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Covid Vaccine

SteelerInLebanon said:
Isn’t this the very reason we don’t have a vaccine against the common cold and the reason the flu vaccine is usually less than 50% effective? this shouldn’t be a real surprise to everyone. We will be getting a COVID vaccine included in the flu vaccine that si based on best guesses yearly I would imagine. I don’t see one vaccine covering all the mutations just like with the flu.
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Yep. But of course there's going to be even more wailing and gnashing of teeth about boosters or annual vaccines because of the widespread belief that they are just some evil hoax to defraud people out of their money.

The only thing that seems to motivate people to get vaxxed is seeing hospitalizations and deaths piling up, sadly. When we had a really bad flu season awhile back with lots of deaths that was a huge year for vaccination. Human nature I guess.
 
Can we get a poll going for the next “big strain” name after delta goes away? I’m going with I. Ivan.
 
More mask hypocrisy form your Democrats in congress. Video is about half way down.

www.foxnews.com

AOC puts on mask for picture, removes it afterward, video shows

Ocasio-Cortez dropped her coronavirus mask after the photo op with protesters in support of the eviction moratorium, where she was joined by fellow progressive Senator Ed Markey, D-Mass.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
Isn’t this the very reason we don’t have a vaccine against the common cold and the reason the flu vaccine is usually less than 50% effective? this shouldn’t be a real surprise to everyone. We will be getting a COVID vaccine included in the flu vaccine that si based on best guesses yearly I would imagine. I don’t see one vaccine covering all the mutations just like with the flu.
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And when there is a fully approved FDA vaccine, I'll feel better about not getting that one annually as I similarly ignore the flu vaccine as I have my entire life.
 
oneforthebus said:
Yep. But of course there's going to be even more wailing and gnashing of teeth about boosters or annual vaccines because of the widespread belief that they are just some evil hoax to defraud people out of their money.

The only thing that seems to motivate people to get vaxxed is seeing hospitalizations and deaths piling up, sadly. When we had a really bad flu season awhile back with lots of deaths that was a huge year for vaccination. Human nature I guess.
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Still waiting for the gubmint to shut the world down due to the Cancer. It's killin' lots o' folks.
 
wig said:
See, I won't allow the panic monkeys to eat their cake and have it as well.

I remember when the 'Rona panic was in full swing, around May and June of last year. And we were encouraged to go check out the stats on a daily, (**** hourly) basis to see JUST HOW MANY folks were getting it, and how many were dying from it. And those numbers were ******* ridiculous. If you looked at the stats sites you were told that a crazy percentage of people were diagnosed with the 'Rona.

And THEN we were told that the number of diagnosed cases was DWARFED by the number of undiagnosed, "A-symptomatic" cases of people just wandering around spreading the 'Rona while not feeling the unpleasant side effects themselves.

All this meant that well over 1/2 the population either had symptomatic or a-symptomatic 'Rona. That's how they got all their bullshit election rules passed. It was just too ******* dangerous for people to go to vote in person because the 'Rona was SO ******* PREVALENT.

Well, if we all ******* had it, those of us who survived, (you know, 99.8 % of the people who got it) developed natural antibodies to the ******* 'Rona. We can't ALL have ******* had it but now we ALL ******* need to be vaccinated. That would be eating your cake and having it too.

**** em.

It doesn't strike anybody as weird that tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people around the world have died from the from the vaccinations and ten times that many suffered serious (and I mean serious) side effects? It doesn't strike you as odd that suddenly, people who WERE vaccinated are apparently getting sick from some NEW strain of the very virus that they just had injected into their ******* bodies, no questions asked?

I mean, how ******* dumb do you have to be? If you feel you ought, by all means, get vaccinated. But I don't want to hear one ******* word about vaccinated people getting sick or dying. Just go lay down in your bed, drink fluids and shut the **** up.
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The cdc estimates that 120 million people have had the virus in the us alone… it may be higher than that based on newer information…
 
wig said:
https://undercurrents723949620.wordpress.com/2021/05/22/how-many-have-died-from-covid-vaccines/

or perhaps you would prefer it directly from the horse's mouth.
www.openvaers.com

Welcome

www.openvaers.com www.openvaers.com

While perusing, keep in mind that the number of reported cases is suspected to be well under 25%, which means the actual numbers for death may be 4 times higher or better.
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We've had many discussions here about what VAERS data actually is and what it isn't. It isn't a list of "things caused by the vaccine". It's a list of "things that happened to poeple some days or weeks after getting a vaccine." The reports are then investigated to determine if there are patterns or causal links.

The fact that someone dies after getting the vaccine does not mean the vaccine caused their death. 70% of the American adult population has received at least one vaccine. Some number of them are going to get illnesses or die in the weeks or months after getting a vaccine. That's just how math works. There's no doubt there have been some adverse effects with a causal link and a very few confirmed deaths with a causal link. All remain extremely rare. Obviously you will make the argument that they're just lying to us about causal links and they actually do not care that the vaccines are killing thousands of people and just want us to get them anyway. I don't buy that argument, sorry.

Your statement that people got infected with a variant after getting the virus injected into them is also untrue. None of the vaccines currently in use inject covid viruses into people.
 
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wig said:
Still waiting for the gubmint to shut the world down due to the Cancer. It's killin' lots o' folks.
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Cancer is not contagious.

I don't want shutdowns either by the way. Or masks. Or a lot of illness and death. If you don't want them either you might encourage more people to get vaxxed instead of the opposite.
 
oneforthebus said:
The fact remains that even if the vaccines are only 60%, or 50% or whatever effective against infection with this variant, they are still the best weapon we have against infection, serious illness and death from covid.
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What about therapeutics like Ivermectin or even Hydroxychloroquine? And these variants (mutations) are why the vaccines, as they are, aren't really working against them. Viruses mutate. The new variants, strains, mutations (whatever you want to call it) are typically less severe in regards to symptoms - but they are more contagious. But only because blanket immunity hasn't begun against them yet.

Let's talk about the various types of immunity, therapeutics, preventative measures etc. and set aside 100% vaccine talk for a minute or two.
 
Steelworth said:
What about therapeutics like Ivermectin or even Hydroxychloroquine? And these variants (mutations) are why the vaccines, as they are, aren't really working against them. Viruses mutate. The new variants, strains, mutations (whatever you want to call it) are typically less severe in regards to symptoms - but they are more contagious. But only because blanket immunity hasn't begun against them yet.

Let's talk about the various types of immunity, therapeutics, preventative measures etc. and set aside 100% vaccine talk for a minute or two.
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Vaccines are working against them. Maybe slightly less effectively against delta than others, but still reducing rates of infection and drastically reducing rates of death.

But I have no problem discussing anything else.

Invermectin:
www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov

Ivermectin | COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines

Review clinical data on the use of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19.
www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov

Effectiveness results of studies are mixed, it's fairly safe so no great risk to throwing it at a covid case.

Hydroxychloroquine, again mixed. A large scale study showed no benefit in hospitalized patients, I believe there were some studies that showed some slight benefits if used early on after exposure.

Hydroxychloroquine does not benefit adults hospitalized with COVID-19

The trial began after lab studies and preliminary reports suggested that hydroxychloroquine might have promise in treating SARS-CoV-2.
www.nih.gov www.nih.gov
jamanetwork.com

Effect of Hydroxychloroquine or Lopinavir-Ritonavir on Hospitalization for COVID-19

This randomized clinical trial examines whether hydroxychloroquine or lopinavir-ritonavir is effective for reducing hospitalization among high-risk outpatients with early symptomatic COVID-19.
jamanetwork.com jamanetwork.com

Remdesivir and dexamethasone have shown some benefit.


In general the better one's health, the better their outcome is likely to be from virtually any illness.
 
this is what Flog and Fibs are pushing for

 
oneforthebus said:
Vaccines are working against them. Maybe slightly less effectively against delta than others, but still reducing rates of infection and drastically reducing rates of death.

But I have no problem discussing anything else.

In general the better one's health, the better their outcome is likely to be from virtually any illness.
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Okay, well let me ask you this question: how did a 74-year old man who eats fast food constantly and was deemed "morbidly obese" completely recover from Covid within a 48-hour period if these therapeutics don't really work? He hadn't taken the vaccine when he got it (Orange Man).
 
Steelworth said:
Okay, well let me ask you this question: how did a 74-year old man who eats fast food constantly and was deemed "morbidly obese" completely recover from Covid within a 48-hour period if these therapeutics don't really work? He hadn't taken the vaccine when he got it (Orange Man).
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He got remdesivir and dexamethasone from what I heard. Oh, also monoclonal antibodies, which have also shown some effectiveness. Who said therapeutics don't work?

But I mean the fact that any one person survived anything isn't data. Lots of unhealthy people survived covid. Some did not.
 
oneforthebus said:
It's very weird. I don't share the "it's all a conspiracy to make money" belief but I do believe they are afraid if they say natural immunity works, people will just decide to roll the dice. That would be deadly for some people, there's no denying that. But why not just tell people that? Just say "Yes natural immunity is strong as far as we know but it's risky to try and acquire that way." I mean, we've known that about other illnesses for years. We know that chicken pox is a mild illness in most people, we know that natural immunity is strong, but we get kids vaccinated anyway because it's unpleasant and can have severe long term effects in some people. Why is the messaging so different for this one?

The constant half truths to manage our behavior, these stubborn dogmas that refuse to align with facts, these are what have sown the seeds of mistrust in science. It's going to incredibly difficult to ever come back from it.
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How is the messaging different in favor of the vaccine? I never heard so much anti-vax rhetoric for any other vaccine than I have for the Covid vaccine. And define “natural immunity”. Everyone gets the same three vaccines. Does everyone get the same natural immunity?
 
NCSteelerfan said:
I'm not sure why that's being labeled as abuse, because it's a baby? Shots don't feel good to them either, and they cry, but it's not abusing them.
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My daughter had to be partially fed through a nasogastric tube for awhile. They definitely do not like it. But better than starving.
 
oneforthebus said:
He got remdesivir and dexamethasone from what I heard. Oh, also monoclonal antibodies, which have also shown some effectiveness.
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So my next question would be - why aren't all Covid-infected patients receiving this treatment if it was so effective for a morbidly obese 74-year old? Are they just that expensive? People are able to get a free vaccine, wasn't that incredibly costly to roll out hundreds of millions of those free of charge (well, we both know nothing's free)?

oneforthebus said:
Who said therapeutics don't work?
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I never said you said that, but you seem to be on such a vaccine kick while not really stressing the benefits of therapeutics and natural immunity. That's only the impression I'm getting, not saying that's what you're actually doing as I can't read your mind. Always enjoy our conversations and sometimes small disagreements because we can do it like adults, and it's appreciated.
 
Troglodyte said:
How is the messaging different in favor of the vaccine? I never heard so much anti-vax rhetoric for any other vaccine than I have for the Covid vaccine. And define “natural immunity”. Everyone gets the same three vaccines. Does everyone get the same natural immunity?
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I don't understand your question. What do you mean by "the same"?. Immune response to the virus isn't identical in everyone. Immune response to the vaccines aren't identical in everyone either. Everyone's immune system is different. What matters whether you are more likely to become infected or ill. The messaging on this vaccine is "it's superior to natural immunity" but they present no data to demonstrate that. All current data show reinfection after infection with covid is very rare. Yet:

www.webmd.com

Chickenpox (Varicella) Vaccine

WebMD explains the varicella, or chickenpox, vaccine -- why it's important, who should get it, the vaccine schedule, and possible side effects.
www.webmd.com www.webmd.com

Who Should Get Vaccinated With the Chickenpox Vaccine?​

The chickenpox vaccine is recommended for all children under age 13 who have not had chickenpox. It is also recommended for all adolescents and adults who have not been vaccinated and have not had chickenpox.

If you have had chickenpox, there is no need for you to get the vaccine.
 
Steelworth said:
So my next question would be - why aren't all Covid-infected patients receiving this treatment if it was so effective for a morbidly obese 74-year old? Are they just that expensive? People are able to get a free vaccine, wasn't that incredibly costly to roll out hundreds of millions of those free of charge (well, we both know nothing's free)?



I never said you said that, but you seem to be on such a vaccine kick while not really stressing the benefits of therapeutics and natural immunity. That's only the impression I'm getting, not saying that's what you're actually doing as I can't read your mind. Always enjoy our conversations and sometimes small disagreements because we can do it like adults, and it's appreciated.
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Because there's a lot of misinformation about the vaccines going around.

Therapeutics are great when they work, isn't it better if you can prevent getting an illness altogether? Or prevent getting sick from one at least? My understanding is Trump was in rough shape for a couple of days, almost had to be ventilated. I think most people would like to avoid this if they can.

As to why people aren't getting those treatments, I think they are? Maybe not to the extent they should be, I don't know. Probably cost, difficulty of production, whatever. Also less severe illness due to the vaccines.
 
This seems strange:

 
 
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