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How do you fix the United States?

Superman

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Because we need the people who earn 20k We need people to clean toilets as a society. Why **** on them? Why insult them? Why is it too much to ask that their lives don't have to be as crappy after work?
maybe because if your life ambition is to clean toilets, then you like **** and would welcome **** and be happy when **** on.
otherwise, learn a trade. learn how things work. make yourself more valuable to an employer.
it is hard work, but it can be done.
otherwise, clean toilets.

you put yourself through law school. i guesstimate you may make a good salary. should someone who can clean the **** out of a toilet be at the same income level as you?
 

ark steel

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maybe because if your life ambition is to clean toilets, then you like **** and would welcome **** and be happy when **** on.
otherwise, learn a trade. learn how things work. make yourself more valuable to an employer.
it is hard work, but it can be done.
otherwise, clean toilets.

you put yourself through law school. i guesstimate you may make a good salary. should someone who can clean the **** out of a toilet be at the same income level as you?


Some might equate being a lawyer to cleaning **** out of toilets. Not me, but some people.
 

JupiterBnG

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Because we need the people who earn 20k We need people to clean toilets as a society. Why **** on them? Why insult them? Why is it too much to ask that their lives don't have to be as crappy after work?

Who's ******** on them? You're the one that seems to have a low opinion of them, treating them like they NEED a handout. They seem to be content to do those jobs for that amount of pay. If they weren't, they would find ways to improve their situation. So either they literally CAN'T get a better job (which shouldn't be a problem if the economy weren't ******), or they DON'T WANT TO work any harder.

You still haven't explained why someone who makes more money but spends the same amount on subsistence as the low-wage worker should be penalized by being forced to pay more in taxes. The only explanation is that you want to redistribute wealth. The problem is that that plan doesn't redistribute wealth from the top down with our current income tax program, because the wealthiest people have ways to avoid reporting income (or have no income aside from interest income, or realized gains from investments).

A person with millions of dollars in the bank (let's say from an inheritance), a home and cars that are paid for, and no other debts or responsibilities COULD conceivably live a modest lifestyle on $20,000 per year in interest income, no different than your toilet-scrubber making $20,000. Both are spending 100% of their $20,000 income. Do you think that the person with the inheritance money should pay more just because he has more?

Now, do you realistically think the millionaire is actually going to live that lifestyle? That's where you're being short-sighted - someone making $20,000 is probably spending all of it on necessities. But someone making $40,000 is probably spending close to 100% of their income as well. And I would wager that a lot of people making $100,000 are spending close to 100% of their income as well (some are clearly living beyond their means and would actually be paying taxes on money they don't even HAVE). Do they each have different lifestyles? Absolutely. But if you figure a 10% sales tax, that means the toilet scrubber is paying $2,000 in taxes, the second guy is paying $4,000 and the third guy is paying $10,000. Is it possible the third guy will only spend $50,000? Sure, but he's still paying more than the other two, plus unless he's stuffing the other half of his money in a mattress, it's somewhere in the economy - either being loaned out by his bank or in the form of investments in business that are creating jobs. You may argue that it's subjective whether scrubbing toilets is harder work than sitting at a desk, but it's pretty objective who is paying more in taxes and whose money is harder at work in the economy.
 

EdReed4Prez

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That would mean a whole lot more toilet cleaners and a whole lot less lawyers. Vis might be onto something about how to fix the country...
 
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FordFairLane

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But as a society and with the advent of computers there are less and less jobs in most fields. Me for example I do the jobs of five people. My actual title spelled out is Bank Office Manager/Commercial Lender/Mortgage Loan Officer/Consumer Loan Office/Financial Rep/Assistant Vice President

I make a very good living fortunately but no where near 100k and when I see GE pays less in taxes than me it pisses me off. I think the Walton's can live off a few million a year and can pay their cashiers. $12 an hour with healthcare and retirement. Sorry if that's wrong of me it's my beliefs.
 

ark steel

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I make a very good living fortunately but no where near 100k and when I see GE pays less in taxes than me it pisses me off. I think the Walton's can live off a few million a year and can pay their cashiers. $12 an hour with healthcare and retirement. Sorry if that's wrong of me it's my beliefs.

It isn't "wrong" for you to have those beliefs and you can and if you believe it so strongly should do everything you can, within your own life, to not give the Walton's any of your hard earned money.

It is wrong to use government to force $12/hour plus healthcare and retirement for what is, essentially, a non-skilled job. The cashiers don't even have to know how to make change these days! Not even basic arithmetic needed to do the job. It is so easy, they now have self scanners and one person who can do it for multiple stations. What happens to those $7.25/hour jobs when you force a 65% pay increase with forced benefits? They go away and you get more self scanners.
 

FordFairLane

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It isn't "wrong" for you to have those beliefs and you can and if you believe it so strongly should do everything you can, within your own life, to not give the Walton's any of your hard earned money.

It is wrong to use government to force $12/hour plus healthcare and retirement for what is, essentially, a non-skilled job. The cashiers don't even have to know how to make change these days! Not even basic arithmetic needed to do the job. It is so easy, they now have self scanners and one person who can do it for multiple stations. What happens to those $7.25/hour jobs when you force a 65% pay increase with forced benefits? They go away and you get more self scanners.
The problem is there's less and less need for skilled labor. My job(s) eventually will be done on a computer or call center. What do you do for a living? Can you honestly say your career is safe 10, 20, or 30 years from now.
 

ark steel

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The problem is there's less and less need for skilled labor. My job(s) eventually will be done on a computer or call center. What do you do for a living? Can you honestly say your career is safe 10, 20, or 30 years from now.

I'm an actuary. A study last year showed 0% unemployment for actuaries. Of course, it can't actually be 0%, but it was low enough that the difference is irrelevant. Took me 10 years to get my designations. I grew up in rural Arkansas. It wasn't an easy road and I ****** up plenty of times along the way to make it harder. Could have had designations in 4-6 years. It was my fault I didn't.

In any event, my entire career is only available because of a tax structure I think is stupid and, as you can see above, I advocate to remove. I could do something else because I have the will to do so and the intellect to succeed.
 

FordFairLane

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I'm an actuary. A study last year showed 0% unemployment for actuaries. Of course, it can't actually be 0%, but it was low enough that the difference is irrelevant. Took me 10 years to get my designations. I grew up in rural Arkansas. It wasn't an easy road and I ****** up plenty of times along the way to make it harder. Could have had designations in 4-6 years. It was my fault I didn't.

In any event, my entire career is only available because of a tax structure I think is stupid and, as you can see above, I advocate to remove. I could do something else because I have the will to do so and the intellect to succeed.

Just an example, we just got a new software system for our mortgage processing because of the Dodd Frank regs. As a result half of our underwriters will be unemployed.
 
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Because we need the people who earn 20k We need people to clean toilets as a society. Why **** on them? Why insult them? Why is it too much to ask that their lives don't have to be as crappy after work?

Their goal should be to move up, however gradually. Into management, ownership, another career, etc. No reputable job pays $20K in perpetuity with no opportunities for increasing pay or upward mobility. The folks you're referring to are theoretical and/or the type that switch jobs every few months, either voluntarily or otherwise. Folks whose only career moves, if any, are lateral.

The reason that the toilet-cleaners have more difficult lives is because their vocations are not as difficult and do not require as much effort. You make a hefty salary because you went to law school and presumably built yourself a practice. You deserve more pay, and you require it to maintain your practice.

This is why I roll my eyes when Wal-Mart cashiers complain about their pay. I understand that you only make $9/hr. That's why your goal should be to move UP, either within the company or outside of it. The cashier job sucks because it's (a) mind-numbingly easy and requires no education or training, and (b) designed as a stepping stone for new workers or a desperation job for retirees
 

Ron Burgundy

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The problem is there's less and less need for skilled labor. My job(s) eventually will be done on a computer or call center. What do you do for a living? Can you honestly say your career is safe 10, 20, or 30 years from now.
My cleaning company is for sale (has been for quite some time) and at age 52 I started school to be a mortician. Somebody's gotta do it.
There will always be low wage jobs but for one thing if you stop the tide of illegals then you take away their cost advantage and businesses will have to pay more for legit workers. Supply and demand. Except that no one in the govt really wants to seal the border.
 

MT~Forged

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The sales tax has to be 30%. That's in addition to all state and muni sales taxes. Since no income to low too pay the tax, the income needed to survive goes way up, benefits need to go up to cover it, etc... And the rich can dodge the tax by buying overseas.

**** that, All Fed, State, County, Local need to learn to live on what they are given. Raise it to 30% , same thing applies. The rich can dodge all they want by buying overseas, just can't bring that **** back to the States without paying taxes on it.
 

EdReed4Prez

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Regardless of the tax approach... It's all meaningless unless we have a government that will only spend what is taxed.
 

Hineswardkickedurpanzyass

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My brother was killed by a paranoid schizophrenic when he decided to drive head first into oncoming traffic. Left behind a fiancé and daughter because someone didn't like the way their meds made them feel so he got drunk tried to kill someone who talked to a girl who he liked but didn't even know his name they pulled him off the guy and he decided to end it all by killing my brother. **** crazy people! What value do they bring to society? Tell me ONE thing some crazy **** who talks to himself and can't even get a job bagging groceries gives back to society? NOTHING!

It sucks ur bro was killed, but my son is bi polar... Should we off him? I cannot wait to get further into this thread to see what other moronic ideas u have...I do have one suggestion, go ******* kill urself
 

Vis

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**** that, All Fed, State, County, Local need to learn to live on what they are given. Raise it to 30% , same thing applies. The rich can dodge all they want by buying overseas, just can't bring that **** back to the States without paying taxes on it.

So they pay what kind of taxes on it? It's not a sales tax at that point, it's an asset tax. Now it's not as simple. Soon it will be 2600 pages.
 

hamster

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I might agree with some of this but I never agree with scrapping what there is until the replacement is drafted and subjected to review and debate.

LOL. Therefore, you were the first and loudest voice that demanded absolute scrutiny of the AHCA before being railroaded through Congress without even being read. LMFAO.
 

Vader

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LOL. Therefore, you were the first and loudest voice that demanded absolute scrutiny of the AHCA before being railroaded through Congress without even being read. LMFAO.

Karma.....
 

MT~Forged

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Just an example, we just got a new software system for our mortgage processing because of the Dodd Frank regs. As a result half of our underwriters will be unemployed.

Good, now we will only have half the people to cook the books.
 

Vincent

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...and at age 52 I started school to be a mortician. Somebody's gotta do it.

Oh Ron, Ron, Ron. You didn't really think the left overlooked that segment of the economy, did you?

contrailscience.com_skitch_skitched_20130312_170814.jpg
 

MT~Forged

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So they pay what kind of taxes on it? It's not a sales tax at that point, it's an asset tax. Now it's not as simple. Soon it will be 2600 pages.

Bullshit. Yeah, all these rich ******* are going to go spend their money overseas, wgere taxes are much more. You are full of ****.
 

FordFairLane

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It sucks ur bro was killed, but my son is bi polar... Should we off him? I cannot wait to get further into this thread to see what other moronic ideas u have...I do have one suggestion, go ******* kill urself

If your son is a danger to society and cannot or will not be controlled by medication, yes.
 

FordFairLane

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MT~Forged

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You have no idea what an underwriter does.

That I will admit is true. Was it not the underwriters who helped with all the bad loans that were the center of the housing mess?
 
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