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Kick / Punt Returner Battle

antdrewjosh said:
Were you there too determine that the reason he won't make the team is that he is too small or too slow.
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nope, he knows from one line in an article stating Ayers has yet to make a reception in team drills that that is the case, which he then changes to he has not caught any passes in camp in a later post, which is clearly an inaccurate statement.
 
CoolieMan said:
nope, he knows from one line in an article stating Ayers has yet to make a reception in team drills that that is the case, which he then changes to he has not caught any passes in camp in a later post, which is clearly an inaccurate statement.
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When the crazy part is we've all said Ayers will make the team as a returner. That's where he has to make his mark. Whatever he does as a WR will be a plus but he has to be the best PR option on the team. Rodgers has been getting first team reps since last year. The Ayers vs Rodgers at WR was never a competition. It has always been Ayers Vs everyone else at PR as the way Ayers could make this team.
 
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Coach said:
Then don't name call or at least be more creative when you do it. Got it Richard?

I said Ayers is too small and too slow. He is. By chance are you a math guy? Let's put it this way, how many starting return men in the NFLare 5'9" tall and run a 4.60 forty ( His pro day time )? I don't profess to know, but I would guess maybe 1 or zero. There you have the odds. Well see if Ayers can buck them, but it's clear Rodgers has an edge for the 5th WR spot, and if Rodgers return ability is near even with Ayers, it's an easy call who makes the roster

With kickoffs these days often resulting in touch backs it, a spot for a return man only is a luxury, and that luxury would have to be nearly as good or better than Wheaton or Brown.

As I said before, I'd like to see what Coates can do as a kickoff man. Maybe DHB as well.
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You're ignoring the ever important measure you cited years ago for the be all end all to an NFL players success, RCS, or Relative Cranium Size. How big is this dudes head, exactly? We all remember how Bustamalu went down in flames.

Joe
 
t-man said:
You're ignoring the ever important measure you cited years ago for the be all end all to an NFL players success

Joe
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Well Joe,

Rodgers is pretty small. But he's taller, heavier and slightly faster the Ayers.
 
CoolieMan said:
in the camp news thread the "stats" were posted....if I remember correctly it was from steelers depot. it shows Ayers has no catches on two attempts with no drops...

IF hester is healthy...then why was he cut?
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Well, it seems like money was an issue.

Devin Hester was released by the Atlanta Falcons on Tuesday after two seasons with the team.

Hester, who was entering the final season of a three-year, $9 million contract, holds the NFL record for kickoff and punt returns for touchdowns.
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As I mentioned his kickoff average per return were high last year, and the punts and kickoffs average per return were high the year before. Injury and age might have had something to do with the Falcons parting ways with Hester.


PS: I see your boy beat our worst coverage DB ( Ventrone ) who made the team last season Kudos, but I would buy that Ayers Jersey just yet :)

PPS: I Was factually correct when I said Ayers has not made a reception on 11 on 11 drills. That was a few days ago. Now he's off the 0. I'll bet you he does not make the initial 53 man roster unless there is an injury to a depth chart player in front of him at WR. How about avatar rights for say the first three months of the season? Let me know Coolie!
 
I want to keep both, if wheaton goes down there's no slot receiver on the team and I don't want to move AB to that spot. One gets a hat, the other waits and learns
 
antdrewjosh said:
Rodgers play has nothing to do with Ayers athletic abilities.

Where has anyone who has watched practice said Ayers is too slow? Can you find one report one tweet stating that Ayers is not going to make the team because of his athletic ability.

I can find some saying the opposite

DDemarcus Ayers shows some really impressive explosion to jet away from Sean Davis downfield, making a catch down the sideline.

Demarcus Ayers breaks down in a hurry, shaking loss Shabazz, and makes the grab. Shabazz took a long time to gather himself.

Senquez Golson has tight coverage on Ayers all the way but Ayers makes a diving grab on an out route. Ayers has solid hands and makes tough catches.

Sean Davis mirrors Ayers well off the line of scrimmage but Ayers gets away on an out.

Demarcus Ayers broke Jordan Dangerfield’s ankles badly on a PCP (Post-Corner-Post) route from the slot during one 11v11 period, but quarterback Dustin Vaughan missed the wide-open rookie


Now find me one that supports your statement that Ayers will not make the team because he is too slow. If he doesn't it will be because Rodgers is better..

And I don't have to be more creative that name perfectly describes you and your habit to change any and everything to be right
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Okay,

Let's be real here. Who is he beating? Rookies and guys who won't be on the initial 53 man roster?

I have major issues with Davis ability in coverage. If Ayers beat Davis twice, our 2nd round pick isn't looking so good. You can't have it both ways here.

Dangerfield is a hitter. He did not make the team last year. Shabazz is what, a player cut twice in from the Colts and Bucks in 2015 who's 4th string on our the depth chart?

When I see Ayers beat what amounts to a veteran who's going to make the team I'll take notice.

Until then it is a fact he's short, light and slow for a receiver.

And he's behind Eli Rodgers for the 5th WR spot.

Even Coolie man knows the only way Ayers makes the team is as a kick return man.

I asked if there are ANY WR's in the NFL that return kicks that short and slow. Not one person answered. I'm not changing anything here. I do not think he makes the team. That has been very consistant, and I even offered Coolie a fun bet on that point.
 
zmetkler said:
https://gzsportsreport.com/2016/08/08/steelers-rookie-progress-report/
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The Steelers selected Demarcus Ayers to compete as a punt returner and potentially help out as a slot receiver. However, it seems that his diminutive counterpart Eli Rogers has received most of the praise throughout training camp, as Rogers has been the primary punt returner and has even been getting reps as the 1st-team slot receiver. That is not to say that Ayers has shown nothing so far in camp. Ayers has gotten time as both a punt returner and a kick returner and has shown sure hands on offense when given the opportunity. With the emergence of Rogers and Sammie Coates, it appears that the receiving group is getting crowded so the only way Ayers is going to have a chance of making the 53-man roster is because of an injury to another receiver or to crack it as a punt returner for the Steelers. I personally like Ayers skillset but am currently am not holding my breath. It will be hard to gauge just how valuable Ayers is to the Steelers when the preseason games get underway.

Progress Report Grade: D
 
kind of hard for a punt returner to show what he can do in practice other than catching balls
 
Coach said:
I asked if there are ANY WR's in the NFL that return kicks that short and slow. Not one person answered. I'm not changing anything here. I do not think he makes the team. That has been very consistant, and I even offered Coolie a fun bet on that point.
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Jeremy Kerley New York Jets. 5'9 4.56 40 time.

Lead the league in PR yards last year. You were saying?????

Wes Welker was 5.9 with a 4.65 40 time and was a successful returner as well.
 
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The fact that coach tries to say that someone running a 4.5 is way faster and makes a huge difference compared to someone running a 4.6 is hilarious to me.
 
Steelerfan81 said:
The fact that coach tries to say that someone running a 4.5 is way faster and makes a huge difference compared to someone running a 4.6 is hilarious to me.
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When you consider Jerry Rice was basically a 4.6 guy makes it even more hilarious.

Rice, for the record, ran the dash in 4.59 seconds, according to the late Bill Walsh. (Rice bristled at the thought of recording something above 4.6 seconds but also didn’t run the 4.37 that NFL Media’s made-up “Jerry Ricecake” ran at the Scouting Combine.)
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Coach said:
The Steelers selected Demarcus Ayers to compete as a punt returner and potentially help out as a slot receiver. However, it seems that his diminutive counterpart Eli Rogers has received most of the praise throughout training camp, as Rogers has been the primary punt returner and has even been getting reps as the 1st-team slot receiver. That is not to say that Ayers has shown nothing so far in camp. Ayers has gotten time as both a punt returner and a kick returner and has shown sure hands on offense when given the opportunity. With the emergence of Rogers and Sammie Coates, it appears that the receiving group is getting crowded so the only way Ayers is going to have a chance of making the 53-man roster is because of an injury to another receiver or to crack it as a punt returner for the Steelers. I personally like Ayers skillset but am currently am not holding my breath. It will be hard to gauge just how valuable Ayers is to the Steelers when the preseason games get underway.




Progress Report Grade: D
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Isn't this what we've been saying for weeks now.. SMH
 
the fact that there is so much talk over a 7th rounder and his chances to make the team amuses me. Wow, going way out on a limb saying a 7th round pick won't make the team...well no ****...as most here have said the odds are against him, especially seeing the logjam at WR...but where coach will be wrong is the reason he keeps bleating about...he will not be cut because of his size and speed....especially since he and Rogers are basically the same size and speed...Ayers has to excel in the PR game and show some flashes at WR to have a shot. That is what I have said since he was drafted...
 
Archer ran over 1oo PAGES of interest, SURELY Ayers can reach 10.


Salute the nation
 
and Archer was nothing....Ayers is a future Hall of Famer!!!!!!!
 
Steelerfan81 said:
The fact that coach tries to say that someone running a 4.5 is way faster and makes a huge difference compared to someone running a 4.6 is hilarious to me.
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I'd rather my return man run 4.4 or better. Yes, there is a difference between 4.5 and 4.6 speed. 4.6 is slow for an NFL WR. If your very small, you'd better be lighting quick and fast in pads.

I also prefer combine times over pro day times. Ever notice how guys always run a little faster on a pro day? Ayers combine time with a cast on his hand was 4.71. He improved to 4.58 and 4.6 I bet it was a faster track.
 
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nooneuno said:
Jeremy Kerley New York Jets. 5'9 4.56 40 time.

Lead the league in PR yards last year. You were saying?????

Wes Welker was 5.9 with a 4.65 40 time and was a successful returner as well.
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Good info! Technicality. I said 5'9" or under playing today. Jeremy 5'9 1/2 :) Almost :) So there is just 1 return man that small and slow starting today out of 32 teams. Ya wanna play those odds?

Kerley had 8.6 yards per punt return in 2015. He was 15th in the NFL in terms of average returns per kick. Very average.

Welker isn't returning kick or punts today.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/returns.htm
 
Coach said:
I'd rather my return man run 4.4 or better. Yes, there is a difference between 4.5 and 4.6 speed. 4.6 is slow for an NFL WR. If your very small, you'd better be lighting quick and fast in pads.

I also prefer combine times over pro day times. Ever notice how guys always run a little faster on a pro day? Ayers combine time with a cast on his hand was 4.71. He improved to 4.58 and 4.6 likely on a faster track.
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there is more to being a WR or Returner than straight line speed. the best returners, have the ability to set up a defender with a quick move and either break open or evade a tackle. Ayers has that ability, which is why he was drafted.

The Raiders under Al Davis loved to draft fast guys...how did that work out for them?
 
CoolieMan said:
the fact that there is so much talk over a 7th rounder and his chances to make the team amuses me. Wow, going way out on a limb saying a 7th round pick won't make the team...well no ****...as most here have said the odds are against him, especially seeing the logjam at WR...but where coach will be wrong is the reason he keeps bleating about...he will not be cut because of his size and speed....especially since he and Rogers are basically the same size and speed...Ayers has to excel in the PR game and show some flashes at WR to have a shot. That is what I have said since he was drafted...
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Okay Coolie, we'll leave it at that. Its not like we spent a 3rd round pick here.
 
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