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Covid Vaccine

You would think it would be great news that infected people are largely immune. Should mean that we need millions fewer vaccines which would provide more for people who actually need them and save billions of dollars. Weird how some people really, really don't want it to be true.

Sorry your beloved vaccines have developed a bit of a re-infection hole. I mean, a gaping, massive holy-**** size whole with reinfections.
If you aren't naturally immune, you are still far less likely to get infected with delta if you're vaccinated. And extremely less likely to get a symptomatic or severe infection. Iff you haven't had the rona, get the vax! Moderna if possible.


Scientists don’t have information from the clinical trials about how well the FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccines perform against the delta variant because the phase 3 trials were done at a time before the variant was circulating widely. The variant, also known as B.1.617.2, was first identified in India in October 2020 and is more than twice as transmissible as the original versions of the coronavirus, according to the CDC. Some data also suggest delta may cause more severe disease, but this has not been conclusively established.

There are, however, multiple studies of how the vaccines are faring in the real-world against delta, and most show the vaccines are working largely as expected.

A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine on July 21 by Public Health England, for example, found that after the two recommended doses, the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in preventing symptomatic disease in the U.K. fell only slightly, to 88.0% against delta from 93.7% against the alpha variant — another more contagious version of the virus, known as B.1.1.7, that previously predominated in the country. The authors, however, noted that a larger decline and lower effectiveness was observed after a single dose, underscoring the importance of receiving both immunizations.

In an unpublished study that has not yet been peer reviewed, the U.K. health agency also found the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was very effective at preventing hospitalization with the delta variant, reducing the risk by 94% after one dose and by 96% after two.

Other countries have reported similar preliminary results. In an unpublished study from Ontario, Canada, researchers estimated the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine against symptomatic infection with delta to be 87% after two doses, while a report from Scotland, published in the British medical journal the Lancet, pegged the figure at 79% for infection with delta.

The Canadian report also found that one dose of the Moderna vaccine was 70% effective in preventing symptomatic disease and 95% effective in preventing hospitalization or death; there were too few COVID-19 cases among the vaccinated to estimate the effectiveness after two doses.

Meanwhile, in Israel, the health ministry released preliminary, unpublished information on July 5 suggesting that with the rise of the delta variant in the nation, the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine was now 64% effective against infection or symptomatic illness, but still 93% effective in preventing serious illness and hospitalization. The ministry had previously estimated the vaccine to be 97% effective against symptomatic disease, with similar levels of protection against hospitalization and death, at a time when the alpha variant made up the vast majority of COVID-19 cases.

McCullough, therefore, is right that Israel estimated the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine effectiveness at “only about 60 to 70%.” But that is still a substantial amount of protection — and McCullough neglects to mention the vaccine’s excellent ability to prevent the worst outcomes of COVID-19.

In late July, the ministry further reduced its vaccine effectiveness estimate for symptomatic COVID-19 to 40.5%, but once again, found protection against severe disease to remain robust — 88.0% effective against hospitalization and 91.4% effective against severe COVID-19.

It’s worth mentioning that some experts doubt the accuracy of the Israeli estimates, which are outliers compared with the other results and rely on a different methodology. In its July 27 scientific brief on the vaccines, the CDC said “more technical information is needed to allow full interpretation.”

The most recent Israeli figure, in particular, is based on a small number of cases over a short period of time and should be considered preliminary, according to an expert advising the Israeli government on the coronavirus. The ministry itself also acknowledged the results might be skewed because of differential testing among the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations.
 
The muddled messaging from this administration is more responsible for vaccine hesitancy than anything else. People don't trust them because of all the unscientific bullshit they spew. The message should be that vaccinated and naturally immune people are safe and can go about their lives. Now they're trying to scare people back into masks because the unvaccinated won't wear them. Stop with the virtue signaling and "we're all in this together" bullshit. Tell people the truth and let them make their decisions. At this stage of the game, if you don't have a vaccine or natural immunity and choose not to protect yourself in any way it's not my problem.
 
So, he’d be against an employer’s right to manage a problem in the easiest, most practical and most effective way?

GMU accommodates their employees by providing a safe workplace. They accommodate their students with an infirmary. They accommodate their employees with health insurance. Why should they be required to accommodate employees and students who refuse vaccination? Those employees and students have a right to find a different employer or school, their ENTITLEMENT ends there.

why do you hate black people?

Mason is the top ranked public university in Virginia for ethnic diversity and tied for 15th nationally.
 
I’m just looking into this thread to see the ******** trying to use a virus with a .03% chance of killing you to justify tyranny.
And even that is inflated because they stacked the deck with people who died in car accidents etc...
 
Do you have a study or any data that shows unvaccinated people with previous infections are getting reinfected (or hospitalized or dying) at greater rates than those who are just vaccinated? Anything?
Do you have anything to suggest that it would be more practical for a university with thousand of students and hundreds of employees to verify that those that had Covid still have antibodies instead of requiring them to get vaccinated? Anything?
 
Do you have anything to suggest that it would be more practical for a university with thousand of students and hundreds of employees to verify that those that had Covid still have antibodies instead of requiring them to get vaccinated? Anything?
So getting an antibody test (which takes 24 hours to get your results) is less practical than allowing people to decide whether they need to receive a vaccine. What a load of bullshit.
 
Do you have anything to suggest that it would be more practical for a university with thousand of students and hundreds of employees to verify that those that had Covid still have antibodies instead of requiring them to get vaccinated? Anything?
Once again with the antibodies lol. As stated to you numerous times but apparently can't get through your thick head, antibodies are only one component of immunity. T-cells, and B-cells are also strongly protective. Antibody levels vary greatly among people who have been infected, both from day one of antibody production and over time. Yet reinfection among those who have been infected, as far as any available data is concerned, is rare. A year and a half after this whole thing started they remain rare.

So why would anyone need to test antibody levels, which would tell them exactly nothing about immunity? Antibody tests are good for only one thing...to tell you if you've ever had covid before. And they aren't even all that accurate at that. All you would actually need is proof of a positive covid test. No more inconvenient than needing proof of vaccination, right?
 
Once again with the antibodies lol. As stated to you numerous times but apparently can't get through your thick head, antibodies are only one component of immunity. T-cells, and B-cells are also strongly protective. Antibody levels vary greatly among people who have been infected, both from day one of antibody production and over time. Yet reinfection among those who have been infected, as far as any available data is concerned, is rare. A year and a half after this whole thing started they remain rare.

So why would anyone need to test antibody levels, which would tell them exactly nothing about immunity? Antibody tests are good for only one thing...to tell you if you've ever had covid before. And they aren't even all that accurate at that. All you would actually need is proof of a positive covid test. No more inconvenient than needing proof of vaccination, right?
DePenDs If YoU wOrE a MaSk Or NoT!!!!

OMG

/Flog
 
You would think it would be great news that infected people are largely immune. Should mean that we need millions fewer vaccines which would provide more for people who actually need them and save billions of dollars. Weird how some people really, really don't want it to be true.

I simply don't get this either. People have become so tied to their political stance on this they are actually rooting for the vaccines to be better than natural immunity. Why??

If you aren't naturally immune, you are still far less likely to get infected with delta if you're vaccinated. And extremely less likely to get a symptomatic or severe infection. Iff you haven't had the rona, get the vax! Moderna if possible.

No disagreement at all.

However.....................

That CDC study of the MA COVID outbreak is troubling regarding this point. 75% of those with COVID had been vaccinated. Reuters - well over 100K cases identified in the US of vaxed people carrying COVID. 40% of infections in Israel are vaxed.

No one is arguing that the vaccines don't help lessen the symptoms for people if they catch COVID (or catch it a 2nd or a 3rd time). They do.

But given "15 Days to Slow the Curve" was about stopping the spread, it is really bad news to see how many people that are vaccinated are now still spreading COVID.

For 8 months we have believed, if you have been vaxed, you can go visit your elderly relatives safely. This is no longer true as a rule of thumb.
 
Do you have anything to suggest that it would be more practical for a university with thousand of students and hundreds of employees to verify that those that had Covid still have antibodies instead of requiring them to get vaccinated? Anything?

Good....Lord. Do you just wake up every day, like Dumb and Dumber, and ask yourself how you can top your stupidity from the day before?

Maine, as one example, estimates that more than half of their 12-19 year old have had COVID. That aligns with CDC reporting that nearly half of all Americans have had COVID. To ignore this natural immunity is stupid, foolish, and malpractice.

Let's talk practical. My son is about to go to an SEC school. Their requirements:
  • Provide proof of the jab
  • Provide proof of prior COVID infection within 90 days (wayyyy too short, but ok)
  • Provide a clean PCR test conducted within 10 days of campus arrival
That's it, and that's smart. And practical.

Students can provide proof of having had COVID easily. Christ, my sons' are in their patient portals. In 60 seconds I can log in, print it out. Soooooooo hard.

Get an antibody test. I got rapid-tested 2 weeks ago for COVID. When I was there, I asked if I could get the antibody test. Nurse said sure, I put the script in your profile, come back any time, WALK IN, get it done, takes minutes. It's as simple as getting the swab. Sooooooooo hard.

None of those options is any more difficult than going and getting an untested vaccine injected into your body. Not an ounce more difficult.
 
interesting how certain people are calling for everyone, regardless of locale, regardless of race, regardless of gender, regardless of political affiliation, to go somewhere and get stabbed with the jabby jab.

yet somehow those same exact people say not everyone can go get a voter id card.
 
I simply don't get this either. People have become so tied to their political stance on this they are actually rooting for the vaccines to be better than natural immunity. Why??



No disagreement at all.

However.....................

That CDC study of the MA COVID outbreak is troubling regarding this point. 75% of those with COVID had been vaccinated. Reuters - well over 100K cases identified in the US of vaxed people carrying COVID. 40% of infections in Israel are vaxed.

No one is arguing that the vaccines don't help lessen the symptoms for people if they catch COVID (or catch it a 2nd or a 3rd time). They do.

But given "15 Days to Slow the Curve" was about stopping the spread, it is really bad news to see how many people that are vaccinated are now still spreading COVID.

For 8 months we have believed, if you have been vaxed, you can go visit your elderly relatives safely. This is no longer true as a rule of thumb.
Most of the people in both of those places who aren't children under 12 are vaccinated. So most infections that occur are by the laws of mathematics going to be in vaccinated people because there are a whole lot more of them. Let's say you have 100 vaccinated people and 10 get infected. You have 10 unvaccinated people and 5 get infected. So you could say that 66% of all infections were in vaxxed people. But it's also true that only 1 in 10 vaxxed people got infected while 1 in 2 unvaxxed did.

The RATE of infection is significantly higher in unvaxxed people. The reality is we've had tens of thousands of breakthrough infections but it's out of somewhere between 150 million+ vaxxed people. The vaccines were never claimed to be 100% effective. These stats are not out of the range of the original effectiveness rates. I hate how the media twists these stats to make them sound scarier than they are.

If you are vaxxed and your elderly relatives are vaxxed the chances of either of you getting infected with covid is very low. The chances of either of you getting sick or dying from covid are about zero.
 
The following is an anecdote, but true and local.

Last night I'm standing outside grilling. My neighbor is walking with her family. They continue, but she comes by to talk while I grill. She is a wicked smart woman, who got her masters and did her thesis on something to do with Type II diabetes. Did a bunch of epidemiology stuff in school.

She is a Bioinformatics Scientist at NIH. Been there 19 years. She's the one who turned me on to Novavax. She's now against the vaxes at all, says we don't need them. Take that for what it is worth.

Anywho....we are talking COVID and vaccines and the underreported VAERS stuff (yes, while I'm grilling). And she says "you know we lost someone to the vax in our neighborhood?" I was like woah, no, didn't know.

3 doors from her in our neighborhood lives a couple (around the corner from me). 10 years ago, the husband was diagnosed with some serious heart issues and they told him, some day you will have a heart attack and die. Irreparable issue. But he lived for 10 years. Because of the condition, his doc recommended he get the jab. THAT afternoon, his left arm started to go numb. That's the arm he got the shot in, so they didn't think it had anything to do with his heart. Next day, same thing. Late that night, they think something is seriously wrong and go to the hospital. He never came home. The left arm pain was his heart, not pain from the jab. He died the next day of 100% heart failure.

Guy lived for 10 years on a faulty ticker. Gets the jab, dead within 3 days from heart failure.

Seems to me, given we know the vaxes cause heart related issues, his docs were wrong in suggesting he get the jab.

I know, some will say there's no established cause and effect. Yeah. Believe that.
 
Most of the people in both of those places who aren't children under 12 are vaccinated. So most infections that occur are by the laws of mathematics going to be in vaccinated people because there are a whole lot more of them. Let's say you have 100 vaccinated people and 10 get infected. You have 10 unvaccinated people and 5 get infected. So you could say that 66% of all infections were in vaxxed people. But it's also true that only 1 in 10 vaxxed people got infected while 1 in 2 unvaxxed did.

The RATE of infection is significantly higher in unvaxxed people. The reality is we've had tens of thousands of breakthrough infections but it's out of somewhere between 150 million+ vaxxed people. The vaccines were never claimed to be 100% effective. These stats are not out of the range of the original effectiveness rates. I hate how the media twists these stats to make them sound scarier than they are.

If you are vaxxed and your elderly relatives are vaxxed the chances of either of you getting infected with covid is very low. The chances of either of you getting sick or dying from covid are about zero.

What I'm objecting to is the media's incessant claims and poor messaging. They have never said they are bullet proof, but have indicated breakthrough infections are EXTREMELY rare.

Like this:


It has been purported to us year long that the vaccines will help a) prevent the spread and b) lessen the effects of COVID if you catch it.

What we have seen in the past week appears to be destroying part a. Breakthrough infections seem to be larger than the less than 1% we have been told all along the vaxes would provide.


About three-fourths of people infected in a Massachusetts Covid-19 outbreak were fully vaccinated against the coronavirus with four of them ending up in the hospital, according to new data published Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The new data, published in the U.S. agency’s Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, also found that fully vaccinated people who get infected carry as much of the virus in their nose as unvaccinated people, and could spread it to other individuals.

“This finding is concerning and was a pivotal discovery leading to CDC’s updated mask recommendation,” CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said in a statement. “The masking recommendation was updated to ensure the vaccinated public would not unknowingly transmit virus to others, including their unvaccinated or immunocompromised loved ones.”

On Tuesday, the CDC reversed course on its prior guidance and recommended fully vaccinated Americans who live in areas with high Covid infection rates resume wearing face masks indoors.

----------------

I am not saying the vaccines are pointless. I just want truth and the American people have been led to believe that the vaccines would slow the spread. When 3/4 of those infected in a large, populous state are vaccinated, breakthrough infections are not rare...but common. Even Dr. Walensky was surprised by these results.
 
The Federal Government knows they can't "mandate" vaccinations. This is how they do it.

When you coerce companies to make their employees have it, when you force the airlines eventually to require it for travel, when you make restaurants and private businesses require them, when you make retails stores require vaccines for shopping...you're quite nearly there.

 
The following is an anecdote, but true and local.

Last night I'm standing outside grilling. My neighbor is walking with her family. They continue, but she comes by to talk while I grill. She is a wicked smart woman, who got her masters and did her thesis on something to do with Type II diabetes. Did a bunch of epidemiology stuff in school.

She is a Bioinformatics Scientist at NIH. Been there 19 years. She's the one who turned me on to Novavax. She's now against the vaxes at all, says we don't need them. Take that for what it is worth.

Anywho....we are talking COVID and vaccines and the underreported VAERS stuff (yes, while I'm grilling). And she says "you know we lost someone to the vax in our neighborhood?" I was like woah, no, didn't know.

3 doors from her in our neighborhood lives a couple (around the corner from me). 10 years ago, the husband was diagnosed with some serious heart issues and they told him, some day you will have a heart attack and die. Irreparable issue. But he lived for 10 years. Because of the condition, his doc recommended he get the jab. THAT afternoon, his left arm started to go numb. That's the arm he got the shot in, so they didn't think it had anything to do with his heart. Next day, same thing. Late that night, they think something is seriously wrong and go to the hospital. He never came home. The left arm pain was his heart, not pain from the jab. He died the next day of 100% heart failure.

Guy lived for 10 years on a faulty ticker. Gets the jab, dead within 3 days from heart failure.

Seems to me, given we know the vaxes cause heart related issues, his docs were wrong in suggesting he get the jab.

I know, some will say there's no established cause and effect. Yeah. Believe that.
I would call that medical malpractice. How do you not check out the heart when there's left arm numbness in a guy with a 10 year terminal heart condition? That's a classic heart attack symptom.

Who knows if it's the vaccine or not, as you state. Could have even been anxiety about getting it that brought it on. Do you think he would have fared better getting covid? We'll never know.
 
I would call that medical malpractice. How do you not check out the heart when there's left arm numbness in a guy with a 10 year terminal heart condition? That's a classic heart attack symptom.

Who knows if it's the vaccine or not, as you state. Could have even been anxiety about getting it that brought it on. Do you think he would have fared better getting covid? We'll never know.

Nope, we won't ever know. Cases like his will always be argued from both sides.

Not checking out the heart with left arm numbness "I believe" was the family's call. He brought it up, he and wife said "It's probably not a big deal." I don't know if they called his physician or not.

Life is a gamble. He had to make one.

Reminds me of Kurt Thomas' story. I took a new job this year and my new boss, who is amazing, lives in Dallas. Her daughter is D1 gymnastics material and trained at Kurt's gym, directly under Kurt. She and Kurt became very close, as did the families. When he passed, my boss' daughter wouldn't leave her room for days and gave up gymnastics on the spot, it was too painful. Anyway, Kurt had a stroke and doctors told him he had a choice...do nothing, he would likely die. Or have surgery, which could kill him. He said let's do the surgery, and died.

Sort of like this neighbor of mine. Not much of a situation to be in....catch COVID with a really bad heart or risk the vax with a really bad heart.

I just wish we knew what led to it. Never will.
 
I am not saying the vaccines are pointless. I just want truth and the American people have been led to believe that the vaccines would slow the spread. When 3/4 of those infected in a large, populous state are vaccinated, breakthrough infections are not rare...but common. Even Dr. Walensky was surprised by these results.
I want truth too, so let's be accurate. No, they did not say that 3/4 of the people infected in the state were vaccinated. They said three quarters of the people in this particular outbreak on Cape Cod were vaccinated. The vaccination rate there is very high. So the fact that most of the people who tested positive were vaccinated makes sense because most of the people there are vaccinated. I realize it sounds counterintuitive. The spread would have likely been far worse without the vaccines.

The vaccines are slowing the spread. Perhaps with this variant they are less effective and that is certainly concerning. But they are still much more effective than no vaccine at all. And they are still extremely effective at preventing hospitalization and death. Of the hundreds in the Cape Cod outbreak, 5 hospitalizations and no deaths.
 
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