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Covid Vaccine

Troglodyte said:
I do, how do you not understand the risk vs reward of getting vaccinated?

There’s high risk that they could be miserably sick for several days. Risk of death isn’t the only determinant in getting vaccinated.

Do you think the very few low risk people that slowly suffocated to death regretted not getting vaccinated or they were fine with it?
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again, how is your AIDS Cocktail being mixed at this point?
 
Superman said:
while I get all that, this was a mRNA "vaccine" that was quite literally rushed to use - emergency use, as you said.
as such, for pregnant women (biological women, not fLog), wouldn't/shouldn't the unknown risk give a pregnant woman (biological woman, not fLog) pause to taking it?

"we expect it to do this - but we do not know the effects on your baby 5-10-15 years from now."
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Yes, it should give a woman pause. As should potentially contracting a novel virus that was killing people, with an increased risk of severe illness and hospitalization in pregnant women, unmitigated by a vaccine that was reducing severe illness and hospitalization. What are the effects on your baby 5-10 years from now if you are admitted to ICU, have a prolonged illness, maybe hypoxic and feverish for a prolonged period? No one knew either.

While no one knew anything with 100% certainty, the consensus seemed to be that vaccination was likely less risky than contracting the virus unvaccinated. That has actually borne out in follow up studies for numerous demographics, including pregnant women.
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
I am not the one who doesn't understand that the risk from the vaccine is higher than the risk of Covid for all but a few demographics and preexisting conditions.

I got miserably sick for more than few days from Covid, after getting the vaccine and was miserably sick from both vaccinations themselves.

How many low risk people died? Almost none, they all had a high risk factor even if it wasn't known at the time.
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A lot of people died. 1.2 million in the US alone. High risk conditions like obesity, being elderly or diabetic are quite common, hardly "a few".

There is not a single study that shows the vaccine is riskier than covid itself. Unvaccinated people died at higher rates than vaccinated people in all age groups. That's a data point you guys just can't get around or disprove.

 
oneforthebus said:
A lot of people died. 1.2 million in the US alone. High risk conditions like obesity, being elderly or diabetic are quite common, hardly "a few".

There is not a single study that shows the vaccine is riskier than covid itself. Unvaccinated people died at higher rates than vaccinated people in all age groups. That's a data point you guys just can't get around or disprove.

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because it is hard to trust the numbers that support a lie

2+2 will never equal 5.
 
Superman said:
because it is hard to trust the numbers that support a lie

2+2 will never equal 5.
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So every scientific study that doesn't support your pre-determined conclusion is a lie. Even if they're from many different sources, different countries, different methods.

Okey doke.
 
oneforthebus said:
A lot of people died. 1.2 million in the US alone. High risk conditions like obesity, being elderly or diabetic are quite common, hardly "a few".

There is not a single study that shows the vaccine is riskier than covid itself. Unvaccinated people died at higher rates than vaccinated people in all age groups. That's a data point you guys just can't get around or disprove.

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Respectfully that is a load of crap pushed by people trying to protect their own *****. Your article date disqualifies itself entirely. You are way too smart to be falling for this paid for propaganda. My doctor disputes your view as do many others who just can't go on the record for fear of authoritarians and big Pharma running them off. But some are starting to come forward to call this bullshit.
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
Respectfully that is a load of crap pushed by people trying to protect their own *****. Your article date disqualifies itself entirely. You are way too smart to be falling for this paid for propaganda. My doctor disputes your view as do many others who just can't go on the record for fear of authoritarians and big Pharma running them off. But some are starting to come forward to call this bullshit.
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Respectfully it's one of numerous studies from all over the world that show unvaccinated people died at higher rates than vaccinated ones.

I'm smart enough to look at facts and not just distorted, twisted anti-vax propaganda. Your doctor is in the minority, and if he and others are too cowardly to go on the record with disputing facts they have, that's on them.

I'll relay my own purely anecdotal experience: People I know who died of covid: 3. All unvaxxed. 1-old, 1-early 60s diabetic with a heart condition, 1-52, slim, healthy and a 4.0 tennis player. People I know who died from covid vaccine complications: 0 People I know outside of this message board who had any serious covid vaccine complications: 0

People I know who got vaxxed and boosted at least once...virtually all of the hundreds of people I'm related to and acquainted with.

My doctors continue to recommend getting annual vaccines, which I don't do. I don't fear the vaccines at all, and they have some benefits though not terribly effective. Having had covid twice and with the fact that it's become endemic over time, I don't feel it's necessary or beneficial to keep on getting the current vaccines. But if a new variant were to come along that was particularly nasty and an updated vaccine was produced, I wouldn't hesitate.

My friend who's a nurse practitioner at a low-income health clinic nearby has seen numerous people die of covid. She gets a covid vax every year. I guess she just likes living dangerously :LOL:
 
oneforthebus said:
Again, there's a reason for this. Women were at higher rates of severe complications from covid. So, do you withhold a vaccination that appears safe and effective and just let women suffer severe covid complications? It was an emergency use.
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That's the issue, emergency use or not - "that appears" safe and effective was not determined at that point. Everything at the time was a blanket one size fits all approach. Everyone, from infants to the elderly, to the healthy to the pregnant were told get the vaccines.

Hindsight has been our friend.

oneforthebus said:
Should women have been told there was a theoretical miscarriage risk? Yes. But they should also be told about the known observed risks of covid during pregnancy and the potential benefits of vaccination.
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We agree. This was not happening however. I think you are also agreeing.

oneforthebus said:
It's not like just getting covid unvaccinated as a pregnant woman was without risk.




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There's no argument from me on this. Pregnant women should have had the vaccine risks and been able to personally weigh the risks for themselves.

oneforthebus said:
Fauci said there was a theoretical risk of miscarriage from the vaccine due to fever and cytokine storm.
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The issue, the point - Fauci said he had concerns and there was a theoretical risk THEN. We, the American people, never learned this until his diary was released (against his will). AT THE TIME, Dr. Science should have been voicing his concerns, whatever they may have been.
 
fedderone said:
I have answers now from both my co-worker and confirmed by HR......
My Healthcare System did not/does NOT offer COVID vaxes for free with our flu clinics, nor do they offer as a separate clinic just for the COVID vax.
Never have. Never will.
Even when the COVID vax hit the market, my employer did not offer in conjunction with the flu clinics nor with a standalone clinic.
If you wanted/want the COVID vax or boosters, you get on your own wherever you want.
COVID vax and boosters are covered under our health insurance policy at 100%, as it is classified as a preventative medicine just like the other normal routine vaxes.
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And let me get this straight...you work for a healthcare system right? I thought you did.

I mean, I can't imagine the Flogged response to this one given he's on record for 673 pages screaming EVUHRY MEDIKAL ASSOCIASHUN!!
 
oneforthebus said:
So every scientific study that doesn't support your pre-determined conclusion is a lie. Even if they're from many different sources, different countries, different methods.

Okey doke.
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"pre-determined"? hardly. as a reminder, I got the jab. and the booster. unfortunately for some people, it didnt kill me. I did wind up in the ER less than a week after the 2nd shot (pfizer - two shot job) with my appendix trying to kill me.

so, no, it's not a "predetermined" opinion.

however, if all the data is being distributed from one place or has been edited, then 2+2 will equal 5, even if it doesn't add up.
 
That's the issue, emergency use or not - "that appears" safe and effective was not determined at that point. Everything at the time was a blanket one size fits all approach. Everyone, from infants to the elderly, to the healthy to the pregnant were told get the vaccines.

Hindsight has been our friend.
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Because not getting them was also not without risk, as far as we knew at the time.

In an emergent situation, relevant information is coming in slowly. Do you just let people die while you put in more time studying, or do you do what the small amount of evidence you have tells you will give them the best chance? The initial wave was much more virulent than subsequent waves, I think a lot of people seem to forget that. We didn't know the right ways to treat the illness initially, and a lot of people were dying horrible deaths.

You all seem to believe these were all deliberate lies, I believe that knowledge and understanding in an emergent situation evolved and changed. I will agree that the powers that be were too slow to react to the changing knowledge.

The issue, the point - Fauci said he had concerns and there was a theoretical risk THEN. We, the American people, never learned this until his diary was released (against his will). AT THE TIME, Dr. Science should have been voicing his concerns, whatever they may have been.
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Yes, I agree.
 
Superman said:
"pre-determined"? hardly. as a reminder, I got the jab. and the booster. unfortunately for some people, it didnt kill me. I did wind up in the ER less than a week after the 2nd shot (pfizer - two shot job) with my appendix trying to kill me.

so, no, it's not a "predetermined" opinion.

however, if all the data is being distributed from one place or has been edited, then 2+2 will equal 5, even if it doesn't add up.
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I'm aware. I'm also aware that several hundred thousand people get appendicitis every year. Somewhere around 1000 people per day. Mathematically, therefore, some people will get appendicitis right after they get a covid vaccine. Especially if millions of covid vaccines are being administered within a short period of time.

Therefore, you study whether appendicitis happens more often in the days and weeks following vaccination than it does the rest of the time. Only then can you determine if the vaccine caused the appendicitis. There actually have been studies done on this, and no increased rate of appendicitis detected.




But I will say my goodbyes to this thread, since A) We hit 1000 pages! Yay! B) It's rather irrelevant at this point as no one's changing anyone's minds and C) No amount of googling scientific study is worth anyone's time if it's all just going to be dismissed as lies and propaganda. I've found it to be an interesting discussion at times but it's even exhausted that for me.


Farewell Covid Vaccine thread! :LOL:
 
oneforthebus said:
Because not getting them was also not without risk, as far as we knew at the time.

In an emergent situation, relevant information is coming in slowly. Do you just let people die while you put in more time studying, or do you do what the small amount of evidence you have tells you will give them the best chance? The initial wave was much more virulent than subsequent waves, I think a lot of people seem to forget that. We didn't know the right ways to treat the illness initially, and a lot of people were dying horrible deaths.

You all seem to believe these were all deliberate lies, I believe that knowledge and understanding in an emergent situation evolved and changed. I will agree that the powers that be were too slow to react to the changing knowledge.



Yes, I agree.
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I believe they were lies, at least from the top end of the pyramid. The draconian way they censored any dissent and forced this on us says it was lies. The evidence is all there. Facebook censorship alone speaks volumes.
 
SteelerInLebanon said:
I believe they were lies, at least from the top end of the pyramid. The draconian way they censored any dissent and forced this on us says it was lies. The evidence is all there. Facebook censorship alone speaks volumes.
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Who do you mean by they? Our government? Our media? I'll agree they both tried to shut down dissenting voices. But did our government also control scientific study all over the world? We can agree the response was heavy handed without agreeing that every single data point in favor of the vaccines is made up. You're talking a global conspiracy of doctors, epidemiologists and scientists all over the world.

You're also suggesting that Donald Trump, who most of you consider to be the anti-establishment president, was largely responsible for pushing through a vaccine he knew was dangerous and deadly. And continues to boast about having fast-tracked it for years. Is he lying too, or just stupid?
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
And let me get this straight...you work for a healthcare system right? I thought you did.

I mean, I can't imagine the Flogged response to this one given he's on record for 673 pages screaming EVUHRY MEDIKAL ASSOCIASHUN!!
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Can confirm.
I do in fact work for a healthcare system.
10+ hospitals and 5000+ doctors/mid-levels
Have worked here for over 15 years.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
That's the issue, emergency use or not - "that appears" safe and effective was not determined at that point. Everything at the time was a blanket one size fits all approach. Everyone, from infants to the elderly, to the healthy to the pregnant were told get the vaccines.

Hindsight has been our friend.



We agree. This was not happening however. I think you are also agreeing.



There's no argument from me on this. Pregnant women should have had the vaccine risks and been able to personally weigh the risks for themselves.



The issue, the point - Fauci said he had concerns and there was a theoretical risk THEN. We, the American people, never learned this until his diary was released (against his will). AT THE TIME, Dr. Science should have been voicing his concerns, whatever they may have been.
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It's called informed consent, an international human rights stemming from Nuremberg trials.

Its very clear that pFauci et al withheld information, other solutions, etc. throughout the time when the government and media asked them to be the voice for the health and safety of the American people. It is very clear they failed, after the yelled "fire" in a crowded theater.

Unlike others in this thread, I recall pFauci's email that said Covid was like an influenza. I agree, and from that perspective, all the rest of the argument about shots, mandates and treatments is unmitigated whoreshit.

The garbage about pregnancy stats is largely about timing.....so many people that died died very early because of **** treatment protocols --- for a flu! The health agencies, globally, refused to acknowledge the real time experience of their own doctors and Healthcare specialists, condemning so many people to death by incubation, etc. And then called every death Covid to catch hospital billings.

Definitely the health crime of this century.
 
oneforthebus said:
You're also suggesting that Donald Trump, who most of you consider to be the anti-establishment president, was largely responsible for pushing through a vaccine he knew was dangerous and deadly. And continues to boast about having fast-tracked it for years. Is he lying too, or just stupid?
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it's clear from pFauci's own words in his own diary that he misled Trump and then guided him down his own pre-determined pathway.

Have a look a Senator Johnson's recent disclosures.
 
oneforthebus said:
Who do you mean by they? Our government? Our media? I'll agree they both tried to shut down dissenting voices. But did our government also control scientific study all over the world? We can agree the response was heavy handed without agreeing that every single data point in favor of the vaccines is made up. You're talking a global conspiracy of doctors, epidemiologists and scientists all over the world.

You're also suggesting that Donald Trump, who most of you consider to be the anti-establishment president, was largely responsible for pushing through a vaccine he knew was dangerous and deadly. And continues to boast about having fast-tracked it for years. Is he lying too, or just stupid?
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This absolutely was a worldwide issue with the Governments and big Pharma in bed together and inextricably linked in a trap of their own settings. Yes, I blame Trump to a degree for allowing Fauci, who is at the heart of this entire thing, to bully him into acting too quickly out of fear. He(Trump) didn't know it was dangerous but Fauci absolutely knew it could be. He said so explicitly previously on video talking about mRNA vaccines. Funny how that video is now nigh impossible to find. Governments were forced to coverup and keep pushing something they knew had issues because to do otherwise would have and still would collapse those governments. The knew they were and are up **** creek without a paddle once the truth got out.
 
Tim Steelersfan said:
This ought to be good. Where do you work? It's not provided at my work (free or not).

How many of you work for a company where they provide free Covid vaccines?

Again, where do you work?
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Every health system provides free Covid and Flu vaccines to their employees and for good reason. You’re utterly clueless.
 
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