• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

5 yr drafting status

Wait, that article says we're average at drafting the last 5 years?

Wait, aren't most here saying (and have said) the exact same thing since Tomlin became coach?

I don't see what the debate is about.

We're average. That's what we are. Just because Roethlisberger is the deodorant that covers that up sometimes doesn't make it any less true.
 
deljzc said:
Wait, that article says we're average at drafting the last 5 years?

Wait, aren't most here saying (and have said) the exact same thing since Tomlin became coach?

I don't see what the debate is about.

We're average. That's what we are. Just because Roethlisberger is the deodorant that covers that up sometimes doesn't make it any less true.
Click to expand...
Remember last year when Tomlin said "I'm an 8-8 coach and we're an 8-8 team" ?
I still think that's true but once in a while Roethlisberger manages to outscore enough opponents that they get above .500.
 
The problem is they have drafted few impact players. Here are the 1st rounders under Tomlin
Timmons
Mendenhall
Ziggy
Pouncey
Heyward
DeCastro
Jarvis
Shazier

When you look at that list, you see a range from below average starter to above average starter but no real impact player. Pouncey and Decsatro are above average but not dominant. Same for Timmons. Same for Heyward.

The only impact players drafted under Tomlin have been Woodley, Wallace, Antonio Brown, Le'Veon Bell. That's 4 guys in 8 years and Woodley and Wallace were not impact players for long. That's not enough.

Let's look at the previous 9 drafts under Cowher
Faneca - possible hall of famer
Troy Edwards - bust, Tom Donahoe debacle, should have been Javon Kearse
Plaxico - streaky but was an impact player
Hampton - best NT in the game for years
Kendall Simmons - mediocre starter
Polamalu - hall of famer
Big Ben - hall of famer
Heath Miller - pro bowl caliber player
Santonio - like Plaxico, a headcase but also an impact player

From those 8 drafts they also got Hines Ward, Joey Porter, Aaron Smith, Marvel Smith, Clark Haggans, Kendrell Bell, Brett Keisel, Ike Taylor.

That's 14 impact players in 9 drafts, not counting Edwards, Simmons, or Haggans as impact players, although Haggans was a good player.

When you look at that, the current problems are clear. Tomlin/Colbert keep hitting doubles and they need some Home Runs.
 
Vader said:
My issue is that Bryant has nothing to do with Archer. You could have drafted someone else and then had Bryant as well in the 4th. You are right that Archer appears to be a luxury pick. He was nowhere near the BPA on the board. And if he was the BPA on Tombert's board then that tells me all I need to know about their drafting ability.
Click to expand...

That nails it.
 
It would also help if the steelers did not thumb their noses at drafting CBs with a high pick. Look at last year. The draft was deep at CB. They had a bunch of them in for visits. They seemed to put a lot of work into assessing Dennard from Mich State but they passed on him in RD 1. Supposedly they loved Fuller and when he was gone, they weren't going to reach on another CB.

That's fine in theory but they seem fine with reaching on other positions, but when it comes to CB, they have the loftiest of standards. Or you hear them explain that the steelers don't need elite CBs for what their scheme asks of them. Maybe that was true years ago, but with how the NFL has changed the rules to favor the pass, you actually do need CBs with ball skills and not just guys who can tackle the catch.
 
madinsomniac said:
For the record I would never take a guard, Center, or RB in the top 10. o
Click to expand...

I would not rule out any position for the top ten. Dermonte Dawson depending on who else was on the board to pick from could be top ten, Alan Faneca could have been a top ten pick depending on who else was on the board, Jerome Bettis could also have been a top ten pick depending on who else was on the board. I suspect that if you had chosen one of them in the top ten it would have still graded out as a good pick down the road.
 
Wingman said:
I would not rule out any position for the top ten. Dermonte Dawson depending on who else was on the board to pick from could be top ten, Alan Faneca could have been a top ten pick depending on who else was on the board, Jerome Bettis could also have been a top ten pick depending on who else was on the board. I suspect that if you had chosen one of them in the top ten it would have still graded out as a good pick down the road.
Click to expand...
Bettis was a top 10 pick
 
swal75 said:
Bettis was a top 10 pick
Click to expand...

I didn't look but thought those three guys listed were playing the positions mentioned and worthy of the pick in the top ten. Thanks for the assist.
 
deljzc said:
Wait, that article says we're average at drafting the last 5 years?

Wait, aren't most here saying (and have said) the exact same thing since Tomlin became coach?

I don't see what the debate is about.

We're average. That's what we are. Just because Roethlisberger is the deodorant that covers that up sometimes doesn't make it any less true.
Click to expand...

Del, I started the thread because with all the talk on free agents the one thing I kept read was there were a lot of people who think our drafting has been bad. I was one of them people and I just wanted to see just how bad we were and come up with this. Your right we are average, very average but not as bad as I thought we were. The truth is picks like AB and Beachum have saved us from being a total bust.

There as been some good points brought up, I was very curious as to what a lot of people were thing about our drafting. I personally think when we miss on a pick we really miss hard and that has caused us major problems the last few years while guys like Troy, Farrior, Hampton, Ike, Clark, Smith, Keisal, Foote, Harrison, Ward and Miller all get older,leave or retire and we are not getting guys in to replace these guys.

We have had to many "wasted" picks where we take a chance and either the guy is a bust, don't make it thru camp or ends up on another roster - sometimes as a starter. Urbik - Shipley - Burnett - Gibson - K.Williams - Rainey - Ta'amu - Hawthorne.

Like you say this all ends up with us being an average team in the draft and we need more if we can't hit in free agency as well.
 
STEELERS R GR8 said:
Del, I started the thread because with all the talk on free agents the one thing I kept read was there were a lot of people who think our drafting has been bad. I was one of them people and I just wanted to see just how bad we were and come up with this. Your right we are average, very average but not as bad as I thought we were. The truth is picks like AB and Beachum have saved us from being a total bust.

There as been some good points brought up, I was very curious as to what a lot of people were thing about our drafting. I personally think when we miss on a pick we really miss hard and that has caused us major problems the last few years while guys like Troy, Farrior, Hampton, Ike, Clark, Smith, Keisal, Foote, Harrison, Ward and Miller all get older,leave or retire and we are not getting guys in to replace these guys.

We have had to many "wasted" picks where we take a chance and either the guy is a bust, don't make it thru camp or ends up on another roster - sometimes as a starter. Urbik - Shipley - Burnett - Gibson - K.Williams - Rainey - Ta'amu - Hawthorne.

Like you say this all ends up with us being an average team in the draft and we need more if we can't hit in free agency as well.
Click to expand...

While we miss on picks...ALL teams miss on picks. TMC did some research one time. In the first round alone there was a 33 percent bust rate I believe. As you went farther down in the rounds it just got worse.
 
It would be an improvement if 4 out of 7 picks were still in the league after three years, let alone on the team.
 
paperclip said:
I never cease to be amazed at the draft experts we have on this board.
Click to expand...

We're talking about an article that tried to analyze draft success based on pretty substantial, quantitative methods.

They call us "average" over the last 5 years and that passes the "eye" test as well (ask most laymen to just our last 5 draft's successes and contribution and you'll get "average" as the answer)?

How does that make those that are critical of this or acknowledge this "experts"?
 
Average will get you to 8 and 8. If our team is to get back to greatness it needs to find 3 or 4 good starters every year. That does not have to mean they start the first year just what they develop into. 10 years is a reasonable time to think you will likely have to replace 50 guys. 30 of them should be capable of starting, the other 20 can be role players developmental guys etc, some of which should turn into starter capable. If one can find a decent free agent each year that is starter capable and at a decent price that would be a huge help. As it stands now we are seeing what happens when the talent picked is not good enough to make the team or become starters. Toss in no free agents like Farrior for example and we have a roster that is in decline.

On a positive note Last year's draft may have generated the best one in quite a while. Tuitt looks to be a solid player and maybe more. Bryant looks like a solid player and maybe more. Shazier is unknown right now because of his injuries so could be good bad or indifferent. McCullers looks like he could become a good player as well and is a real value considering where he was selected. So looking at these four guys and nothing else it looks like two solid hits and two more that could be based on their physical traits. If this year all of these guys make big strides in development this has the makings of the best draft in a long time. The possibility of getting 3 good starters is very good and maybe a fourth is possible.

We just need to hit a couple more like the last one.
 
stillwright said:
While we miss on picks...ALL teams miss on picks. TMC did some research one time. In the first round alone there was a 33 percent bust rate I believe. As you went farther down in the rounds it just got worse.
Click to expand...

I remember when he did that wish he was here to pipe in on this subject now. Yeah I understand all teams miss but for some reason it feels when we miss now a days it is bad. IDK maybe it is just me but I am sure there are a lot of other factors like I listed before.
 
paperclip said:
I never cease to be amazed at the draft experts we have on this board.
Click to expand...

Yeah cause posting something from another website for us here to talk about makes up draft experts.....wtf???? I come here to talk Steeler football and yes I will give my opinion, but no that don't make me an expert or anyone else here. Come on man this is a message board what do you think happens, are you new to this or what? Great 32nd post by the way.......
 
On the bright side, for 2016, we can look forward to the FO ******* up a top 5 pick....
 
stillwright said:
Wait...are you talking about yourself or paperclip?
Click to expand...

I am a contributor with an up to date subscription. I just never whined about the tag.

You should stick to talking football........
 
The thing about the Steelers right now is MOST of what they do is average.

I think Tomlin coaches average. I think Colbert drafts average. I think our free agent hits/misses (for the money available) has been average. I think our cap management and contract decisions have been average.

Many here exasperate the average qualities of coach/GM and their decisions but that's because we're fans and expect and want so much more than that. And to many of us the answers/ways to avoid being average are self-apparent and easy to spot.

The argument against the loudest voices of displeasure is always "Who else is better?" and it's true when you are average that means you are better than about half the franchises in the league and their decisions on draft, free agency, coaching and cap management.

But I still expect more. I still think there is so much ineptitude around the league (mostly due to shortsightedness, stupidity, ***-covering and high job turnover) that to be average against THAT is much worse than being really, truly "average" (like being an average student or being an average equipment operator or being an average pilot).

To me if you are given the stability Tomlin and Colbert have been given (i.e. the YEARS to plan ahead and see your plans come to fruition) and are still AVERAGE against the NFL as a whole, then you are not really average at all but in fact doing a very below average job.

That is the crux of our organization right now. Given the power, monotony and length of their tenures is "average" really an acceptable result from Colbert and Tomlin?
 
Super Dave said:
I am a contributor with an up to date subscription. I just never whined about the tag.

You should stick to talking football........
Click to expand...

Lol. I used to be a contributer also until one of the owners saiid I could have my money back and they didnt need it after someone questioned the owner on a post he made to me after I questioned the owner on his post. So try following your own advice. Keep your posts to football.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top