Jarvis Jones - will the light ever come on?

[Ron Burgundy]

The light coming on refers to a player where they have the physical capabilities, but they are thinking too much and it is slowing them down. I don't think that is the case with Jarvis. He was put into the starting roster early because he played 3-4 OLB extensively in college. He had the pedigree so to speak. Problem is that he doesn't have the physical tools.

Exactly. The light is on. I think the brain is willing but the strength and speed isn't there.

 

[Drink IRON City]

There's a reason we call him "uncle jarvis" and it sure isn't because he comes to our birthday parties..............




Salute the nation

 

[Punxsutawney]

My big problem with the criticism that Jarvis Jones gets, and Landry Jones in the other thread, is there is always an undercurrent of something else. It can't just be that these guys don't have it. It has to be this analysis of the Tomlin/Colbert drafting philosophy which goes across the spectrum from "they suck" to some deep thoughts about player/cost ratio analysis or something.

I didn't like the Jarvis Jones pick, either, but I don't think Tomlin and Colbert should be fired over it. They all make mistakes. However, in that draft, while they didn't do a great job with the 1st rounder, do they get any credit for drafting arguable the best player in the whole draft in RD2? At least this argument makes more sense than a whole thread on a 3rd string QB.

I do also think pressure and coverage go hand and hand. Sure, an OLB just has to beat a tackle quickly for a sack every now and then like Harrison did the other night. He is special, though. As special as he is, imagine how many more he might have if they can simply disrupt the timing of throws a little by making the QB hold that ball, just a little. They do that by holding that initial coverage.

The issue myself and others had with the pick was that it was rather obvious he did not possess the size/speed ratio to succeed, yet Tombert considered him one of the top five overall prospects in that draft? Seriously?

It was a gross misevaluation, and when they do **** like draft Jarvis, acting like Lawrence Taylor fell into laps, choose Cortez Allen over Keenan Lewis, waste mid round picks on a midget RB and a bum QB, and it taking a guy they had just traded for to get hurt for them to Kelvin Beachum a shot, it's hard to have much confidence in the judgment of the coach and GM.

 

[Vader]

Year 1: Thrown to the wolves by Lebeau.
Year 2: Breaks wrist early in the season..
Year 3: Still having mobility issues with wrist.(Coaching staff easing him into preseason games)

Come on guys. Give him a fair shake.

This is why DL can't win. Remember everyone bitching about not playing young guys? He plays Jones and people ***** about "being thrown to the wolves". Damned if he does damned if he doesn't. Jones was a 24 year old rookie year before last. He played in a 3-4 in college. He was an OLB in college. He was suppose to be able to come in and play right away. Now because he isn't good enough DL shouldn't have played him as much?

My big problem with the criticism that Jarvis Jones gets, and Landry Jones in the other thread, is there is always an undercurrent of something else. It can't just be that these guys don't have it. It has to be this analysis of the Tomlin/Colbert drafting philosophy which goes across the spectrum from "they suck" to some deep thoughts about player/cost ratio analysis or something.

I didn't like the Jarvis Jones pick, either, but I don't think Tomlin and Colbert should be fired over it. They all make mistakes.

The issue I have isn't just with Jones. Jones is symbolic of all that is wrong with Tombert's draft analysis. They are giddy when he runs a slow time. When he sucks at his pro-day they are creaming their panties. Why? Now they have a chance to draft a guy that is falling like a brick. But why would you want to draft someone who's measurables are so bad? Because they are so good at drafting defensive players? Last year was the worst defense in the burgh since Noll's last year. Almost every starter is back with Gay, Timmons, and W. Allen being a year older.

Also should Butler play Dupree? Or will that be throwing him to the wolves?

 

[diver]

This is why DL can't win. Remember everyone bitching about not playing young guys? He plays Jones and people ***** about "being thrown to the wolves". Damned if he does damned if he doesn't. Jones was a 24 year old rookie year before last. He played in a 3-4 in college. He was an OLB in college. He was suppose to be able to come in and play right away. Now because he isn't good enough DL shouldn't have played him as much?



The issue I have isn't just with Jones. Jones is symbolic of all that is wrong with Tombert's draft analysis. They are giddy when he runs a slow time. When he sucks at his pro-day they are creaming their panties. Why? Now they have a chance to draft a guy that is falling like a brick. But why would you want to draft someone who's measurables are so bad? Because they are so good at drafting defensive players? Last year was the worst defense in the burgh since Noll's last year. Almost every starter is back with Gay, Timmons, and W. Allen being a year older.

Also should Butler play Dupree? Or will that be throwing him to the wolves?

I hope I am clear that I am not defending the pick. I did not like it either. My buddy and I were talking before the draft and I said I hope they don't take the guy. He seemed to just run around at Georgia. However, I have gone back into the 2013 first round, and it isn't like there is a lot of great players staring back at you, until you get to Bell in RD2. In retrospect, I wonder if they should have seen if a trade down was there, got lower in RD1 and maybe Zach Ertz? With Miller coming off the knee. I don't know. I am not a fan of taking corners in RD1, unless you are high up there and he is special. With the rules enforcement, hell, they can't do anything.

I balk a little bit at the draft analysis stuff. They miss it appears on Jarvis Jones, but they hit a home run on Bell the next round. They find Antonio Bryant. They screw the pooch with Archer. Is it some symbolic thing, or is it just what every team goes through, they make good picks and mistakes on others, and it is no deeper than that.

I agree with you about thrown to the wolves. ****, you draft a guy in the 1st round, he should be able to contribute. I don't think that is a viable excuse.

 

[diver]

The issue myself and others had with the pick was that it was rather obvious he did not possess the size/speed ratio to succeed, yet Tombert considered him one of the top five overall prospects in that draft? Seriously?

It was a gross misevaluation, and when they do **** like draft Jarvis, acting like Lawrence Taylor fell into laps, choose Cortez Allen over Keenan Lewis, waste mid round picks on a midget RB and a bum QB, and it taking a guy they had just traded for to get hurt for them to Kelvin Beachum a shot, it's hard to have much confidence in the judgment of the coach and GM.

I responded to some of gthis to Vader as it pertains to Jones, but I would have taken Allen over Lewis at the time. Lewis, AT THE TIME, didn't turn the ball over. Allen seemed to have a nose for it. In retrospect, sure, Lewis over Allen. The Archer pick was dumb. No defense there except all teams take chances at times on guys they think could be big play threats. I can't remember the Kelvin Beachum scenario.

 

[RollRed]

It is impossible to argue with all of you know it alls, but JJ wasn't as bad as you make him out. He let the qb get around him on the TD. Otherwise, he held his ground on the edge.

As for the pass rush, I have news for you. Until the Steelers can cover someone even a little bit, you could have JJ Watt out there and it wouldn't make much difference. They have been running the defense for so long, teams just do 3 and 5 step drops and get it out. Until they can get guys who can hold coverage a little and disrupt the timing of these throws, JJ and even Harrison are going to struggle to get sacks/pressure.

You have it completely backwards. Good pass defense BEGINS with a good pass rush. You could have Deion Sanders and Rod Woodson in coverage and it wouldn't matter if the QB has all day to find an open man. Simply put, the receiver knows where he is going and the DB does not, so they're going to get separation at some point. Hopefully when the separation occurs the QB is either on his back or running for his life. If he's standing upright in the pocket, however, he's gonna find the open man.

 

[Spike]

Spike=Coach

I should kick you in the nuts

 

[diver]

You have it completely backwards. Good pass defense BEGINS with a good pass rush. You could have Deion Sanders and Rod Woodson in coverage and it wouldn't matter if the QB has all day to find an open man. Simply put, the receiver knows where he is going and the DB does not, so they're going to get separation at some point. Hopefully when the separation occurs the QB is either on his back or running for his life. If he's standing upright in the pocket, however, he's gonna find the open man.

It is not an either/or situation. My point is that with all the 3 and 5 step drops, especially the 3, and the out of the shotgun, take the snap and quick throw stuff, you are not going to get great pressure. To me the only way to do that in those situations is to try to disrupt the QB and were he wants to go by jamming receivers. You make the QB hitch, now pressure has an impact. Nowhere have I stated that pass rush isn't important. I just think the Steelers or any team for that matter, until they find DBs (if there are any) that can consistently jam and disrupt timing, you are not going to see huge sack totals.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I responded to some of gthis to Vader as it pertains to Jones, but I would have taken Allen over Lewis at the time. Lewis, AT THE TIME, didn't turn the ball over. Allen seemed to have a nose for it. In retrospect, sure, Lewis over Allen. The Archer pick was dumb. No defense there except all teams take chances at times on guys they think could be big play threats. I can't remember the Kelvin Beachum scenario.

After Mike Adams screwed the pooch at LT the first month of the 2013 season, the Steelers traded for Levi Brown, who if he had not been injured before taking a snap with the Steelers, we may have never known of what Beachum was capable.

Had Beachum started the year at LT like he should have, they do not start 0-4 and they make the playoffs.

 

[Vader]

I hope I am clear that I am not defending the pick. I did not like it either. My buddy and I were talking before the draft and I said I hope they don't take the guy. He seemed to just run around at Georgia. However, I have gone back into the 2013 first round, and it isn't like there is a lot of great players staring back at you, until you get to Bell in RD2. In retrospect, I wonder if they should have seen if a trade down was there, got lower in RD1 and maybe Zach Ertz? With Miller coming off the knee. I don't know. I am not a fan of taking corners in RD1, unless you are high up there and he is special. With the rules enforcement, hell, they can't do anything.

I balk a little bit at the draft analysis stuff. They miss it appears on Jarvis Jones, but they hit a home run on Bell the next round. They find Antonio Bryant. They screw the pooch with Archer. Is it some symbolic thing, or is it just what every team goes through, they make good picks and mistakes on others, and it is no deeper than that.

I agree with you about thrown to the wolves. ****, you draft a guy in the 1st round, he should be able to contribute. I don't think that is a viable excuse.

My issues with Jones is two fold. One, the player wasn't worth a 1st round draft pick.. especially a high first round draft pick. He was horrible at his pro-day and had to be moved around in college. He was a pure effort guy that got sacks simply by having a non-stop motor. But he had no pass rushing moves other than effort. Two, I don't think Tombert is capable of drafting defensive players well because they are trying to morph the 3-4 into some futuristic 4-3 hybrid that doesn't have the ability to stop the run or the pass. They have 4 1st round picks at LB. Not 2nd or 3rd rounders but 4 1st round picks. They were all drafted because they have speed and fit the "new" system. Dupree is the only one that has any size. They all look good on paper but when they play on the field they aren't getting it done. They have the DL trying to rush the QB which opens up lanes for RBs. That's why I think Jones is symbolic of their drafting style.

 

[diver]

My issues with Jones is two fold. One, the player wasn't worth a 1st round draft pick.. especially a high first round draft pick. He was horrible at his pro-day and had to be moved around in college. He was a pure effort guy that got sacks simply by having a non-stop motor. But he had no pass rushing moves other than effort. Two, I don't think Tombert is capable of drafting defensive players well because they are trying to morph the 3-4 into some futuristic 4-3 hybrid that doesn't have the ability to stop the run or the pass. They have 4 1st round picks at LB. Not 2nd or 3rd rounders but 4 1st round picks. They were all drafted because they have speed and fit the "new" system. Dupree is the only one that has any size. They all look good on paper but when they play on the field they aren't getting it done. They have the DL trying to rush the QB which opens up lanes for RBs. That's why I think Jones is symbolic of their drafting style.

Yea, it's hard to argue with that I guess looking at their defense. I like Timmons better than some, though, and I think Shazier could be good. Dupree? Who knows. And I agree about Jones.

You depressed me. I will have to go kick the dog.

I just messing around.

 

[black and gold apex]

We all as Steeler fans root for them all. When a player is drafted high and has been given high potential and has yet to even act as if he cares than the boos need to come out. Jarvis deserves the booooooss.

 

[Vader]

Yea, it's hard to argue with that I guess looking at their defense. I like Timmons better than some, though, and I think Shazier could be good. Dupree? Who knows. And I agree about Jones.

You depressed me. I will have to go kick the dog.

I just messing around.

Timmons is fine if he has better people around him. If Timmons is your best player you are in trouble. He's a solid LB but he isn't a Harrison or Porter type player. Dupree is raw. I liked the draft pick but he isn't ready yet. Shazier is a good player but he needs more experience. Harrison doesn't have much longer to play either. I wish I could see a light at the end of the tunnel. I just don't. I don't like the direction they are going on defense. I don't like trying to force square pegs in round holes.

Everything is going to be on the offense this year. The good thing is that they are loaded on offense with Ben, Bell, Brown, Miller, Bryant, Wheaton and Coates.

 

[Xc944]

You're dead on about timmons the other problem with tombert is theyre paying him as he best ilb in the league which he's not close to and its wasted money that does hurt the team

 

[Xc944]

I'm also not high on shazier he will make plays but to me he's exaclty like timmons will show flashes but lose more than he wins. He's just anotherbguy who's not strong enough or doesn't show it to be a every down plus player.

 

[freak]

are we realizing how many lbs tomlin drafted and how many high round picks he used ??????????

 

[madinsomniac]

Timmons is fine as a ILB... pro bowl level. The idea of a big run stopper in there at ILB died when TE's went from small tackles who could catch a little to big WR who can block a little

 

[TDX27]

I love how so many hate on Timmons. Most in the league, the true experts on football, think Timmons is one of the best. Just think of what they have asked Timmons to do over the years. He has pretty much played every linebacker position and excelled at it. He hasn't been able to hone is craft at one position and be a pro bowler year in and year out like he easily could have. He has done what the team needed and never bitched. I hope he gets to stay at his true position this year and puts up BIG numbers and another pro bowl.

 

[slashsteel]

I'm also not high on shazier he will make plays but to me he's exaclty like timmons will show flashes but lose more than he wins. He's just anotherbguy who's not strong enough or doesn't show it to be a every down plus player.

Ok I get he isn't a superstar, but to say Timmons loses more than he wins is a stretch.

Like Vader said if you have a better supporting cast Timmons is solid.

I think if Shazier blooms this year that will help the pass D as well as defending the run.

Shazier I think just needs a little more strength to kick off the rest of his impressive intangibles.

I think in the offseason he solved some of this issue.

But if he can add more strength during the season. Even better.

To me our D has more of the pieces necessary to move up in the rankings.

It will just have to have a few players step up consistently for it to happen.

Shazier - stay on the field add weight
Tuitt - improve in his second year shedding blocks.
Boykin- solidify one spot in the secondary
Cortez -Rebound off a dismal 2014 performance
Mitchell - stay healthy
Dupree - develop enough of a pass rush to be at least effective early in this area
Big Dan- get to where he is on the field rotating a little more.

I think besides major injuries if these things can align.

The D and the team will be looking impressive.

It is a significant amount of ifs, but not out of the realm of possibilities.

 

[Wingman]

Timmons is good, nothing special. He only looks great because of what he is compared to on the steelers team. He made one pro bowl one. His best attribute is his reliability meaning he is nearly always ready to play and to be good instead of great. He manages to have taken himself out of plays on occasion and that seems to be what keeps him from being great. Not sure who these true experts on football are that were mentioned above but they likely think the defense looks good this year too.

 

[Xc944]

He made one pro bowl because several pro bowl ilbs were hurt or coming off Injury. He's not close to a top ilb in the league. Look around and see

 

[slashsteel]

He made one pro bowl because several pro bowl ilbs were hurt or coming off Injury. He's not close to a top ilb in the league. Look around and see

not even sure how to respond to this one



k

 

[Wingman]

As to the original question with jarvis, the lights are on but nobody is home.

 

[diver]

not even sure how to respond to this one



k

How do you. Pro Bowls do not even matter. many times it is on reputation rather than actual play. How else can you explain Levon Kirkland making it in '98 and '99 and maybe even '00? He was a great player through '97, but got too fat after that. But he still made the Pro Bowl.

Not to digress, but he was one of my favorites of that era. What a year he had in '97. It is a shame he got too heavy really after that.