Jarvis Jones - will the light ever come on?
- Thread starter Spike
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I was focusing on the he is not even close to one of the top ILbers in the league /look around and see - comment.
But yeah pro bowls don't always mean a lot. some times it is based off past reputation.
I just think Timmons gets too much hate... Kirkland was a beast, but he probably couldn't play these days, because while he was a freak in his days, the TEs he would have to cover these days are just totally outmatching the old bigger run stuffers. Earl Holmes too, great big ILB when stopping the run was first and foremost, but by the end of his time in the NFL the game had already morphed to where he wasn't as useful... The game has been changed too much... small quick wrs and RBs that would have been broken in half about 2 games into the season in the old days can run rampant these days... if you don't have the ILbs that can at least try to keep up you get gashed. its why you saw Farrior and Lewis drop serious weight near the end of their playing days...
Jones has done absolutely nothing to earn anyone's respect, He currently is on a path of mediocrity that will get him a true "bust" Label if he doesn't turn it around, but Timmons is a quality LB and borderline star. I get the feeling people hating on him are doing so because they either hated the pick back in the day and need to justify that or because he represents a scheme and style of D in the NFL that they wish wasn't necessary.
Jones has done absolutely nothing to earn anyone's respect, He currently is on a path of mediocrity that will get him a true "bust" Label if he doesn't turn it around, but Timmons is a quality LB and borderline star. I get the feeling people hating on him are doing so because they either hated the pick back in the day and need to justify that or because he represents a scheme and style of D in the NFL that they wish wasn't necessary.
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You know this how exactly?
Of course timmons doesn't play like Porter or Harrison. He doesn't play their ******* position. He's no HOFer, but he is a good ILB and should have been in multiple pro bowls.
Kirkland was great until he gained too much weight and slowed down.
If Jones was picked 3rd round or lower we wouldn't care so much. From a 1st round pick you expect better. I was willing to give the guy a chance but I was suspicious from the beginning because of his back problems and if he'd be able to get strong enough to play in the NFL, plus we already knew he was kinda slow.
If Jones was picked 3rd round or lower we wouldn't care so much. From a 1st round pick you expect better. I was willing to give the guy a chance but I was suspicious from the beginning because of his back problems and if he'd be able to get strong enough to play in the NFL, plus we already knew he was kinda slow.
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Kirkland, in his prime was fast,..........very fastr. He definately could play in todays game. I wished we had a "KIRKLAND" type, our "D" would improve.
Salute the nation
I loved Kirkland, but lets be honest here... Kirkland was fast for a bigger lb, but he was not in the league of todays ILB's. In the mid 90's there were few TEs like shannon sharpe, who are more of the prototypical Tes these days, and they gave him (and everyone else) fits.. Part of what made Kirkland stand out was that the blitzburgh scheme was asking ILBs and Dlinemen to zone cover in ways that no one else was doing. all of that stuff is staple in todays NFL... its easy to overlook.
it was also a lot easier to uses guys like that in coverage when the receivers were still forced to be a little physical to get open and it was hard to go over the middle. Now the league is saturated with wes welker types who are allowed to break inside untouched and allowed to catch a ball without getting obliterated, which means you see more of the hybrid safety at ILB.
Much like Dawson or Webster, who were at the pinnacle of their positions in their times, would likely have trouble playing with the oline and Dline weights where they are at these days, different NFL eras breed different skillsets in its stars. Timmons is an evolution. Shazier is also along those lines... perhaps one day a team will finally go back to a power run game and force another change, but until the passing rules are tightened, its likely we see more smaller quicker ILBs on D.
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But Timmons was drafted to play their position. Let's not forget that the main reason the Timmons pick was so hated is because the steelers were in a similar situation as when Jarvis was selected. They desperately needed new pass rushers.
Timmons was drafted and while many draft people assumed he would play ILB, Tomlin made a point of saying he was drafted to play OLB because he was a great pass rusher. That was a joke. That's why their was hate for the pick because Tomlin had just drafted a Tampa 2 OLB and told us he would be the next Joey Porter.
The only reason it worked out was because the got Woodley in Rd 2 and James Harrison just emerged from nobody to unstoppable force. Timmons was then able to quietly be moved inside. And then it took him 3 years to earn the starting spot. It then took another 2 before he was actually good.
I think you are massively overestimating Kirkland's speed,The guy was quick, but he was quick for a 280 lb linebacker.. he ran a 5.0 40... that was fast in the 90's. guys these days run 4.6 or better... he might be our slowest linebacker right now.
and not everyone has the frame to carry extra weight and be effective... Dawson was a huge olineman back in the day, especially at center, and at 6-2 290 he would probably be our smallest today. When he did bulk up later in his career, its hard to say how effective he was because his knee injuries started. Webster played at 255 lbs... speculating he could just eat more and bulk up over 300 and still be the force he was is silly.
Timmons ran a 4.6, Spense a 4.7, Shazier a 4.4, Dupree a 4.6, in fact the closest to Kirkland's 40 time was Jarvis Jones, at 4.9 and not anywhere close to 275 or 280....
Timmons runs in the wrong direction from time to time but he gets to the wrong place really fast.
It's a good thing our coaching staff was smart enough to keep him inside where he excelled then...
So almost every Draft study you find from 1980 on lists the success rate at 50% for 1st rounders.. one out of 2 first rounders never become impact players. its hard to find anything that looks at these things till 5 years down the road or so, but its also pretty clear everything judging 2007 as average in the first round, where exactly 50% of the players busted... 2008 and 2009 had much less talent in those drafts. overall they were some of the most pathetic in recent times. in those drafts a full 2/3rds of the players taken in the first round became Non impact players... Mendenhall and Hood both are listed in multiple in depth studies as "busts" here, despite both starting for a time.
Typically the linebacker position is one of the safer positions to pick in the first round... the averages say that it has one of the lowest bust rates, typically around 30% for anything looking at 5 years or more of data. I guess what I am saying here is that we have had an abnormally great track record with finding linebackers in every round, and we are probably due for another real high one to disappoint with the shear quantity that we have taken high of late.
Typically the linebacker position is one of the safer positions to pick in the first round... the averages say that it has one of the lowest bust rates, typically around 30% for anything looking at 5 years or more of data. I guess what I am saying here is that we have had an abnormally great track record with finding linebackers in every round, and we are probably due for another real high one to disappoint with the shear quantity that we have taken high of late.
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Jones was a swing and a miss. The Steelers in the past were not big on data analytics. I read they are warming up to the idea. At any rate, Jarvis Jones worked out like a rookie free agent.
He's just too limited athletically, and not strong, quick, big, or fast enough to make up for it.
Essentially the Steelers play Jones like a 4-3 end. He's too slow for coverage, and really is just okay as a reserve pass rusher. His value as a kick coverage person on special teams is next to zero as well.
He's just too limited athletically, and not strong, quick, big, or fast enough to make up for it.
Essentially the Steelers play Jones like a 4-3 end. He's too slow for coverage, and really is just okay as a reserve pass rusher. His value as a kick coverage person on special teams is next to zero as well.
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Please repeat this. I haven't quite grasped it the first couple of thousand times everyone posted it. Maybe the next time will be the charm for me..
I think for OLB in the Steelers defense you need to be tough and very physical in your style of play ala James Harrison. I haven't seen anything even close to that from Jarvis Jones as he seems to me like more of a finesse type of guy. And I don't expect to see it this year either....he is just not that type of player and never will be. The Steelers as an organization need to move on from Jarvis Jones but I don't think they will this year. My concern is loosing good young talent like the loss of Josh Mauro last season. I hope the same thing doesn't happen to Anthony Chickillo this season.
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I'd love to see Tomlin give Jarvis the Landry Jones treatment. They seem hell bent on forcing Landry to develop into a QB this preseason, giving him every opportunity.
I just don't understand the urgency that they absolutely must get their 3rd QB up to speed but their staring OLB? Nah, he'll be just fine. I'm sure he'll flip the switch come regular season.
How about you tell Jarvis he's not coming out of the game until he gets a sack. Hell, give him permission to blow off his run duties just to show he actually can get a sack on a play other than when he's unblocked or the QB holds the ball for like 7 seconds.
I just don't understand the urgency that they absolutely must get their 3rd QB up to speed but their staring OLB? Nah, he'll be just fine. I'm sure he'll flip the switch come regular season.
How about you tell Jarvis he's not coming out of the game until he gets a sack. Hell, give him permission to blow off his run duties just to show he actually can get a sack on a play other than when he's unblocked or the QB holds the ball for like 7 seconds.
It would be hard to tell when he did blow off his run duties or sack duties for that matter. We might be better off to see if Joey and Harrison can split snaps this year, Joey needs 2 more to get to a hundred, and jarvis needs 2 more to get to 5
From what I've been hearing at camp so far is that Chickillo is now also getting some time at ROLB too. This kid might actually become Jarvis Jones eventual replacement and it wouldn't surprise me in the least!
JJ is on borrowed time and the coaching staff and front office know it too! This is why you will see Chickillo make the final roster!
JJ is on borrowed time and the coaching staff and front office know it too! This is why you will see Chickillo make the final roster!
Dave needs to put JJ in the banner.
he and Dri.
he and Dri.