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Blame coaching if you want....

I don't think anybody is denying Ben sucked yesterday. He did, and he's a MAJOR reason we lost. With that said, without him, this team would be eliminated from playoffs a month ago. The same can not be said for Tomlin. I don't understand how so many flat out refuse to hold the head coach accountable for anything.

We can and do hold Tomlin accountable for some things but we don't have to hold him accountable for EVERYTHING. Some of yall wanna put EVERYTHING on coaching.....
 
Who is blaming him for everything? Show me where that's happening. As a matter of fact, in the very post you quoted, I said Ben was a major reason we lost. What are the things you are holding Tomlin (you know, the HEAD COACH) accountable for? THAT is what I'm not seeing.
 
Ben did not give up 274 passing yards to a hack QB that's only been on his team for 12 days. Ben did not give up 121 rushing yards to a couple of journeymen RB's. Ben did not give up 9 of 18 3rd down attempts. The defense is horrid. The secondary has been on serious decline for some time now and Tombert keeps on drafting undersized, under performing linebackers in the first round. Tomlin's strong suit was supposed to be his defensive mind. I just don't see. it.

But we all knew this defense had limitations and challenges......we leaned on this offense to produce victories this season and the last 5 games it logged 30-plus each game. Yesterday they didn't even post 20 and if not for 2 PI penalties, we may not have gotten 10 points...

Defense giving up 274 yards is not shocking.......defense giving up 8 3rd down conversions isn't too shocking.....this offense with Ben getting out-first downed, out-TOP'd, majorly upsetting.

We knew how ugly this defense could be without makeup......why are you so shocked.
 
When a player makes a mistake, it's on the player. When he makes that same mistake over and over and over, then it's on the coaches.

This is the problem with this team. We see the same mistakes again and again and it never seems to get corrected. Either the players are too dumb to take the coaching or the coaches suck as teachers.

Just look at the job Munchak has done with this OL. Before Munchak, this OL was clueless to the point that Decastro took out Pouncey. Munchak arrives and all of a sudden, the gang that couldn't block straight was doing a good job. That's a real coach.

How many position coaches can point to getting that much out of their guys?. Maybe the DL and WR coach, but who else?. Ben still plays like a young QB at times, the LBs suck and the secondary is a train wreck. Maybe you give Lake a pass because they secondary is made of spare parts.

Coaching is a huge part of the Steelers struggles.
 
That's not true. Personally, I've admitted when I've seen bad decisions from the HC, OC, DC, players - whoever...that goes for the majority of the Tomlin-supporters you speak of.

The difference is, IMO, that most try not to divide the team in a win or loss---some, around here, do.

Those are just the facts...
Would you be willing to admit that starting Blake and going back to the soft defense we used the first half against Denver (and most of the season) was a mistake. I haven't even heard one Tomlin supporter say that. Tomlin did that out of pure belligerence. He had to prove to the rest of the world he was right. I believe that got into the mindset of the team. When you think you're not given the best opportunity to win, it affects the way you play.
 
Name me some head coaches who have won multiple superbowls with average at best QBs...

Coaching matters but give me a great QB over a great coach any day of the week.
Coaching only gets you so far, once the players hit the field, they need to perform to their abilities.

I think Tomlin deserves blame. Anytime the team loses, eyes go to the HC immediately, as it should be but everything isn't his fault, every loss isn't his fault entirely.

Joe gibbs
 
Would you be willing to admit that starting Blake and going back to the soft defense we used the first half against Denver (and most of the season) was a mistake. I haven't even heard one Tomlin supporter say that. Tomlin did that out of pure belligerence. He had to prove to the rest of the world he was right. I believe that got into the mindset of the team.

So, the Rooney's, who, apparently, won't allow Tomlin to pick is own Coordinators, will let him make personnel decisions that risk their multi-million dollar franchise and their bottom line profits so his feelings don't get hurt? I can never and will never understand this argument.
 
Who is blaming him for everything? Show me where that's happening. As a matter of fact, in the very post you quoted, I said Ben was a major reason we lost. What are the things you are holding Tomlin (you know, the HEAD COACH) accountable for? THAT is what I'm not seeing.

Every loss, go back and read comments....every loss, coach is blamed...."they aren't prepared....."...."no emotion, no fire......that's on Tomlin". Playcalling by Haley....blame it on Tomlin for not intervening........Ben throws picks, uses 2 timeouts in the 3rd quarter.......Tomlin subsequently blamed for poor time and game management.

It sucks to constantly see blame thrown at the coach when the players themselves don't execute. Ben already took responsibility for this loss yet folks here still wanna put it on Tomlin.
Tomlin is blamed for postseason failures, yet his QUARTERBACK, seems to escape criticism of those same failures. Andy Dalton on the other hand is thrust into the crosshairs of criticism for Cincy's failures.

And all this **** about "not being prepared..."....what exactly does that mean to the average spectator ? Were they ready to play vs Denver or weren't they ? Is it hindset analysis that determines if the team was ready (as in if they won the game or lost). If the team falls behind 27-10 by quarter 3 does that suggest they weren't well prepared ? But as we saw last week if they turn it around and win, does that still mean they weren't prepared or were we premature in our judgement ? IMO these players are coached up during the week, the game plan put in place. Now, if they don't execute the game plan well or miss assignments or make miscues or turnovers, that cant be put on coaches. They give instruction, assignments and put them in position to be effective and to win games. Yesterday we were STILL in position to win that game, Bens poor performance withstanding........the defense held one last time to give this offense the ball with over 2 minutes ....more than enough time to drive and kick a tying fg or score a game winning TD. Things looked promising til the sack happened and it went downhill from there. That's not coaching...that's poor execution. Because this offense and its personnel have flourished in said scenarios before.

We all know our record vs lesser opponents is ******. We blame the coach, but who is the QB leader of this team and why does his record against those same ****** teams seem to escape the same level of criticism ? Whens the last time Ben won a playoff game ?.....whats the excuse ? Coaching ?
 
Every loss, go back and read comments....every loss, coach is blamed...."they aren't prepared....."...."no emotion, no fire......that's on Tomlin". Playcalling by Haley....blame it on Tomlin for not intervening........Ben throws picks, uses 2 timeouts in the 3rd quarter.......Tomlin subsequently blamed for poor time and game management.

It sucks to constantly see blame thrown at the coach when the players themselves don't execute. Ben already took responsibility for this loss yet folks here still wanna put it on Tomlin.
Tomlin is blamed for postseason failures, yet his QUARTERBACK, seems to escape criticism of those same failures. Andy Dalton on the other hand is thrust into the crosshairs of criticism for Cincy's failures.

And all this **** about "not being prepared..."....what exactly does that mean to the average spectator ? Were they ready to play vs Denver or weren't they ? Is it hindset analysis that determines if the team was ready (as in if they won the game or lost). If the team falls behind 27-10 by quarter 3 does that suggest they weren't well prepared ? But as we saw last week if they turn it around and win, does that still mean they weren't prepared or were we premature in our judgement ? IMO these players are coached up during the week, the game plan put in place. Now, if they don't execute the game plan well or miss assignments or make miscues or turnovers, that cant be put on coaches. They give instruction, assignments and put them in position to be effective and to win games. Yesterday we were STILL in position to win that game, Bens poor performance withstanding........the defense held one last time to give this offense the ball with over 2 minutes ....more than enough time to drive and kick a tying fg or score a game winning TD. Things looked promising til the sack happened and it went downhill from there. That's not coaching...that's poor execution. Because this offense and its personnel have flourished in said scenarios before.

We all know our record vs lesser opponents is ******. We blame the coach, but who is the QB leader of this team and why does his record against those same ****** teams seem to escape the same level of criticism ? Whens the last time Ben won a playoff game ?.....whats the excuse ? Coaching ?

A coach is ultimately responsible for W L's.

so YES

his teams come up short far too often

if it was only here and there that would be on the players...


too many ****** teams beating them?

THAT is coaching
 
When a player makes a mistake, it's on the player. When he makes that same mistake over and over and over, then it's on the coaches.

This is the problem with this team. We see the same mistakes again and again and it never seems to get corrected. Either the players are too dumb to take the coaching or the coaches suck as teachers.

Just look at the job Munchak has done with this OL. Before Munchak, this OL was clueless to the point that Decastro took out Pouncey. Munchak arrives and all of a sudden, the gang that couldn't block straight was doing a good job. That's a real coach.

How many position coaches can point to getting that much out of their guys?. Maybe the DL and WR coach, but who else?. Ben still plays like a young QB at times, the LBs suck and the secondary is a train wreck. Maybe you give Lake a pass because they secondary is made of spare parts.

Coaching is a huge part of the Steelers struggles.

Bens issue is he's stubborn and tries to get by on his talent alone. Id wish like hell, that he were more detail-oriented like Peyton or Brees. But he thinks his **** don't stink and he continues to adlib. But who are we to argue with the success hes had doing it how he does..............
 
If you don't think Marvin Lewis gets a ton of criticism you're out of your damn mind. Yes, people point at Dalton but mostly because he's NEVER won anything. Ben has won 2 SBs and multiple playoff games. So why are you shocked when people blame Dalton AND Lewis? Neither have ever won a damn thing.
 
Tomlin supporter is Tomlin supporter no ******* matter what. No point in even bothering to point out shortcomings or positives. That's all there is to it. Tomlin threads have morphed into politics and religion section. No matter what point is brought up for whatever side that you are on, you're wasting your time bringing it up
 
Perhaps fans can just be team supporters. Supportive of the players and coaches while they are on the team. Instead of constantly trying to create a mutiny with the infighting and create polarizing points of view. You have to remember that a majority of the fans land in the middle of these polar extremes.
 
Every post is the same.

"Ben had a terrible game, BUT..."

No. Ben lost the game Plain and simple.

How about these shocking figures:

Ben's QB Rating yesterday: 63%
Vicks QB Rating against Chargers: 73%

An elite QB doesnt get outplayed by Ryan Mallet. Nor does he need to be "Coached up".

First of all, quarterback rating is not a percentage.


So, you're saying Ben is not an elite quarterback because he had a bad game yesterday? But no one can say Tomlin isn't an elite coach, even though he hasn't won a single playoff game in five years...right?
 
First of all, quarterback rating is not a percentage.


So, you're saying Ben is not an elite quarterback because he had a bad game yesterday? But no one can say Tomlin isn't an elite coach, even though he hasn't won a single playoff game in five years...right?

he has been below the line for years

I question his above the neck decision making

obviously he needs to coach better
 
he has been below the line for years

I question his above the neck decision making

obviously he needs to coach better



So to speak, if only tomlin could "coach within his personality", his above the neck decisions would come faster and his gut would be less intrusive in the decision making.




Salute the nation
 
Tomlin will not live in his fears, but rather, he and his unwavering supporters will live in the past...as in the 2008 season, when his heavily favored squad was able to vanquish one of the worst Super Bowl participants in history (a 9-7 Cardinals team which was 6-0 against its 13-35 division opponents, and 3-7 against the rest of the league) by way of one of the greatest individual defensive plays ever, and a phenomenal game-winning drive by that "non-elite" quarterback.

If you will.
 
Tomlin is right at the top of the list for yesterday. The list is long. The only person in Cincy yesterday who has no responsibility is DeAngelo Williams. Tomlin not kicking that first FG shows how damn game situation stupid he truly is. He will never get better at it. I get killed and labeled some Tomin hugger which couldn't be further from the truth. He gets no room from me on that debacle yesterday.

Thing is, I can feel that way and be realistic. Dumbasses want to lose every game if that would get him fired? Excuse me if I'm glad I will never watch a game with someone that ******* stupid. You're an embarrassment. You're a fan, just not one wired anywhere near the way I am. Our players were a ******* joke yesterday. That team is injured beyond words, and they ***** slapped us in a must win. Ben stunk the entire game. Our supposed to be best WR combo in football did **** either. Our defense couldn't stop a QB who was kicking rocks two weeks ago. Excuse me if I'm tired of players who obviously don't give a **** as much as I do. Tomlin is incompetent and you'll never hear me say different, but he's one of many problems with this franchise right now.

As for us beating the Cardinals in the SB? Are they supposed to refuse to play them because they weren't thought to be the best team in the NFC? That's as ridiculous as the Patsies saying we never beat them on a run. You play who's in front of you. Period. Some of the arguments people use in this place are brain cell killing. Have a nice evening, and carry on.
 
Every loss, go back and read comments....every loss, coach is blamed...."they aren't prepared....."...."no emotion, no fire......that's on Tomlin". Playcalling by Haley....blame it on Tomlin for not intervening........Ben throws picks, uses 2 timeouts in the 3rd quarter.......Tomlin subsequently blamed for poor time and game management.

It sucks to constantly see blame thrown at the coach when the players themselves don't execute. Ben already took responsibility for this loss yet folks here still wanna put it on Tomlin.
Tomlin is blamed for postseason failures, yet his QUARTERBACK, seems to escape criticism of those same failures. Andy Dalton on the other hand is thrust into the crosshairs of criticism for Cincy's failures.

And all this **** about "not being prepared..."....what exactly does that mean to the average spectator ? Were they ready to play vs Denver or weren't they ? Is it hindset analysis that determines if the team was ready (as in if they won the game or lost). If the team falls behind 27-10 by quarter 3 does that suggest they weren't well prepared ? But as we saw last week if they turn it around and win, does that still mean they weren't prepared or were we premature in our judgement ? IMO these players are coached up during the week, the game plan put in place. Now, if they don't execute the game plan well or miss assignments or make miscues or turnovers, that cant be put on coaches. They give instruction, assignments and put them in position to be effective and to win games. Yesterday we were STILL in position to win that game, Bens poor performance withstanding........the defense held one last time to give this offense the ball with over 2 minutes ....more than enough time to drive and kick a tying fg or score a game winning TD. Things looked promising til the sack happened and it went downhill from there. That's not coaching...that's poor execution. Because this offense and its personnel have flourished in said scenarios before.

We all know our record vs lesser opponents is ******. We blame the coach, but who is the QB leader of this team and why does his record against those same ****** teams seem to escape the same level of criticism ? Whens the last time Ben won a playoff game ?.....whats the excuse ? Coaching ?

So I will ask ONE MORE TIME, since I can't get an answer to a simple question, what do you hold the head coach accountable for? This is a simple question.
 
Bens issue is he's stubborn and tries to get by on his talent alone. Id wish like hell, that he were more detail-oriented like Peyton or Brees. But he thinks his **** don't stink and he continues to adlib. But who are we to argue with the success hes had doing it how he does..............

I agree, but whose fault is that? It's Tomlin's because he has allowed Ben to do whatever he likes. Tomlin watched Arians nearly get Ben killed and did nothing. The Rooneys had to step in to fire Arians and get a different OC who would force Ben to get rid of the ball. Haley has done a great job of getting through to Ben that he doesn't need hold the ball but Ben still goes rogue too often.

Favre was like that and Holmgren held him in check. Elway was like that and Shanahan broke him out of that. Tomlin just lets his players do whatever they want with seemingly no repercussions.

This team has no leadership. The players should be able to motivate themselves but when they prove time and again that they can't then it is on the coaches to do that job.

I'm tired of seeing this team do dumb ****. Both on the field and in the coaching. Why were we in nickel so much against the Ravens? McLendon should have rarely left the field. The ravens must have been giggling to themselves when they saw McLendon off the field. The Steelers gameplanned as if they were facing Aaron Rodgers.

How can the steelers not stop outside zone runs?
How can they not stop any ****** WR or broke down TE stumbling down the seam?

I understood the struggles a few years ago when they had no speed on defense but now they added Mitchell at safety and Shazier at ILB and both can run with anybody. So what do they do? They have Timmons in coverage and Shazier getting his *** handed to him in the box and they have Mitchell playing like an ******* looking to lay people out.
 
Every loss, go back and read comments....every loss, coach is blamed...."they aren't prepared....."...."no emotion, no fire......that's on Tomlin". Playcalling by Haley....blame it on Tomlin for not intervening........Ben throws picks, uses 2 timeouts in the 3rd quarter.......Tomlin subsequently blamed for poor time and game management.

It sucks to constantly see blame thrown at the coach when the players themselves don't execute. Ben already took responsibility for this loss yet folks here still wanna put it on Tomlin.
Tomlin is blamed for postseason failures, yet his QUARTERBACK, seems to escape criticism of those same failures. Andy Dalton on the other hand is thrust into the crosshairs of criticism for Cincy's failures.

And all this **** about "not being prepared..."....what exactly does that mean to the average spectator ? Were they ready to play vs Denver or weren't they ? Is it hindset analysis that determines if the team was ready (as in if they won the game or lost). If the team falls behind 27-10 by quarter 3 does that suggest they weren't well prepared ? But as we saw last week if they turn it around and win, does that still mean they weren't prepared or were we premature in our judgement ? IMO these players are coached up during the week, the game plan put in place. Now, if they don't execute the game plan well or miss assignments or make miscues or turnovers, that cant be put on coaches. They give instruction, assignments and put them in position to be effective and to win games. Yesterday we were STILL in position to win that game, Bens poor performance withstanding........the defense held one last time to give this offense the ball with over 2 minutes ....more than enough time to drive and kick a tying fg or score a game winning TD. Things looked promising til the sack happened and it went downhill from there. That's not coaching...that's poor execution. Because this offense and its personnel have flourished in said scenarios before.

We all know our record vs lesser opponents is ******. We blame the coach, but who is the QB leader of this team and why does his record against those same ****** teams seem to escape the same level of criticism ? Whens the last time Ben won a playoff game ?.....whats the excuse ? Coaching ?[/QUOTE

You have a lot of balls to give anyone **** for blaming Tomlin for the loss and acting like you know so ******* much, why don't you go back and read your own post after a loss, YOU always put the blame on Ben. not on AB or on Bryant for dropped passes but always on Ben. We know that you can't blame Tomlin because he is black, you and others on this board make that perfectly clear. I don't think I have seen this much racial bullshit since Johnny Law was here. And did you see Rodgers numbers yesterday. 15 of 28 for 151 and a pick with no TD's in a 38 to 8 beating in a game they needed to win, and he is supposed to be the best in the business. Would you say that loss was on him or maybe it was the game plan or lack there of.

Oh and for the record Ben ALWAYS takes the blame for any loss. How many times have you heard coach dumb *** say hey this loss was on me I got out coached.
 
As for us beating the Cardinals in the SB? Are they supposed to refuse to play them because they weren't thought to be the best team in the NFC? That's as ridiculous as the Patsies saying we never beat them on a run. You play who's in front of you. Period. Some of the arguments people use in this place are brain cell killing. Have a nice evening, and carry on.

Not "ridiculous" at all, just brought it up because it took a remarkable individual play (improvised by Harrison himself, nothing to do with the coaching he'd received), and one of the greatest late drives in the history of the Super Bowl for Tomlin to win his lone Super Bowl, against one of the weakest teams to ever appear in the game. Tomlin's supporters hang on tooth-and-nail to that win, seven long years ago, like it somehow proves he's a great coach. Yet here we sit without so much as a single playoff win in five seasons. That's what should be killing your brain cells.

Have a nice evening.
 
Every loss, go back and read comments....every loss, coach is blamed...."they aren't prepared....."...."no emotion, no fire......that's on Tomlin". Playcalling by Haley....blame it on Tomlin for not intervening........Ben throws picks, uses 2 timeouts in the 3rd quarter.......Tomlin subsequently blamed for poor time and game management.

It sucks to constantly see blame thrown at the coach when the players themselves don't execute. Ben already took responsibility for this loss yet folks here still wanna put it on Tomlin.
Tomlin is blamed for postseason failures, yet his QUARTERBACK, seems to escape criticism of those same failures. Andy Dalton on the other hand is thrust into the crosshairs of criticism for Cincy's failures.

And all this **** about "not being prepared..."....what exactly does that mean to the average spectator ? Were they ready to play vs Denver or weren't they ? Is it hindset analysis that determines if the team was ready (as in if they won the game or lost). If the team falls behind 27-10 by quarter 3 does that suggest they weren't well prepared ? But as we saw last week if they turn it around and win, does that still mean they weren't prepared or were we premature in our judgement ? IMO these players are coached up during the week, the game plan put in place. Now, if they don't execute the game plan well or miss assignments or make miscues or turnovers, that cant be put on coaches. They give instruction, assignments and put them in position to be effective and to win games. Yesterday we were STILL in position to win that game, Bens poor performance withstanding........the defense held one last time to give this offense the ball with over 2 minutes ....more than enough time to drive and kick a tying fg or score a game winning TD. Things looked promising til the sack happened and it went downhill from there. That's not coaching...that's poor execution. Because this offense and its personnel have flourished in said scenarios before.

We all know our record vs lesser opponents is ******. We blame the coach, but who is the QB leader of this team and why does his record against those same ****** teams seem to escape the same level of criticism ? Whens the last time Ben won a playoff game ?.....whats the excuse ? Coaching ?

Do you ever give credit to Ben when we win?
 
Not "ridiculous" at all, just brought it up because it took a remarkable individual play (improvised by Harrison himself, nothing to do with the coaching he'd received), and one of the greatest late drives in the history of the Super Bowl for Tomlin to win his lone Super Bowl, against one of the weakest teams to ever appear in the game. Tomlin's supporters hang on tooth-and-nail to that win, seven long years ago, like it somehow proves he's a great coach. Yet here we sit without so much as a single playoff win in five seasons. That's what should be killing your brain cells.

Have a nice evening.

Tomlin's incompetence shouldn't really be a question for anybody at this point. Don't let others who are blind homers bait you into using arguments like that. This place as a whole has become mind numbing as more and more of the regime that made it what it was fades away. It's a shame.
 
Every loss, go back and read comments....every loss, coach is blamed...."they aren't prepared....."...."no emotion, no fire......that's on Tomlin". Playcalling by Haley....blame it on Tomlin for not intervening........Ben throws picks, uses 2 timeouts in the 3rd quarter.......Tomlin subsequently blamed for poor time and game management.

It sucks to constantly see blame thrown at the coach when the players themselves don't execute. Ben already took responsibility for this loss yet folks here still wanna put it on Tomlin.
Tomlin is blamed for postseason failures, yet his QUARTERBACK, seems to escape criticism of those same failures. Andy Dalton on the other hand is thrust into the crosshairs of criticism for Cincy's failures.

And all this **** about "not being prepared..."....what exactly does that mean to the average spectator ? Were they ready to play vs Denver or weren't they ? Is it hindset analysis that determines if the team was ready (as in if they won the game or lost). If the team falls behind 27-10 by quarter 3 does that suggest they weren't well prepared ? But as we saw last week if they turn it around and win, does that still mean they weren't prepared or were we premature in our judgement ? IMO these players are coached up during the week, the game plan put in place. Now, if they don't execute the game plan well or miss assignments or make miscues or turnovers, that cant be put on coaches. They give instruction, assignments and put them in position to be effective and to win games. Yesterday we were STILL in position to win that game, Bens poor performance withstanding........the defense held one last time to give this offense the ball with over 2 minutes ....more than enough time to drive and kick a tying fg or score a game winning TD. Things looked promising til the sack happened and it went downhill from there. That's not coaching...that's poor execution. Because this offense and its personnel have flourished in said scenarios before.

We all know our record vs lesser opponents is ******. We blame the coach, but who is the QB leader of this team and why does his record against those same ****** teams seem to escape the same level of criticism ? Whens the last time Ben won a playoff game ?.....whats the excuse ? Coaching ?[/QUOTE

You have a lot of balls to give anyone **** for blaming Tomlin for the loss and acting like you know so ******* much, why don't you go back and read your own post after a loss, YOU always put the blame on Ben. not on AB or on Bryant for dropped passes but always on Ben. We know that you can't blame Tomlin because he is black, you and others on this board make that perfectly clear. I don't think I have seen this much racial bullshit since Johnny Law was here. And did you see Rodgers numbers yesterday. 15 of 28 for 151 and a pick with no TD's in a 38 to 8 beating in a game they needed to win, and he is supposed to be the best in the business. Would you say that loss was on him or maybe it was the game plan or lack there of.

Oh and for the record Ben ALWAYS takes the blame for any loss. How many times have you heard coach dumb *** say hey this loss was on me I got out coached.

Tomlin never accepts personal responsibility after these types of losses, which always seem to happen a few times every season.

The sad thing is that I think he sincerely believes he isn't doing anything wrong, so nothing changes, enabling the same **** to happen year after year. I used to attribute it primarily to rigid arrogance, but I'm beginning to think the guy is just delusional.

I still do not see the overall appeal of Tomlin.

He established himself in the league as a defensive-oriented coach, focusing on the secondary, yet the pass defense has gradually eroded to the point of being among the worst in the league over the past several seasons under his watch, and he seems to have no clue how to fix it.

It's reached the point where we should almost expect a mediocre passer to have a big day against the Steelers.

We're stuck with him for at least three more seasons.
 
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