Blame coaching if you want....

[Stryker]

I'm sorry but Ben doing a coast to coast drive against the best defense in the playoffs that year, coming back against a HOF QB and WR to do so, is no small feat.

Personally both sides of this argument are getting fixated at the wrong ends of it. If you think Tomlin is all to blame, you're wrong. If you think Ben is all to blame, you're wrong.

It's a team game, and a systemic loss with tons of blame to go around.

Tomlin, Haley, Butler, Lake, Porter, Blake, Allen, Ben, Butterfingers-Bryant, Villanueva, and the rest of the team share this clusterfuck.

Get off your soapboxes and agenda trains on both sides and realize it's a team ******* game and they're all responsible for that beating.

 

[skialta]

Tomlin never accepts personal responsibility after these types of losses, which always seem to happen a few times every season.

The sad thing is that I think he sincerely believes he isn't doing anything wrong, so nothing changes, enabling the same **** to happen year after year. I used to attribute it primarily to rigid arrogance, but I'm beginning to think the guy is just delusional.

I still do not see the overall appeal of Tomlin.

He established himself in the league as a defensive-oriented coach, focusing on the secondary, yet the pass defense has gradually eroded to the point of being among the worst in the league over the past several seasons under his watch, and he seems to have no clue how to fix it.

It's reached the point where we should almost expect a mediocre passer to have a big day against the Steelers.

We're stuck with him for at least three more seasons.

Actually the year before he came here, Tomlin's Vikings were ranked DEAD LAST against the pass.

 

[skialta]

But we all knew this defense had limitations and challenges......we leaned on this offense to produce victories this season and the last 5 games it logged 30-plus each game. Yesterday they didn't even post 20 and if not for 2 PI penalties, we may not have gotten 10 points...

Defense giving up 274 yards is not shocking.......defense giving up 8 3rd down conversions isn't too shocking.....this offense with Ben getting out-first downed, out-TOP'd, majorly upsetting.

We knew how ugly this defense could be without makeup......why are you so shocked.

I wonder who built that defense

 

[SteelerSask2]

I'm sorry but Ben doing a coast to coast drive against the best defense in the playoffs that year, coming back against a HOF QB and WR to do so, is no small feat.

Personally both sides of this argument are getting fixated at the wrong ends of it. If you think Tomlin is all to blame, you're wrong. If you think Ben is all to blame, you're wrong.

It's a team game, and a systemic loss with tons of blame to go around.

Tomlin, Haley, Butler, Lake, Porter, Blake, Allen, Ben, Butterfingers-Bryant, Villanueva, and the rest of the team share this clusterfuck.

Get off your soapboxes and agenda trains on both sides and realize it's a team ******* game and they're all responsible for that beating.

That is so true. But there is one man who is tasked with overall responsibility for it. And that is the HC. Now the HC can chose to cut Allen, Blake, Villanueva etc.. He can fire Butler, Porter or whoever. But it is incumbent upon the owner and the GM to decide about the HC. As sure as there is snow on the ground in Saskatchewan right now, in y mind this team will never win another SB with Mike Tomlin leading this team.

 

[hook]

But we all knew this defense had limitations and challenges......we leaned on this offense to produce victories this season and the last 5 games it logged 30-plus each game. Yesterday they didn't even post 20 and if not for 2 PI penalties, we may not have gotten 10 points...

Defense giving up 274 yards is not shocking.......defense giving up 8 3rd down conversions isn't too shocking.....this offense with Ben getting out-first downed, out-TOP'd, majorly upsetting.

We knew how ugly this defense could be without makeup......why are you so shocked.

I'm not shocked. I'm just pissed that Tombert has paid little attention to the obvious. The defense was already long in the tooth when we won SB XLIII. Troy was already showing signs of slowing down. Ike was getting up there etc. My point is that Tomlin's supposed expertise was on defense, yet with the results we have right now you can't blame them being old Cowher's players. This is the team/defense HE/Tomlin has assembled. It SUCKS. His drafting is horrid on the defensive side. Our last 3 #1's have produced very little. Jones is undersized, hurt all of the time and pretty much just sucks. Shazier is undersized and is hurt all of the time. I think he'd be better of playing safety. Dupree, well he gets a pass because he's a rookie. But he's no stand out. He's done nothing so far that has me thinking this guy just has it. Our drafting of DB's is just plain stupid. Every team in the league is going to taller WR's and we keep drafting DB's that aren't even 6 foot tall. That's just retarded. Willie Gay has turned out to be ok, but aside from him the rest of that secondary is just garbage and they are ALL Tomlin's players. Not only do these guys not cover well, they don't tackle well either. That's on coaching.

 

[blitzburghv5]

Do you ever give credit to Ben when we win?

Geeze man ....of course I give him credit...ive said hes one of the best in the game at his position. But he does dumb **** that's often attributed to rookies. I like Ben, but im not one to shy away from holding him responsible when he ***** up and Sunday he ****** up. He stunk...you know it, you saw it, probably reacted quite extreme when you saw those picks and those ill advised sacks.

That Denver game, last week...........he pulled another dumb stunt (nearly costing us that game) and threw that pick when we needed to sustain a drive and run clock. If we wish to elevate him to the top echelon of the elite QBs in this game, he needs be a lot smarter with the football and manage the game better.

 

[Super Dave]

Geeze man ....of course I give him credit...ive said hes one of the best in the game at his position. But he does dumb **** that's often attributed to rookies. I like Ben, but im not one to shy away from holding him responsible when he ***** up and Sunday he ****** up. He stunk...you know it, you saw it, probably reacted quite extreme when you saw those picks and those ill advised sacks.

That Denver game, last week...........he pulled another dumb stunt (nearly costing us that game) and threw that pick when we needed to sustain a drive and run clock. If we wish to elevate him to the top echelon of the elite QBs in this game, he needs be a lot smarter with the football and manage the game better.

I only ask because I went back through the Cincy and the Denver Game threads and the only comment I saw you make pertaining to Ben was the negative one after that horrid pick. You called him a mother ******.

Despite that horrid pick he had 2 pretty good games there........

 

[cxrman]

Tomlin supporter is Tomlin supporter no ******* matter what. No point in even bothering to point out shortcomings or positives. That's all there is to it. Tomlin threads have morphed into politics and religion section. No matter what point is brought up for whatever side that you are on, you're wasting your time bringing it up

Same thing can be said about the Tomlin haters.....what bugs me is all you guys who want a coaching change never go out on a limb and name the coach you'd replace him with.

 

[xjx]

Eat some crow crxman. I suggested kyle Shanahan or mike shula as replacement coach. Do you need some mustard with that crow?

 

[cxrman]

Eat some crow crxman. I suggested kyle Shanahan or mike shula as replacement coach. Do you need some mustard with that crow?

I'll eat my crow xjx but other than you I haven't seen any coaches named. Oh and by the way what do you like about either of those 2? I haven't been overly impress with either on e of those.

 

[mdk2]

Actually the year before he came here, Tomlin's Vikings were ranked DEAD LAST against the pass.

Around here when the defense is bad it falls mostly on Tomlin.. so shouldn't those stats fall on the HC of Vikings at that time?

Tomlin didn't draft those players on the Vikings or have any say in the picks, if the players aren't good it's not his fault.. a lot like how Tomlin receives no credit for the SB win because he won it with Cowher's players.

If you're going to a judge a coach on certain things then be consistent.

 

[bermudasteel]

Would you be willing to admit that starting Blake and going back to the soft defense we used the first half against Denver (and most of the season) was a mistake. I haven't even heard one Tomlin supporter say that. Tomlin did that out of pure belligerence. He had to prove to the rest of the world he was right. I believe that got into the mindset of the team. When you think you're not given the best opportunity to win, it affects the way you play.

Of course. Go see my posts in the game day threads...

 

[steelcan58]

Of course. Go see my posts in the game day threads...

I would say you are in the minority. I still think a great deal of Tomlin's problem is over confidence bordering on belligerence. I don't have a huge problem with him not admitting he was wrong. Belichick (I hate using him as the standard - but he is) is the most belligerent of them all. I've never heard him say he's made a mistake. But he will privately acknowledge mistakes and adjust accordingly. Last week when Tomlin went back to Blake and soft coverage only accentuated how stubborn he is and unwilling to change things.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I would say you are in the minority. I still think a great deal of Tomlin's problem is over confidence bordering on belligerence. I don't have a huge problem with him not admitting he was wrong. Belichick (I hate using him as the standard - but he is) is the most belligerent of them all. I've never heard him say he's made a mistake. But he will privately acknowledge mistakes and adjust accordingly. Last week when Tomlin went back to Blake and soft coverage only accentuated how stubborn he is and unwilling to change things.

Why is it just Tomlin though we've said the Steelers need to press and tight for 20 years now

 

[diver]

Why is it just Tomlin though we've said the Steelers need to press and tight for 20 years now

They were doing it with Noll in the 70s. They had a front 4 than that could get pressure, and offenses didn't do as much dink and dunk. I really didn't realize that. I remember those SBs, but I was young, so you only care they won, you aren't looking at the nuances. I have those SBs on DVD, and I noticed them dropping off.

 

[SteelerFan448]

When the offensive line failed with high draft picks, Tomlin fired his offensive line coach--multiple times.

When they weren't getting the results expected from the receivers, he found a new receivers coach.

Ben was getting hit too much and the offense wasn't maximizing its potential, they got rid of Arians.

The defense faded from its dominant days, so they dump LeBeau.

The team continually loses to the dregs of the NFL and hasn't won a playoff game since 2011. That has to fall on someone. The Steelers goal isn't to compete for a playoff spot every year, it is to compete for a championship and they are on the verge of missing the playoffs in what is arguably the worst field of AFC playoff teams and quarterbacks in a generation.

 

[slashsteel]

When the offensive line failed with high draft picks, Tomlin fired his offensive line coach--multiple times.

When they weren't getting the results expected from the receivers, he found a new receivers coach.

Ben was getting hit too much and the offense wasn't maximizing its potential, they got rid of Arians.

The defense faded from its dominant days, so they dump LeBeau.

The team continually loses to the dregs of the NFL and hasn't won a playoff game since 2011. That has to fall on someone. The Steelers goal isn't to compete for a playoff spot every year, it is to compete for a championship and they are on the verge of missing the playoffs in what is arguably the worst field of AFC playoff teams and quarterbacks in a generation.

so none of that was the owners pushing for it?

 

[SteelerFan448]

so none of that was the owners pushing for it?

I am pretty much convinced Arians and LeBeau were ARII moves. The WR coach left for a college job, I believe, so they didn't even "fire" him. In fact, there haven't been too many coaches straight up fired in recent years. They either retire, resign or leave for other jobs.

 

[slashsteel]

I am pretty much convinced Arians and LeBeau were ARII moves. The WR coach left for a college job, I believe, so they didn't even "fire" him. In fact, there haven't been too many coaches straight up fired in recent years. They either retire, resign or leave for other jobs.

So most weren't due to Tomlin making the right decision.

I tell you what I hate from them. It is that oh we both make the decisions and agree on them.... crap they feed us.

I don't believe it as I think it is ultimately one with the final no.

But if Colbert has regressed IMO he can follow Tomlin out the door.

 

[Spike]

Just like I perdicted


Starkey: Steelers' arrogance has gotten them nowhere

The 2015 Steelers seem to have an awfully high opinion of themselves.

I'm still trying to figure out why.

Besides beating the Arizona Cardinals, this team's marquee wins were against AJ McCarron and Brock Osweiler. And man, did the Steelers squawk after the McCarron win. Never mind that the alternative — losing to a lightly regarded novice in his first significant action — would have been embarrassing.

Nobody's squawking this week, not after falling to Ryan Mallett and the Baltimore Ravens' JV team. The Steelers apparently thought they could railroad the Ravens like the Chiefs and Seahawks had in the previous two weeks (combined score: 69-20). They should have known better. The Ravens have now beaten them eight times in their past 11 tries.

Since the win at Cincinnati, the Steelers have played one good half. They acted that day as if they had won a playoff game — something they haven't actually done since John Russell managed the Pirates.

(more)

http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/9709345-74/steelers-bad-tomlin#axzz3vu8TE8f8

 

[POP]

so none of that was the owners pushing for it?

Almost all of it was, of course. Tomlin doesn't have hire/fire power with ***. coaches. If he did, LeBeau would still be here.

 

[POP]

Just like I perdicted


Starkey: Steelers' arrogance has gotten them nowhere

The 2015 Steelers seem to have an awfully high opinion of themselves.

I'm still trying to figure out why.

Besides beating the Arizona Cardinals, this team's marquee wins were against AJ McCarron and Brock Osweiler. And man, did the Steelers squawk after the McCarron win. Never mind that the alternative — losing to a lightly regarded novice in his first significant action — would have been embarrassing.

Nobody's squawking this week, not after falling to Ryan Mallett and the Baltimore Ravens' JV team. The Steelers apparently thought they could railroad the Ravens like the Chiefs and Seahawks had in the previous two weeks (combined score: 69-20). They should have known better. The Ravens have now beaten them eight times in their past 11 tries.

Since the win at Cincinnati, the Steelers have played one good half. They acted that day as if they had won a playoff game — something they haven't actually done since John Russell managed the Pirates.

(more)

http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/9709345-74/steelers-bad-tomlin#axzz3vu8TE8f8

"Tomlin's best hope of winning in Foxborough would be Bill Belichick and Tom Brady literally dying of laughter as they watched film of the Steelers secondary."

It would be funny if it weren't so true.

 

[mdk2]

Just like I perdicted


Starkey: Steelers' arrogance has gotten them nowhere

The 2015 Steelers seem to have an awfully high opinion of themselves.

I'm still trying to figure out why.

Besides beating the Arizona Cardinals, this team's marquee wins were against AJ McCarron and Brock Osweiler. And man, did the Steelers squawk after the McCarron win. Never mind that the alternative — losing to a lightly regarded novice in his first significant action — would have been embarrassing.

Nobody's squawking this week, not after falling to Ryan Mallett and the Baltimore Ravens' JV team. The Steelers apparently thought they could railroad the Ravens like the Chiefs and Seahawks had in the previous two weeks (combined score: 69-20). They should have known better. The Ravens have now beaten them eight times in their past 11 tries.

Since the win at Cincinnati, the Steelers have played one good half. They acted that day as if they had won a playoff game — something they haven't actually done since John Russell managed the Pirates.

(more)

http://triblive.com/sports/joestarkey/9709345-74/steelers-bad-tomlin#axzz3vu8TE8f8

I'm not sure how they acted as if they won a playoff game.. sounds like an opinion.
He's no more right than I am for saying I saw nothing that made me believe they thought they won a playoff game.

 

[Spike]

I have MORE respect for the Trib for not sugar coating things.. The last thing I want to hear right now is any rah-rah cheerleading from the homers in the press.

Maybe a little heat from the local rags will light a fire under this handpicked bunch of underachievers.