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A question

Question, is Belichick still coaching and Brady still QB'ing the Pats* in this scenario? Because if they are, I'm thinking Cowher comes out with the same amount of SBs as Tomlin got. There's this narrative about Cowher. And it's a pretty cool one. Loved the guy myself. But, as I remember, it was Cowher/LeBeau's defense that Belichick exposed first. Spread that base 3-4 out and make them chase you all over the field.
Now, if we were living in an alternate universe, where the league sanctioned cheating Pats* weren't the dominant team of the era, Cowher wins a couple more. But, we aren't. And he wasn't getting past those cheating ******** any more than the other guy. jmho
 
SteelBuckeye said:
Question, is Belichick still coaching and Brady still QB'ing the Pats* in this scenario? Because if they are, I'm thinking Cowher comes out with the same amount of SBs as Tomlin got. There's this narrative about Cowher. And it's a pretty cool one. Loved the guy myself. But, as I remember, it was Cowher/LeBeau's defense that Belichick exposed first. Spread that base 3-4 out and make them chase you all over the field.
Now, if we were living in an alternate universe, where the league sanctioned cheating Pats* weren't the dominant team of the era, Cowher wins a couple more. But, we aren't. And he wasn't getting past those cheating ******** any more than the other guy. jmho
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Yep. Dick got exposed.
 
I would say 4 more at least. Cowher did what he did with random QBs. Kordell or Neil being the best until Ben came. Ben was{is) a true franchise QB. in 3 years with Ben, Cowher went to an afc championship, won a super bowl and then 8-8.

Cowher should go down as the Best coach in our history. Noll had a franchise qb most of his time. same with Tomlin. Cowher did not. he had a franchise qb for 3 years
 
FSF said:
I can’t envision Cowher coaching nearly 3 decades so Ben & this defense is not relevant.

It’s not exactly easy to win the dang thing and fact is Tomlin got there twice with that core that began to age out in 2011. In that realistic timeframe max would have been 3 total


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That wouldve depended on whether Marvel Smith got injured. If not - more super bowls. :)
 
BLITZ said:
I would say 4 more at least. Cowher did what he did with random QBs. Kordell or Neil being the best until Ben came. Ben was{is) a true franchise QB. in 3 years with Ben, Cowher went to an afc championship, won a super bowl and then 8-8.

Cowher should go down as the Best coach in our history. Noll had a franchise qb most of his time. same with Tomlin. Cowher did not. he had a franchise qb for 3 years
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Point of fact, Cowher had 2 Big Ben seasons and a motorcycle-stunt crash test dummy.
 
They would have won ZERO more SBs with Cowher, because Tomlin has gotten the most that ANYONE possibly could have out of these Steelers teams EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

Can BC say he's never had a losing season in the NFL? I think not.
 
topseed said:
They would have won ZERO more SBs with Cowher, because Tomlin has gotten the most that ANYONE possibly could have out of these Steelers teams EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

Can BC say he's never had a losing season in the NFL? I think not.
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hahaha. While Cowher had his flaws his teams are prepared,played physically and at a championship level. We haven't looked like a champion in 12 years. We are really good at looking ahead,tic toc dances, end zone group pictures and looking like a team chasing its own tail. In essence the culture and mystique of the Steelers are gone. They're a mere shadown of their former selves.

That's my view.
 
Steelr4evr said:
hahaha. While Cowher had his flaws his teams are prepared,played physically and at a championship level. We haven't looked like a champion in 12 years. We are really good at looking ahead,tic toc dances, end zone group pictures and looking like a team chasing its own tail. In essence the culture and mystique of the Steelers are gone. They're a mere shadown of their former selves.

That's my view.
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I think this is very much a money post. There are certain franchises because of the mystic of their history will always be labeled physical and others fineness. I haven't found anything physical about this team since Lebeau left. In the sense that they have not had a particularly physical run game. They get sacks no doubt, but they never really line up in your face on defense and say you aren't getting **** all. They play off and prevent the big play. I've seen many games like take the Cincinnati debacle where I thought I could have DC'd the team to a win. ****** line up your best cover guy on their one big threat and destroy the run on the way to the QB. Tomlin and his stooge Butler are way too much into this we will be what we are and we can never allow a big one play TD. **** that. I'll trade a Long TD in a game for a QB never knowing where the pressure is coming from and several tackles for loss of the running back. If used properly, the Steelers DB's could have done major damage by allowing massive blitzes. Instead you had Fitzpatrick (who's all pro selection was laughable) in a neutered Tampa Two useless role.
 
Coryea said:
agreed, but Cowher seemed to have better X's and O's mind than Tomlin. I don't think we would've seen that drop off from the defense like we did from 11-18 because he rebuilt the roster and took those new rosters to AFCCG's.
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Agreed! Better strategic coach with the X and O's and definitely would not have seen the drop off with the defense we went through. I have always said that Cowher and Colbert worked much better together that Cool Shades and Colbert. Tomlin is arrogant, stubborn and realizes how comfortable a position he's in. Its always someone else's fault, players, coordinators but never Tomlin.

If indeed he called that horrible defense against the Browns having a LB cover Landry then that's all I need to know. Cowher had his faults but he did know how to make adjustments and he generally always beat the teams he was suppose to beat. With this guy its a crapshoot! I think with Cowher Ben would have been more successful and possibly could have a couple more trophies in the case maybe even nine.
 
steelhurt said:
Agreed! Better strategic coach with the X and O's and definitely would not have seen the drop off with the defense we went through. I have always said that Cowher and Colbert worked much better together that Cool Shades and Colbert. Tomlin is arrogant, stubborn and realizes how comfortable a position he's in. Its always someone else's fault, players, coordinators but never Tomlin.

If indeed he called that horrible defense against the Browns having a LB cover Landry then that's all I need to know. Cowher had his faults but he did know how to make adjustments and he generally always beat the teams he was suppose to beat. With this guy its a crapshoot! I think with Cowher Ben would have been more successful and possibly could have a couple more trophies in the case maybe even nine.
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Jesus people, a Linebacker covering a WR happens from time to time no matter how good a coach is. In that game the play calls on defense were totally handcuffed by playing a lot of people in positions they were not used to playing and or were new to the team. I am absolutely sure that isn't what they wanted but simply what the offensive formation, play call and motion forced them into. If it is true Tomlin has been calling defenses he has done a pretty good job of it over the year. That game was a train wreck but it was a slow culmination of a lot of different things not the least of which was injuries and covid. I am not sure some of the guys out there like the OLBs we had to play with Highsmith out and even our ILBs were up to speed on our whole package to be able to make much adjustments.
 
One maybe. Cowher had trouble hanging on to good OC's and still would have had to contend with Belicheat and Br*dy, LeBeau would still have been DC and gotten regularly ***-raped by the Pats******. ("Hey Dick, screw you and your 10 yard cushion, we're gonna throw 7 yard passes all day and there's nothing you can do about it.") The Steelers got to three Super Bowls in six years, one with Coach Chin and two with Coach Shades, but in none of those three appearances did they have to see the Pats****** in the playoffs. Neither Chin or Shades ever beat Belicheat and Br*dy in a game that mattered.
 
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Ron Burgundy said:
One maybe. Cowher had trouble hanging on to good OC's and still would have had to contend with Belicheat and Br*dy, LeBeau would still have been DC and gotten regularly ***-raped by the Pats******. ("Hey Dick, screw you and your 10 yard cushion, we're gonna throw 7 yard passes all day and there's nothing you can do about it.") The Steelers got to three Super Bowls in six years, one with Coach Chin and two with Coach Shades, but in none of those three appearances did they have to see the Pats****** in the playoffs. Neither Chin or Shades ever beat Belicheat and Br*dy in a game that mattered.
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Cowher beat Belichick in the divisional round of the 1994-95 playoffs.

edit: oh, nevermind, you said belichick AND brady
 
When comparing the two coaches I keep this statistical fact high, Cowher never went four years without a playoff victory..

That is Bill's ultimate edge over Tomlin IMO.
 
diver said:
Serious question.

Do you think Cowher would be as good a coach today with the dominance of social media like it is that was not around 15 years ago when he retired?

I thought the world of Cowher, but he has been out long enough now that he was coaching in a much different era. Hell, Tomlin when he began was coaching in a different era than he is now. I think back then you could hold a guys attention more than you can today. For example, I was disheartened when I heard Claypool praise JuJu for helping him develop his "brand." That's what he thought of. How the heck do you get through to guys with that kind of thinking? I know I couldn't do it. Cowher is older than me. I just wonder if he would struggle somewhat with todays player.

Moreover, I think he knows it, which is one of the reasons he has no desire to coach again.
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Cowher once said that if they lost that week he'd gas up his car late at night when no one would see him.
 
madinsomniac said:
He was too conservative... and he wasn’t a huge xs and os guy either... his philosophy was to outphysical a team... it failed miserably in the playoffs when you have physically talented equal teams...
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I remember the complaints about "Martyball", aka "turtleball", which will win games for you in the regular season but not so much in the playoffs when every team you see is good and you need to put up more points and not take your foot off the gas.
 
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Ron Burgundy said:
I remember the complaints about "Martyball", aka "turtleball", which will win games for you in the regular season but not so much in the playoffs when every team you see is good and you need to put up more points and not take your foot off the gas.
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Just spring boarding off your though here, not disputing what you said....The game has changed significantly since BC retired. Sure, he was a hard nosed physical brand of football kinda guy. Doesn't mean he would not have adapted as the league did. I have no doubt if he stayed, he would have continued to prioritize a certain physical brand. It is BC. But, I also believe he is a smart enough guy that he would have also adapted to more of a passing attack and coverage philosophies as the rules and teams allowed/dictated.
 
Hoot said:
Just spring boarding off your though here, not disputing what you said....The game has changed significantly since BC retired. Sure, he was a hard nosed physical brand of football kinda guy. Doesn't mean he would not have adapted as the league did. I have no doubt if he stayed, he would have continued to prioritize a certain physical brand. It is BC. But, I also believe he is a smart enough guy that he would have also adapted to more of a passing attack and coverage philosophies as the rules and teams allowed/dictated.
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Definately agree. Cowher, even in this era would command respect for the team and franchise which is something missing currently. He worked with big ego players and continually had to deal with new players which meant new ideas on how one should play / act.

Cowher was young enough and smart enough to figure out he had to move forward to keep up with the league. Things changed some in his time here as well. He was passing more with BEN and yet kept our "TOUGHNESS" front and center as well. Today, we are NOT tough.

As soon as Cowher got BEN, he won, 15-1 first season and SB 2nd.






Salute the nation
 
again. Cowher did not have a good QB until Ben. an Super bowl win and a AFC championship game appearance is pretty good in the 2 years Ben was healthy with Cowher. He got us into A super bowl with Neil O'Donnell He got us to afc Championship games with Kordell.

He would have won more than Tomlin has.
 
BLITZ said:
again. Cowher did not have a good QB until Ben. an Super bowl win and a AFC championship game appearance is pretty good in the 2 years Ben was healthy with Cowher. He got us into A super bowl with Neil O'Donnell He got us to afc Championship games with Kordell.

He would have won more than Tomlin has.
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Trying to think, how many head coaches:
1. made it to Super Bowls with different starting QB's. Cowher, Reid, Reeves, Shula.???
2. made it to conference title games with 3 different QB's. Cowher, Gibbs.???
 
Remeber one of those AFCCCG was against a pre-caught cheating ******* cheaters. A pretty good shot at a SB but stolen.




Salute the nation
 
Cowher was more flexible in his approach than he's given credit.

In 1995 with O'Donnell, they threw the ball all over the place, as well in 2002 and 2003 with Tommy Maddox, amid mixed results.

Cowher really wasn't afraid to open up the offense, if he had confidence in the QB, which would have made another 5-10 years with Roethlisberger interesting.

It's hard to say how many more Super Bowls they would have won, but the Steelers definitely would have been better and more consistent.

At the very least, they would not have had remotely near as many years of suspect OL and secondary play.
 
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we wouldnt have THIS defense.
 
Cowher without the personal life problems would have probably won at least 1-2 more. You can’t discount the personal stuff though, as it happened and he wasn’t going to be the coach. Given the reality of the situation, with the Rooney Rule as it is, I can’t imagine another plausible outcome for how the coaching decisions were handled back then. It would have taken a different owner to make a different outcome. There was no way to concretely know Mike Tomlin’s flaws as a head coach back then. My main reservations were his lack of overall coaching experience and a general lack of _quality_ experience. The selection was essentially a big gamble instead of a well reasoned pick, when you consider this is an organization widely recognized for being at the top. I think the early successes helped to bolster the selection, but by 2012 it was apparent to most that there were some fundamental issues that can’t easily be fixed. Many fans have made the move from hard core to casual over the past 8 years as the cycle has repeated.

To answer this question though, yes, I believe had a top tier coach at Cowher’s level or better would have produced more playoff and Super Bowl wins with the talent the front office has supplied over the past 14 years. This is simply based on better strategic game preparation and in game adjustments, even keeping player, time, and challenge management performance exactly the same.
 
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