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Covid Vaccine

Sorry to get on my high horse, I found out recently I have a friend who is probably gonna die of breast cancer because she bought into all of the "chemo is poison, I'm gonna cure my cancer naturally" bullshit, and before you ask, no she didn't get the covid vax. Now that it's spread into her spine she's finally getting chemo (after months of urging by her doctors) but it may be too late.

Not to mention another one who refuses to get a mammogram because she read they cause cancer.
At the same time, a good friend of mine from college did the natural way, and is still alive ten years after he was given only months to live.

I try to look at real science and real facts.
This is the problem. Both of these were obscured in the interest of agendas, on both sides of the conversation. So, the best thing is to is take the look for yourself, and make the best decision you can, for yourself.
 
Sorry about your friend.

Cancer sucks, and it is unrelated to Covid.

Chemo is "poison", by design, meant to kill the cancer while trying not to kill the host. Like all attempts at cancer cures, it has its place.

In my experience, once any form of cancer spreads, n=1 or more, then it is a tough, tough battle.
It is not related to covid, the situation is related to the idea being pushed by anti-vaxxers that that science and medicine are evil and nefarious.

Yes, chemo has some awful side effects. Which is why it is mostly used to try and prevent death.
 
At the same time, a good friend of mine from college did the natural way, and is still alive ten years after he was given only months to live.

That is fortunate for your friend. Cancer 5 year survival rates have soared from around 49% in the 70s pre-chemo to 70% now. 90% for breast cancer. There are of course other advancements by the evil medical community that sometimes make chemo unnecessary, depending on the type of cancer.
 
Me and my people? LOL. I'm not part of any "people". I try to look at real science and real facts. I was misled about certain things early on like everyone else, the difference is I believe it was honest lack of knowledge in the rush to try and do something to stem what everyone feared was going to be a wave of deaths, rather than out of some evil conspiracy to murder us all and make money doing it. There was a learning curve, yes.
And you told all us here reading that we were idiots and trust your friends at pFizer.
If this is your apology, accepted.

My biggest fear out of all of this is the lack of trust in science now. Because we just got lucky that this one didn't turn out to be nearly as deadly as they feared, and when the one comes along that is, a lot of people aren't going to believe it.
100% agree. Those that lied because of THEIR FEAR caused great damage in so many ways.

How would you propose that society deal with those that knowingly lied?

What about those that knowingly lied AND personally or corporately profited?

The covid vaccine showed promise early on...turns out it is not particularly effective.
After you posted the pFizer trial link from the .gov site, I showed repeatedly that they moved all the trial goal posts.
So they marketed that it showed promis, but hid and obfuscated the scientific results. It was all in this thread in almost real time.
There was an accounting of the changes, repeatedly. Only a denier of science would gloss over that. Then there was the suit brought by Allelle, again well documented here. That demonstrated theft and showed that pFraud was likely, because pFucking pFizer didn't have the technology or the process to actually develop or manufacture the Covid shot. It was like immaculate conception, with a replication process!

It's not effective at all in terms of spreading the illness but it is mildly effective at reducing serious illness and death in those at risk of those things. It actually did cause myocarditis in too many young healthy males, who were at very little risk from covid itself. Like any vaccine (or any medical treatment for that matter) it does have the potential to cause adverse reactions like anaphlyaxis and auto-immune issues in very small numbers of people. Those are provable facts.
But it wasnt small numbers. Epidemiological studies from many countries show this, again presented in this very thread.
Almost all of the other anti-vax nonsense is easily disprovable if someone's willing to do the research, and by research I mean actual peer reviewed scientific studies and not anti-vax gobbledy gook.
How about you bearing the burden of proof. I'll give you and easy one. Pick Aaron Siri, the lawyer guy, and show how he is factually or legally incorrect.
Science is imperfect, yes, but when someone takes a study and intentionally leaves out major portions of the information as well as completely twists the authors of the study's own conclusions, that's not "imperfect science". It's deliberate dishonesty.
Are you suggesting that scientific "research" is all 100% correct? Any conclusion from research needs to demonstrable via independent confirmation from other sources, period.
Do some reading on the corruption in "peer reviewed" research; you could use NEJM as a good starting point, because it's own former leadership is calling this out.
Vaccine misinformation is dangerous.
100% agree.
There is no need whatsoever to jab newborns with Hep B shot on day 1.
Like, life and death dangerous. Babies are needlessly getting sick, hospitalized and dying because of it. I don't have the time or desire to refute every single instance of it I see here, it's kind of an exercise in futility, but when I can fairly quickly and easily, I will.
Thank you.
 
It is not related to covid, the situation is related to the idea being pushed by anti-vaxxers that that science and medicine are evil and nefarious.
Those are your beliefs.
Galileo died because folks wouldn't believe the earth wasn't the center of the universe, in spite of convincing data. They chose not to believe the science, but rather the dogma marketed by Rome, which is rather similar to the dogma marketed by CDC & pFarma.
Yes, chemo has some awful side effects. Which is why it is mostly used to try and prevent death.
Yep, many have very personal experience with the positive and negative effects of the chemo cocktails.
 
And you told all us here reading that we were idiots and trust your friends at pFizer.
If this is your apology, accepted.

All I ever said about my friend who works in the pharmaceutical industry (not for Pfizer, or Moderna, or J&J) is that he is a husband and father himself and I can virtually guarantee that he and others like him are not knowingly plotting all of our murders. I don't recall calling anyone who had concerns an idiot. If I did please show me where and I'll be happy to apologize for that.
100% agree. Those that lied because of THEIR FEAR caused great damage in so many ways.
There's a difference between being wrong, and lying. And I take issue with "great damage". Hundreds of millions of people got the vaccines. they prevented serious illness and death in many. They caused very rare, serious side effects. That's the data. Show me the medical treatment that has no side effects or adverse events. People die from Advil and Tylenol, even caffeine, yet you're not on here screaming about those things ever.
How would you propose that society deal with those that knowingly lied?
If anyone knowingly lied and it can be proven they should be prosecuted. Do you have evidence of this?
What about those that knowingly lied AND personally or corporately profited?
I'm not sure what your point about "profited" is. Do you expect drug companies to develop new medical technologies for free? What is wrong with profiting? If they didn't there would be trillions less invested in many life-saving treatments, and they would never be developed. I take issue with "knowingly lied".
After you posted the pFizer trial link from the .gov site, I showed repeatedly that they moved all the trial goal posts.
I don't recall what you're referring to here, maybe you can refresh my memory.

So they marketed that it showed promis, but hid and obfuscated the scientific results. It was all in this thread in almost real time.
There was an accounting of the changes, repeatedly. Only a denier of science would gloss over that. Then there was the suit brought by Allelle, again well documented here. That demonstrated theft and showed that pFraud was likely, because pFucking pFizer didn't have the technology or the process to actually develop or manufacture the Covid shot. It was like immaculate conception, with a replication process!

But it wasnt small numbers. Epidemiological studies from many countries show this, again presented in this very thread.

How about you bearing the burden of proof. I'll give you and easy one. Pick Aaron Siri, the lawyer guy, and show how he is factually or legally incorrect.

Are you suggesting that scientific "research" is all 100% correct? Any conclusion from research needs to demonstrable via independent confirmation from other sources, period.
Do some reading on the corruption in "peer reviewed" research; you could use NEJM as a good starting point, because it's own former leadership is calling this out.

100% agree.
There is no need whatsoever to jab newborns with Hep B shot on day 1.

Thank you.
Again, I don't have the time or desire to go through and refute every single one of your anti-vax site points.

I will say there certainly are good reasons to jab newborns with a Hep B shot.... 1) Hep B tests on pregnant mothers can produce false negatives. Hep B is not always detectable during its incubation period. 2) 90% of newborns who contract Hep B will live the rest of their lives with chronic liver disease often ending in liver failure and death 3) Many people are carriers of Hep B without ever showing symptoms or being diagnosed. A baby or small child can contract it from contact with blood or saliva from their parents, relatives, daycare providers etc. which isn't the most likely method of transmission but certainly not impossible. 4) Within 10 years of Hep B being recommended at birth, Hep B infections in children were reduced by 68%. 16000-25000 children/ year were diagnosed with Hep B prior to vaccination. You must be really excited to start seeing those numbers rise back up. 5) Young children often show no symptoms when infected but can infect other people. 6) The Hep B vaccine is safe. There is no good reason not to inject a newborn with it.
 
Pick Aaron Siri, the lawyer guy, and show how he is factually or legally incorrect.

At the hearing, Aaron Siri, a lawyer who specializes in vaccine lawsuits and acts as a legal adviser to Secretary of Health and Human Services Robert F. Kennedy Jr., said the study was never published because the authors feared being fired for finding evidence supporting the health risks of vaccines. His rhetoric made the study sound definitive.

As the head of biostatistics at the University of Pennsylvania’s Perelman School of Medicine, when I encounter new scientific claims, I always start with the question “Could this be true?” Then, I evaluate the evidence.

I can say definitively that the study by Henry Ford Health researchers has serious design problems that keep it from revealing much about whether vaccines affect children’s long-term health. In fact, a spokesperson at Henry Ford Health told journalists seeking comment on the study that it “was not published because it did not meet the rigorous scientific standards we demand as a premier medical research institution.”

Do experts have something to add to public debate?​

We think so
The study’s weaknesses illustrate several key principles of biostatistics.

Study participants and conclusions​

The researchers examined the medical records of about 18,500 children born between 2000 and 2016 within the Henry Ford Health network. According to the records, roughly 16,500 children had received at least one vaccine and about 2,000 were completely unvaccinated.

The authors compared the two groups on a wide set of outcomes. These included conditions that affect the immune system, such as asthma, allergies and autoimmune disorders. They also included neurodevelopmental outcomes such as attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD, autism and speech and seizure disorders, as well as learning, intellectual, behavioral and motor disabilities.

https://images.theconversation.com/...lib=rb-4.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=1000&fit=clip
Many diagnoses of common childhood conditions like asthma and ADHD occur after children start school. Ariel Skelley/DigitalVision via Getty Images
Their headline result was that vaccinated children had 2.5 times the rate of “any selected chronic disease,” with 3 to 6 times higher rates for some specific conditions. They did not find that vaccinated children had higher rates of autism.

The study’s summary states it found that “vaccine exposure in children was associated with increased risk of developing a chronic health disorder.” That wording is strong, but it is not well supported given the weaknesses of the paper.

Timeline logic​

To study long-term diseases in children, it’s crucial to track their health until the ages when these problems usually show up. Many conditions in the study, like asthma, ADHD, learning problems and behavior issues, are mostly diagnosed after age 5, once kids are in school. If kids are not followed that long, many cases will be missed.

However, that’s what happened here, especially for children in the unvaccinated group.

About 25% of unvaccinated children in the study were tracked until they were less than 6 months old, 50% until they were less than 15 months old, and only 25% were tracked past age 3. That’s too short to catch most of these conditions. Vaccinated kids, however, were followed much longer, with 75% followed past 15 months of age, 50% past 2.7 years of age and 25% past 5.7 years of age.

The longer timeline gave the vaccinated kids many more chances to have diagnoses recorded in their Henry Ford medical records compared with the nonvaccinated group. The study includes no explanation for this difference.

When one group is watched longer and into the ages when problems are usually found, they will almost always look sicker on paper, even if the real risks are the same. In statistics, this is called surveillance bias.

The primary methods used in the paper were not sufficient to adjust for this surveillance bias. The authors tried new analyses using only kids followed beyond age 1, 3 or 5. But vaccinated kids were still tracked longer, with more reaching the ages when diagnoses are made, so those efforts did not fix this bias.

More opportunities to be diagnosed​

Not all cases of chronic disease are written down in the Henry Ford records. Kids who go to a Henry Ford doctor more often get more checkups, more tests and more chances for their diseases to be found and recorded in the Henry Ford system. Increased doctor visits has been shown to increase the chance of diagnosing chronic conditions, including autism, ADHD, asthma, developmental disorders and learning disabilities.

If people in one group see doctors more often than people in another, those people may look like they have higher disease rates even if their true health is the same across both groups. In statistics, this is called detection bias.

In the Henry Ford system, vaccinated kids averaged about seven visits per year, while unvaccinated kids had only about two. That gave the vaccinated kids many more chances to be diagnosed. The authors tried leaving out kids with zero visits, but this did not fix the detection bias, since vaccinated kids still had far more visits.

Another issue is that the study doesn’t show which kids actually used Henry Ford for their main care. Many babies are seen at the hospital for birth and early visits, but then go elsewhere for routine care. If that happens, later diagnoses would not appear in the Henry Ford records. The short follow-up for many children suggests a lot may have left the system after infancy, hiding diagnoses made outside Henry Ford.

Apples and oranges​

Big differences between the groups of vaccinated and unvaccinated children can make it hard to know if vaccines really caused any differences in chronic disease. This is because of a statistical concept called confounding.

The two groups were not alike from birth. They differed in characteristics like sex, race, birth weight, being born early and the mother experiencing birth complications – all factors linked to later effects on health. The study made some adjustments for these, but left out many other important risks, such as:

• Whether families live in urban, suburban or rural areas.

• Family income, health insurance and resources.

• Environmental exposures such as air and water pollution, which were concerns in Detroit at that time.


Many factors can affect how often a child visits a health care provider.
These factors can affect both the chance of getting vaccinated and the chance of having health problems. They also change how often families visit Henry Ford clinics, which affects what shows up in the records.

When too many measured and unmeasured differences line up, as they do here, the study is unable to fully separate cause from effect.

Bottom line​

The Henry Ford data could be helpful if the study followed both groups of kids to the same ages and took into account differences in health care use and background risks.

But as written, the study’s main comparisons are tilted. The follow-up time was short and uneven, kids had unequal chances for diagnosis, and the two groups were very different in ways that matter. The methods used did not adequately fix these problems. Because of this, the differences reported in the study do not show that vaccines cause chronic disease.

Good science asks tough questions and uses methods strong enough to answer them. This study falls short, and it is being presented as stronger evidence than its design really allows.
 
Reading studies is always the best way to become informed well. The problem is that the causal reader doesn't have the background, or the time, often. So, we rely on those who get out the info based on those studies. Therein lies the problem.
100% incorrect, as proven here on this forum and in this very thread.

the absolute best way to be informed is to lap up precisely what your handlers lay down.
 
This is America there is zero profit in curing anyone, the only profit is lifetime treatment.

My dad died of kidney (lung) cancer. they removed his kidney and was told he was good to go. no chemo offered. six months later it was in his lungs. no problem we caught it early lets do radiation and chemo. he was deathly sick after every treatment about the time he started feeling better here comes the next treatment. he died of cancer 18 months later.

My son in laws dad had stage three colon cancer his daughter worked for a oncologist so he got the best treatment possible including chemo. again so sick from the treatment he had no quality of life. died 12 months after starting treatment.

A friend of mine that was a retired navy seal took the both covid shots. ended up in afib and died before he got his ablation done.

I took the first shot with my wife because she was told by her employer that is was about to be made mandatory, and she was afraid of the shot, so I went with her and took the jab too. six years before that I had a complete cardio work up seen buy two different cardiologist in two different states and both said my heart was in excellent condition. months after the jab I'm told I'm in heart failure and end up in Pensacola FL having a heart ablation and I'm on heart meds for the rest of my life. go figure.

My overnight stay at the hospital with the ablation was over $260.000.00, hell the cardiac MRI was $3000.00 out of pocket with insurance. then I had a 25% co pay up to my policy max which was in the tens of thousands. when my dad died he was drowning in medical debt and you can bet your *** they got that money from his estate.

My point in all of this is I decided after my ablation that if I was told that there was only a chance I would be cured, I would pass. quality of life and not leaving my wife strapped with medical debt is more important to me than the extra few yews.

So when it comes to healthcare in this country I believe in two things.

everyone has a right to decide for themselves how they want to address their health care and that of their children without being judged for it.. AND

there is no money in curing anything only treating it.
 
Many serious illnesses are not 100% curable, that’s a fact. The advances we’ve made in cancer treatments are nothing short of miraculous. Survival rates and duration continue to increase, and cancer treatments are constantly being improved and through technology, more targeted, less toxic and with reduced side effects. Unfortunately we haven’t found a cure. The financial side of things is a whole other debate, personally I don’t put a price on watching my children grow up, if I had to go into debt for it I certainly would.
I totally agree that it should be everyone’s right to make decisions about their own medical treatment. I just don’t want them to make decisions based on misinformation. I also loathe and fear the spread of of the attitude that the medical and pharmaceutical industries are just in it for the money and aren’t interested in helping people. There are a lot of brilliant, dedicated people in these industries who truly care about bettering and prolonging people’s lives.
 
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