A question

[Coryea]

we wouldnt have THIS defense.

It wouldn't taken 9 years to build a defense.

 

[diver]

I do have to laugh a bit reading this. I remember after the AFCCG in 2004 so many fans would have run Cowher through. I remember arguing with people who said he hasn't won it in 14 years, he never will. I didn't and still don't understand that logic. Each year stands on it's own.

But boy, there is a little bit of bullshit here.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

call it out then...

why prevaricate about the Rhododendrons?

 

[steelhurt]

Jesus people, a Linebacker covering a WR happens from time to time no matter how good a coach is. In that game the play calls on defense were totally handcuffed by playing a lot of people in positions they were not used to playing and or were new to the team. I am absolutely sure that isn't what they wanted but simply what the offensive formation, play call and motion forced them into. If it is true Tomlin has been calling defenses he has done a pretty good job of it over the year. That game was a train wreck but it was a slow culmination of a lot of different things not the least of which was injuries and covid. I am not sure some of the guys out there like the OLBs we had to play with Highsmith out and even our ILBs were up to speed on our whole package to be able to make much adjustments.

A LB'er trying to cover Jarvis Landry is not sound defensive strategy, This defense did not play nearly as well the second half of season some can be blamed on injury but you have to also account for the defensive formations and scheme. Two defensive lineman never works especially when your defense is designed to put pressure on the QB. The tackling remains poor which at this level is inexcusable and I put that on the coaches.

 

[Coryea]

Jesus people, a Linebacker covering a WR happens from time to time no matter how good a coach is. In that game the play calls on defense were totally handcuffed by playing a lot of people in positions they were not used to playing and or were new to the team. I am absolutely sure that isn't what they wanted but simply what the offensive formation, play call and motion forced them into. If it is true Tomlin has been calling defenses he has done a pretty good job of it over the year. That game was a train wreck but it was a slow culmination of a lot of different things not the least of which was injuries and covid. I am not sure some of the guys out there like the OLBs we had to play with Highsmith out and even our ILBs were up to speed on our whole package to be able to make much adjustments.

Yes, a ILB getting stuck on a WR does happen from time to time, but that's a staple when it comes to Tomlin, pick your NE WR, Welker, Hogan, Edelman they've all killed our ILB's in coverage, Keenan Allen on his 11 targets last season or the season before whichever year it was, 9 of his 11 catches were on an ILB, including a big 3rd down late with the game on the line. That's just not coincidence. Hell we covered Landry with Spillane who was on IR for how many weeks and wasn't able to even been in game shape. One play he covered Landry and there were only two WR's in the game. How weren't the ILB's up to speed, Vince has been starting all season, Spillane was doing fine after Bush got hurt, and Willamson was actually getting better and better. The better answer is there were NO adjustments.
How about using an extra DB to cover him? Why is that so hard? You're playing a running team, the best running team in the NFL. Why have only have two Dlinemen in the game, you're just going to get your *** shoved off the ball there. Why not use 3 DL, 3 LB's, 5 DB's there's your extra DB to cover Landry.
Why do you have your all pro playmaking safety 20 yards off the LOS when they're running the ball and throwing everything short and quick?
When Highsmith went out, instead of bringing some no name guy (Marsh) bring a damn extra Dlinemen in the game, they were in kill clock mode anyways.

Face it Tomlin got outcoached by a guy in his basement, that couldn't even hold in person meetings or practices. They made obvious adjustments from the week 17 game, we did nothing as usual.

 

[Stryker]

Yes, a ILB getting stuck on a WR does happen from time to time, but that's a staple when it comes to Tomlin, pick your NE WR, Welker, Hogan, Edelman they've all killed our ILB's in coverage, Keenan Allen on his 11 targets last season or the season before whichever year it was, 9 of his 11 catches were on an ILB, including a big 3rd down late with the game on the line. That's just not coincidence. Hell we covered Landry with Spillane who was on IR for how many weeks and wasn't able to even been in game shape. One play he covered Landry and there were only two WR's in the game. How weren't the ILB's up to speed, Vince has been starting all season, Spillane was doing fine after Bush got hurt, and Willamson was actually getting better and better. The better answer is there were NO adjustments.
How about using an extra DB to cover him? Why is that so hard? You're playing a running team, the best running team in the NFL. Why have only have two Dlinemen in the game, you're just going to get your *** shoved off the ball there. Why not use 3 DL, 3 LB's, 5 DB's there's your extra DB to cover Landry.
Why do you have your all pro playmaking safety 20 yards off the LOS when they're running the ball and throwing everything short and quick?
When Highsmith went out, instead of bringing some no name guy (Marsh) bring a damn extra Dlinemen in the game, they were in kill clock mode anyways.

Face it Tomlin got outcoached by a guy in his basement, that couldn't even hold in person meetings or practices. They made obvious adjustments from the week 17 game, we did nothing as usual.

Look around the league. Our team is not unique to a LB on a WR. It's called getting stuck in Zone D on your base set. It has more to do with the offense taking advantage of the matchup. Though I don't defend not being in Nickel or Dime at end of Game vs San Diego. That was a coaching mistake.

 

[Coryea]

Look around the league. Our team is not unique to a LB on a WR. It's called getting stuck in Zone D on your base set. It has more to do with the offense taking advantage of the matchup. Though I don't defend not being in Nickel or Dime at end of Game vs San Diego. That was a coaching mistake.

As I said at the beginning of my post, it does happen.
How do we have an ILB on a WR when there was only 2 WR's on the field on one play.
What is unique to our team is a coaching adjustment, that never happens. How many times does the WR have to be matched up on your ILB before you catch on?

 

[diver]

call it out then...

why prevaricate about the Rhododendrons?

I did somewhat. I can't recall who exactly advanced the theory that Cowher would never win after 14 years, but it was quite a few. I remember arguing with the guy who did a great job on here with the draft...I think he used to publish his draft evaluations. I respected the guy and his football knowledge, we just disagreed on that. Btw, I never advanced the theory Cowher would win one, either. I just don't understand how one can say since it hadn't happened in 14 years, it never would.

It's like a lot of things. I remember an old timer telling me years ago that all that talk about the good old days many times was just that, talk. Sometimes they were great, other times they were lousy. Just like the present.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I did somewhat. I can't recall who exactly advanced the theory that Cowher would never win after 14 years, but it was quite a few. I remember arguing with the guy who did a great job on here with the draft...I think he used to publish his draft evaluations. I respected the guy and his football knowledge, we just disagreed on that. Btw, I never advanced the theory Cowher would win one, either. I just don't understand how one can say since it hadn't happened in 14 years, it never would.

It's like a lot of things. I remember an old timer telling me years ago that all that talk about the good old days many times was just that, talk. Sometimes they were great, other times they were lousy. Just like the present.

The big difference Is that before Cowher finally scored, he regularly got to third base. Tomlin has struggled to even get a date for a decade now.

Others have pointed out how the past decade of Steelers football has been comparable to the 1980s in terms of post season success, and those were considered dark times.

Noll did not have a QB. What's Tomlin's excuse?

 

[Stryker]

The big difference Is that before Cowher finally scored, he regularly got to third base. Tomlin has struggled to even get a date for a decade now.

Others have pointed out how the past decade of Steelers football has been comparable to the 1980s in terms of post season success, and those were considered dark times.

Noll did not have a QB. What's Tomlin's excuse?

Brady, Manning, and Maholmes in their conference? I remember some great Oakland, Houston, and Browns teams that couldn't win SBs in teh 70s.

 

[Coryea]

Brady, Manning, and Maholmes in their conference? I remember some great Oakland, Houston, and Browns teams that couldn't win SBs in teh 70s.

We've lost to Mayfield, Bortles, Flacco, and Tebow. Mayfield, Bortles, Flacco were all at home and we gave up a total of 123 points combined in those 3 home games, and Tebow we allowed him to throw for 331 yards 3TD's on 10 completions, you can't even make that up.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Brady, Manning, and Maholmes in their conference? I remember some great Oakland, Houston, and Browns teams that couldn't win SBs in teh 70s.

I would take a playoff win period at this point.

It's not like they've been getting beaten by the cream of the crop much of the time.

 

[diver]

The big difference Is that before Cowher finally scored, he regularly got to third base. Tomlin has struggled to even get a date for a decade now.

Others have pointed out how the past decade of Steelers football has been comparable to the 1980s in terms of post season success, and those were considered dark times.

Noll did not have a QB. What's Tomlin's excuse?

I'm not arguing with you over Tomlin. What I am saying is in no way a defense of him. I am just reminding people that in late January of 2005 many people sounded the somewhat the same way about Cowher that they do Tomlin today. The nice things being said about him now were not being said overwhelmingly then. Let's not rewrite history.

 

[Coryea]

I'm not arguing with you over Tomlin. What I am saying is in no way a defense of him. I am just reminding people that in late January of 2005 many people sounded the somewhat the same way about Cowher that they do Tomlin today. The nice things being said about him now were not being said overwhelmingly then. Let's not rewrite history.

even then, we won 3 playoff games in 4 seasons. So the fans should be in far more of an uproar now.

 

[Drink IRON City]

we wouldnt have THIS defense.

You mean better,....... Right?





Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

Brady, Manning, and Maholmes in their conference? I remember some great Oakland, Houston, and Browns teams that couldn't win SBs in teh 70s.

I hear yay Cope but Remeber that NOLL had a pretty good QB through out the 70s.

I think that had a good factor in keeping those respective teams out.






Salute the nation

 

[FSF]

I really don't know, as the league has morphed considerably into a passing league since wild Bill has coached. Love me some Cowher just don't know how he handles that big change in philosophy.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Steeler Nation mobile app

In 2003–Cowher visioned Tommy Maddox leading a Rams type passing offense & went all-in. It failed as Maddox wasn’t Kurt Warner and Amos was definitely not Faulk.

Just because he didn’t open up the offense into a passing first wasn’t because he couldn’t but he didn’t have the QB with the ability to. Not O’Donnell — though he pushed that limit in 1995. He brought Roethlisberger along brilliantly but moved on with life by the time Big Ben could win with his arm as primary option.

Cowher could adapt. His Hall of Fame was late but Uber deserved.


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[6Lombardis]

People will hate this topic but I'll play.

I'd say Cowher and Ben would have 5 SBs.

Not going through Manning and Brady and now Mahomes. No way they get FIVE. I’d say maybe one more for a total of three.

 

[6Lombardis]

We've lost to Mayfield, Bortles, Flacco, and Tebow. Mayfield, Bortles, Flacco were all at home and we gave up a total of 123 points combined in those 3 home games, and Tebow we allowed him to throw for 331 yards 3TD's on 10 completions, you can't even make that up.

And they then would have faced a QB name like Cope said, so the OP was asking how many more SB we win, not first or second rounders. Just because we lost to the names you mention doesn’t change the fact that we would have had to go through those other good QBs to win it all.

 

[6Lombardis]

hahaha. While Cowher had his flaws his teams are prepared,played physically and at a championship level. We haven't looked like a champion in 12 years. We are really good at looking ahead,tic toc dances, end zone group pictures and looking like a team chasing its own tail. In essence the culture and mystique of the Steelers are gone. They're a mere shadown of their former selves.

That's my view.

10 years, actually. The 2010 team was championship caliber.

 

[Coryea]

We beat Manning in his prime on his home field under Cowher with Ben.

And they then would have faced a QB name like Cope said, so the OP was asking how many more SB we win, not first or second rounders. Just because we lost to the names you mention doesn’t change the fact that we would have had to go through those other good QBs to win it all.

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[Turd Ferguson]

Bottom-line to me is Cowher got more from less (O’Donnell, Korky) and Tomlin got less from more (Ben).

I really feel even if Tomlin coached the 94/95 or even the 2001 Steelers they don’t get out of the first round of the playoffs.

 

[Wvuluca]

We need to get rid of big ben


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[SojournerSteel]

Cowher without the personal life problems would have probably won at least 1-2 more. You can’t discount the personal stuff though, as it happened and he wasn’t going to be the coach. Given the reality of the situation, with the Rooney Rule as it is, I can’t imagine another plausible outcome for how the coaching decisions were handled back then. It would have taken a different owner to make a different outcome. There was no way to concretely know Mike Tomlin’s flaws as a head coach back then. My main reservations were his lack of overall coaching experience and a general lack of _quality_ experience. The selection was essentially a big gamble instead of a well reasoned pick, when you consider this is an organization widely recognized for being at the top. I think the early successes helped to bolster the selection, but by 2012 it was apparent to most that there were some fundamental issues that can’t easily be fixed. Many fans have made the move from hard core to casual over the past 8 years as the cycle has repeated.

To answer this question though, yes, I believe had a top tier coach at Cowher’s level or better would have produced more playoff and Super Bowl wins with the talent the front office has supplied over the past 14 years. This is simply based on better strategic game preparation and in game adjustments, even keeping player, time, and challenge management performance exactly the same.

Very well said. I used to be a die hard. Knew who Tomlin was pretty early on, and as the team doubled and tripled down on him my interest gradually waned because the movie just got old.

I believe there are many of us who no longer care about the team like we once did.

To me, Tomlin also dragged the franchise down with the sideline incident and the debacle over the flag with AV and the hooligan's patch they wore to start this season.

 

[SojournerSteel]

We beat Manning in his prime on his home field under Cowher with Ben.

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And Cowher learned from the regular season loss when his team was unprepared for the noise.

Shades would have been quoted leaving the field at halftime down 28-7, "you know it's not really about them, it's about us and our collective execution.."