst on the minus side of turnovers.
When I look at the top turnover teams, they are:
New England +17
Pittsburgh +11
Green Bay +7
Seattle +7
Carolina +6
All of the above teams have a winning record, except for us, and our wins can from Cincy, Miami, a missed FG in the Colts, and the Chargers, who have a losing record.
By contrast, teams who have the fewest turnovers are:
Miami - 13
Atlanta - 11
NY Giants - 10
Cincinnati - 9
Cleveland -8
Combined these five teams have only won six games.
Analysis: When you’re a QB on a team of +11 turnovers, and your kicker is playing lights out, you can beat the very bad teams with losing records, and even a .500 type of team if they make a mistake or two and your team gets say a pick six.
However to defeat .500 or above team in a where the turnovers are close, your QB is going to have to produce. Throwing dink and dunk 0-5 yards type of passing offense just isn't going to cut it aside from kicking field goals. So far this season, 36.4% of Rudolph’s total pass attempts have been throws that never crossed the original line of scrimmage! Rudy has thrown in the 1-5 yards range past the line of scrimmage 22% of the time. Yes—57.5% of his passes thrown were of the dink variety of 5 yards and less. To complicate matters, Rudy’s accuracy past the 6 yard mark is only 43.4% If a team plays short man zone, or even tries bump and run vs our RB, our passing game, what's left of it will be in a world of hurt. When was the last time the Steelers failed to have at least two of the following. A 3,000-yard passer, 1,000-yard rusher, and a 1,000-yard receiver? We are on pace for going 0-3 in this area.
For the record, I don’t blame Randy Fichtner one iota. We saw how his offense works with the same players, minus Ben. It worked well. Randy knows if Rudolph has to pass to win, the interceptions are coming thanks to a weak arm by NFL staring QB standards and iffy accuracy to hit moving targets. I anticipate NFL defensive coordinators will figure out Rudy’s passes are either going to be dump-offs to the backs or very short routes to the TE’s, with an occasional floating like 50/50 deep ball to the receivers. The Colts caught on it later in the game. And speaking of that game, their 3rd sting man, a guy Tomlin brought in but did not keep looked better than Rudy did on his best game.
I don’t know when the defensive turnover’s stop, but when it does, I fully expect a crash from Rudolph. We will be hearing some Duck calls. I’m not saying Duck is any better. He would need a few games as a starter to compare.
you really thought this was a new thread?
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Coach has his new agenda, Mason Rudolph sucks and has a weak arm.
He likes to keep it between two to three players sucking per week, so that he can shuffle his I told ya so agenda.
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This is actually good news. Based on Coach's track record, Rudolph may actually round into a serviceable starting QB.
I wonder if he thinks Rudy's head is too big as well.
My favorite BA quote was when we lost in Cleveland after throwing the ball all day in sub-zero temps and he said, ''We don't let the weather dictate our game plan."