How much better wasn't Banner in comparison to Okorafor?

[Steelworth]

Agreed. Conner is better running north and south with a FB leading the way. Folks (including Fichtner unfortunately) seem to forget that his best running two years ago came with Nix leading the way.

Take into account Snell is more a North and South runner as well. I'm not sure what they did mainly at UK, but the guy would also seem to benefit running out of a traditional I formation. Ebron is pretty terrible so far w/ his inline blocking and Vance never much wowed me either, so go a little old school coach.

Ben worked defenses off of the play-action from I's in his early days.

 

[Hoot]

Take into account Snell is more a North and South runner as well. I'm not sure what they did mainly at UK, but the guy would also seem to benefit running out of a traditional I formation. Ebron is pretty terrible so far w/ his inline blocking and Vance never much wowed me either, so go a little old school coach.

Ben worked defenses off of the play-action from I's in his early days.

Yes, he is a north-south runner. That said, you don't need a FB to do it. I admit, I would love to see a Wishbone or Power I set with Watt, Conner, and Snell - alas, it aint' ever gonna happen. Too bad, could be fun. the important part is running upfield and not trying to stretch it side to side. We just ain'ts got the speed for to catch that corner.

 

[Coach]

Take into account Snell is more a North and South runner as well. I'm not sure what they did mainly at UK, but the guy would also seem to benefit running out of a traditional I formation. Ebron is pretty terrible so far w/ his inline blocking and Vance never much wowed me either, so go a little old school coach.

Ben worked defenses off of the play-action from I's in his early days.

Ebron is a weakling blocker. He cost us in red zone. McDonald looks fat and out of shape.


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[Drink IRON City]

Agreed. Conner is better running north and south with a FB leading the way. Folks (including Fichtner unfortunately) seem to forget that his best running two years ago came with Nix leading the way. Last year, with Nix hurt, Conner was not the same back as he was with a lead FB and eventually he wore down and was injured. So far this year, Fichtner has had the '"bell cow" in the game mostly without a FB and he's sucked. When Watt was in there leading the way today, Conner had his most effective runs.

Fitchner isn't going anywhere and has been holding this offense back for a few years now. Shame on SBWCMVLT for keeping his FRIEND as long as he has.

Maybe Canada is in the works but until then we will be able to have this conversation on a near weekly basis.





Salute the nation

 

[Stryker]

OK, so Polamalu wasn't a HOFer because of a big head, but you're willing to die on the HOF hill for a PUNTER????

Wow. Good thing for you is we won't know if he's a HOFer for about 30-40 years. He'll play for about 20, then he won't be looked at as a valid entrant because of skill positions...

So congrats. If that HOFer gets in the HOF, most of us will be dead...

 

[Ike Kelly]

Look, bud, I was just trying to clarify what your original point was because you used poor sentence structure, and your ambiguous statement was under attack from another poster.

But now that were into it...

What's clear enough is you're simply confused, because you want me to compare Guy's best years to Dickson's, then you go on to admit that punters have improved a lot in the last 30 or 40 years. OBVIOUSLY, things HAVE changed, because despite leading the league in punting average in three of his seasons (at 42.2, 43.3, and 43.8), Guy's best yearly number of 45.3 doesn't even crack the top 250 on the all-time punting list.

Let me know when this fellow Dickson (who's giving you such a raging hard-on) leads the NFL in punting average THREE TIMES, and we can continue the conversation.

The funny thing is Coach would be outright flaccid over Dickson (no pun intended) if he even knew Guy wasn’t the greatest NFL punter. Sammy Baugh was, and it wasn’t even his first position. Baugh has a career average better than Guy. Plus his longest punt would make Dickson’s look like a Pop Warner kid. He had 2 record over 80 yards.


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[Hoot]

He had 2 record over 80 yards.


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not taking anything away from SB and I don't recall the film of those kicks so I don't know if this applies. But, in those days a quick kick on 3rd down was not all that unusual. Generally there was nobody deep to field the kick so a ball that went end over end could roll forever. Again, don't know if that is the case with those two kicks, just adding some color to the era.

 

[Ike Kelly]

I know one of the punts went 85 yards because of the field being wet.

So slip and slide was probably a factor, but he AVERAGED for the year over 50 yards a kick a couple times as well. That’s voiced from the HOF attraction for Sammy.


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[Coach]

OK, so Polamalu wasn't a HOFer because of a big head, but you're willing to die on the HOF hill for a PUNTER????

Wow. Good thing for you is we won't know if he's a HOFer for about 30-40 years. He'll play for about 20, then he won't be looked at as a valid entrant because of skill positions...

So congrats. If that HOFer gets in the HOF, most of us will be dead...

Troy has zero to do with this thread. You might want to look up the amount of players that play for 20 years in the NFL, it's a really short list. Such longevity does help with the hall of fame vote. There's not such thing as a non valid entrant, the voting rules requires a strong majority and must cut down a list of impressive players. I'm disappointed in you Cope.

Also, I hope you you can live 30-40 more years.

Does Dickson have hall of fame talent? His career average is 46.8, with a net of 43.9

This is a list of the top 50 punters from the 1976-2020 seasons. Who has better average? No one. Who has a better net? Just one person. We are comparing him to history here.

https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-punting-netavg

I do think you're smart enough to change your tune on this topic. Cheers.

 

[Coach]

The funny thing is Coach would be outright flaccid over Dickson (no pun intended) if he even knew Guy wasn’t the greatest NFL punter. Sammy Baugh was, and it wasn’t even his first position. Baugh has a career average better than Guy. Plus his longest punt would make Dickson’s look like a Pop Warner kid. He had 2 record over 80 yards.


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Lol, the funny thing is... you assume what I know.


Well when Sammy played, wasn't the football a bit different and made for kicking? Also my instinct tells me the players fielding the ball these days are much better, hence the roll factor was greater in Baugh's time. Baugh was also more block prone. Strictly comparing them as punters.


**A historian would need to ring in, but back then they didn't punt as much and when they did they were really backed up. You see the low punt amount totals per season if you dig into the details and wonder why. Yes they played less games, that is not it. The punts per game seem very low to me. **


Dickson's career average is better than Baugh as well . So you can compare him to Guy or Baugh as a punter, those two at least historically speaking, are the gold standards, and guess what, he's better than both. Impressed now?


PS: I used Ray Guy as an example because he's the only pure punter in the HOF, I know who Slinging Sammy was. I will give you some rare credit; you seem to know something about the history of the game.
If you want to talk about early QB's who changed the game in Benny Friedman, or the first African American head coach in the NFL pre-Jackie Robison ( A very quiet fact that shouldn't be. ), you'll at least have me for a conversation. If mods want to start an NFL history section, you might like some of my stuff. I'll offer you a truce on those grounds.

 

[Ike Kelly]

After every post you make, you show you know less than you pretend to believe. Not to mention the fact you have significant cognitive/realization issues in regards to common rationalization.

To think you are comparing 2 years to 13+ years as a career is ludicrous and really explains why you communicate they way you do. Plus the fact you even specify Guy and Baugh as Gold Standard, but rationalize a 2 year player is better ALREADY than two HOF’s. So no, I’m not impressed. In fact I feel pity for you, that you don’t realize how obtuse you present yourself at times to a hidden public forum.

I can read your history stuff the same place you obtain it, via Google, Walter football, YouTube, etc.... you are not kidding anyone with “truce” offerings. You can’t even handle a straight bet without circumventing the particulars.


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[Coach]

After every post you make, you show you know less than you pretend to believe. Not to mention the fact you have significant cognitive/realization issues in regards to common rationalization.

To think you are comparing 2 years to 13+ years as a career is ludicrous and really explains why you communicate they way you do. Plus the fact you even specify Guy and Baugh as Gold Standard, but rationalize a 2 year player is better ALREADY than two HOF’s. So no, I’m not impressed. In fact I feel pity for you, that you don’t realize how obtuse you present yourself at times to a hidden public forum.

I can read your history stuff the same place you obtain it, via Google, Walter football, YouTube, etc.... you are not kidding anyone with “truce” offerings. You can’t even handle a straight bet without circumventing the particulars.


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I take it back, you remain a F'n idiot. I showed you point blank why he has hall of fame ability and compared him to the best in your small mind, and what do I get back? Actually I compared him to 50 players in both average and net. He was #1 and #2. But you don't think that means anything. What a joke you are.

In the stats Baugh as 338 punts listed. Dickson has 160 as of today. I'd say that is a big enough sample to compare.

I offered you a wager Dickson would be taken by round five, you tucked tail and backed out. Do I need to embarrass you further? I probably still have the PM. This is Dickson's third year by the way and he as already made all pro. Yes-- I know the history of the game, it appears far better than you. The truce offer was legit. Take off those dark shades, one day you might see the light.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

All this "angst" over a punter who has 2 seasons under his belt and is 2 games into his 3rd? How about we give the guy till year 5 at least to determine if he's on a trajectory to be "best that ever was"? Five years is a long time in the NFL and in the intervening 2 7/8 seasons, anything could happen. The kid could continue on the trajectory he's on now. He could develop a case of the "yips". Who knows?
I do know he's not a Steeler and his name is neither Banner nor Okorafor.

 

[Stryker]

Troy has zero to do with this thread. You might want to look up the amount of players that play for 20 years in the NFL, it's a really short list. Such longevity does help with the hall of fame vote. There's not such thing as a non valid entrant, the voting rules requires a strong majority and must cut down a list of impressive players. I'm disappointed in you Cope.

Also, I hope you you can live 30-40 more years.

Does Dickson have hall of fame talent? His career average is 46.8, with a net of 43.9

This is a list of the top 50 punters from the 1976-2020 seasons. Who has better average? No one. Who has a better net? Just one person. We are comparing him to history here.

https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-punting-netavg

I do think you're smart enough to change your tune on this topic. Cheers.

You brought up a HOF talent in a PUNTER, so HOF evaluation to HOF evaluation by you is SPOT ON! HOF punters would have to play about that long to be considered. Heck Ben's in year 17. I would put money on your HOF punter never making the HOF, but we won't be alive to see that payoff, unless he's out of the league before he reaches his HOF potential.

 

[Stryker]

I take it back, you remain a F'n idiot. I showed you point blank why he has hall of fame ability and compared him to the best in your small mind, and what do I get back? Actually I compared him to 50 players in both average and net. He was #1 and #2. But you don't think that means anything. What a joke you are.

In the stats Baugh as 338 punts listed. Dickson has 160 as of today. I'd say that is a big enough sample to compare.

I offered you a wager Dickson would be taken by round five, you tucked tail and backed out. Do I need to embarrass you further? I probably still have the PM. This is Dickson's third year by the way and he as already made all pro. Yes-- I know the history of the game, it appears far better than you. The truce offer was legit. Take off those dark shades, one day you might see the light.

Hang on, you want to crow about a 5th round evaluation of a punter? Seriously, it was dumb for the Steelers to use a 4th rounder on a punter? Punters can be grabbed in UDFA, and you're looking at what? a 2-3 yard difference on average per punt? That's called a waste of draft capital. I understand you don't use draft capital for punters, kickers or long snappers. Fullbacks are there now too. Use your pick on someone that can make a difference, not improve your punting net by 2yds...

 

[slashsteel]

I take it back, you remain a F'n idiot. I showed you point blank why he has hall of fame ability and compared him to the best in your small mind, and what do I get back? Actually I compared him to 50 players in both average and net. He was #1 and #2. But you don't think that means anything. What a joke you are.

In the stats Baugh as 338 punts listed. Dickson has 160 as of today. I'd say that is a big enough sample to compare.

I offered you a wager Dickson would be taken by round five, you tucked tail and backed out. Do I need to embarrass you further? I probably still have the PM. This is Dickson's third year by the way and he as already made all pro. Yes-- I know the history of the game, it appears far better than you. The truce offer was legit. Take off those dark shades, one day you might see the light.

You really shouldn't be calling anyone a joke, idiot, etc.

Besides he is right... far often you have backed out of a bet trying to reinvent the perimeters. You pretty much do it every time.

 

[topseed]

Does Dickson have hall of fame talent? His career average is 46.8, with a net of 43.9

This is a list of the top 50 punters from the 1976-2020 seasons. Who has better average? No one. Who has a better net? Just one person. We are comparing him to history here.

https://www.footballdb.com/leaders/career-punting-netavg

I take it back, you remain a F'n idiot. I showed you point blank why he has hall of fame ability and compared him to the best in your small mind, and what do I get back? Actually I compared him to 50 players in both average and net. He was #1 and #2. But you don't think that means anything. What a joke you are.

First of all, Dickson DOES NOT have the best average among all of those punters. Shane Lechler (47.6) and Johnny Hekker (47.0) have higher career numbers. DIckson IS NOT #1. He would be tied for #3. You can't even properly read a list from a link which YOU posted yourself.

Secondly, I can admit your boy has some good combined stats for his first two years and two games of the current era. That's nice. However, Dickson still hasn't led HIS CURRENT PEERS in either of his two complete seasons in average or net average, and last season he was IN THE BOTTOM HALF OF THE NFL IN BOTH CATEGORIES.

2018: 2nd in average, 6th in net average
2019: 20th in average, 19th in net average

You want to continue to dig yourself a bigger hole?

 

[Coach]

Hang on, you want to crow about a 5th round evaluation of a punter? Seriously, it was dumb for the Steelers to use a 4th rounder on a punter? Punters can be grabbed in UDFA, and you're looking at what? a 2-3 yard difference on average per punt? That's called a waste of draft capital. I understand you don't use draft capital for punters, kickers or long snappers. Fullbacks are there now too. Use your pick on someone that can make a difference, not improve your punting net by 2yds...

To clarify I thought he was special punter, and we could have had him in round 5. ( Not round 4 ) Not only would this have been a big time upgrade, he was much cheaper than Berry.

I'm okay with drafting a punter and kicker IF he's good AND he saves you money on the cap. It would have been a win-win. I laughed at the longer snapper pick, if you can remember. Now that was a waste of a 6th round pick.

At any rate, I do my own who I would have drafted in a thread every year. No one else does. We missed out on an All Pro. End of

The rest of this is noise from Ike Kelly who would not take my bet that he would be drafted by round five. He was wrong, as usual.

 

[Coach]

You really shouldn't be calling anyone a joke, idiot, etc.

Besides he is right... far often you have backed out of a bet trying to reinvent the perimeters. You pretty much do it every time.

You're a joke and he was wrong. I offer more bets than most, I just don't take the dumb ones.. No go back to giving everyone a thumbs up that disagrees with me, its what your best at here.

 

[6Lombardis]

At this point, the title of this thread needs to be changed. I was hoping to read recent discussion of our young O-line players.

 

[slashsteel]

You're a joke and he was wrong. I offer more bets than most, I just don't take the dumb ones.. No go back to giving everyone a thumbs up that disagrees with me, its what your best at here.

Your whole existence on this board is a joke. You are a pompous tool that is a factory of inaccuracy.

No worries I won't use the thumb this time.

 

[Stryker]

To clarify I thought he was special punter, and we could have had him in round 5. ( Not round 4 ) Not only would this have been a big time upgrade, he was much cheaper than Berry.

I'm okay with drafting a punter and kicker IF he's good AND he saves you money on the cap. It would have been a win-win. I laughed at the longer snapper pick, if you can remember. Now that was a waste of a 6th round pick.

At any rate, I do my own who I would have drafted in a thread every year. No one else does. We missed out on an All Pro. End of

The rest of this is noise from Ike Kelly who would not take my bet that he would be drafted by round five. He was wrong, as usual.

Well we didn't have a 5th round pick so which 4th rounders are you giving up for that punter? McFarland who you love, or Dotson who was the top rated pass pro guard in the league last week? Before you say you'd move up, that was impossible last year since the Steelers lacked the draft capital to move. Packaging a 6th and 7th doesn't get you to the 5th, and banking a future move definitely isn't worth the draft capital, because now you're giving up 2 draft slots for a punter.

The 4th rounder was Sepulveda (who the Steelers gave up another draft selection to move up, dumb..). The problem isn't recognizing great kicking and punting talent, and if they are 'pro bowl caliber' kickers, the problem is wasting draft capital on them.

Like I said the difference between the best punter in the league and an average punter is 2-4 yards. That's not worth a 4th, 5th, 6th, or even a 7th in my book. The best punters and kickers in the league are UDFAs. Look at the Ravens. They have 2 of the best, and may have the best kicker ever. Not drafted.

 

[Ike Kelly]

I take it back, you remain a F'n idiot. I showed you point blank why he has hall of fame ability and compared him to the best in your small mind, and what do I get back? Actually I compared him to 50 players in both average and net. He was #1 and #2. But you don't think that means anything. What a joke you are.

In the stats Baugh as 338 punts listed. Dickson has 160 as of today. I'd say that is a big enough sample to compare.

I offered you a wager Dickson would be taken by round five, you tucked tail and backed out. Do I need to embarrass you further? I probably still have the PM. This is Dickson's third year by the way and he as already made all pro. Yes-- I know the history of the game, it appears far better than you. The truce offer was legit. Take off those dark shades, one day you might see the light.

Ok Cool Breeze, define what “HOF ability” is. You can’t. Not after only 2 years in the league. If he lasts 10 years, and that’s a big IF, then you can argue in your idiotic brain out load why he could be HOF material. In the mean time, sit down/shut up and play with your Walter Football magazines. The adults are talking.

.....The rest of this is noise from Ike Kelly who would not take my bet that he would be drafted by round five. He was wrong, as usual.

BTW, I didn’t honor the bet because you kept changing the arrangement of the bet. Something you’ve done each time you cry “I’ll bet you!”. Also, his 5th round selection was a comp pick. Essentially a early 6th. Any $ saved from that pick between rounds would have been infinitesimal, because it would have been below the top 51 team cap. Dumb ***.


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