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5 yr drafting status

I suppose it depends on your definition of average.

I can understand distain in the approach to free agency and the draft as of late, and I can agree that 2 8-8 seasons are indeed average. Though if you're taking the situation as a whole, in which you're arguing, then I have to counter with the steelers record being above average over 5 years and our offense being exceptional while improving incrementally over that time.

I can also play the devils advocate against myself and point to the incremental decline of the defense over the same period.

Perhaps that averages out...
 
deljzc nails it. This is not an organization that cans the GM after one bad draft or the HC after one bad year. But, keeping the math simple, in 8 years you have about 56 draft picks. Out of that, they should do better than finding about 5 decent defensive players (and that's counting Worilds as decent).

I don't expect them to win every game every year. I don't expect them to be in the Super Bowl every year. I DO expect them to be above .500 and in the playoffs every year. Every ******* year. I don't think that's unreasonable in a division with the Brown and Bengals. People can say the Pats** are in a suck-*** division, which is true, they have three other teams that mostly suck, but the Steelers don't have it a lot harder since they have one team that always sucks and another that sucks half the time. Even the Rats are iffy at this point, remember they were 8-8 too the year after they won the SB. IMO any record below 10-6 is inexcusable.
 
It's not just about record to me.

In my opinion, if you put average drafting and average coaching and average free agency and average cap management on ANY TEAM with Ben Roethlisberger as it's quarterback for 90-95% of their games, the team is going to win more than average.

In my opinion, that's what we've been since 2008. And our record of 60-36 (2-3 in playoffs) is completely the result of Roethlisberger and not much about Colbert, Tomlin, drafting, free agency or cap management.

Look, in 2006 I was as optimistic as anyone that this could be the start of something very, very special in Pittsburgh. Sure, the team had some older veterans. Sure there were holes that needed to be filled and work to be done to improve. But we had a freaking 23 year old franchise quarterback that already had 7 playoff games under his belt.

If anything, you can compare our 2004-2005 as what Seattle is doing right now with Russell Wilson (although I would argue Roethlisberger was a better talent than Russell Wilson). Just like us they found their quarterback and all of a sudden all the other good work they were doing on both sides of the ball suddenly blossomed into championship level football, that happened to us.

Wilson and Seattle have gone 11-5 (Divisional Round), 13-3 (Super Bowl win) and 12-4 (Super Bowl loss).

The Steelers went 15-1 (Championship Round), 11-5 (Super Bowl win), 8-8 (missed playoffs), 10-6 (wildcard loss), 12-4 (Super Bowl win)

Right now I would argue the Seahawks and their coach/management team is doing better than what we did. They are more consistently good so far in Wilson's tenure than we were in Roethlisberger's. Obviously it helps Wilson didn't go smash his face into a windshield or have a coach put him on a west coast trip a week after a concussion but it's still more than that and most here know it.

So the first question to me is if Seattle could have held it together, not got too high after their Super Bowl win and continued to stay very relevant, who's fault was it that we did not? Cowher/Colbert and the 2006 off-season? (I put a lot on that). Tomlin being hired? (looking more like that's part of the decline).

It remains to be seen what Seattle ends up doing in years 4-8 of Wilson's tenure. We ended up going Wildcard Loss - SB Win - No Playoffs - SB Loss - Wildcard Loss. What is "average" under these similar circumstances?
 
This thread has been an interesting read.

I do agree with the teams approach on free agency. Signing a big name FA is just as risky as drafting a big name. I'd rather take my chances with the draft. That being said, they need to do better in the draft. Yes, last years draft could possibly be a great one. Time will tell. I'm just puzzled at the approach this team has taken to shore up the defensive backfield. It's been going down hill for quite a while and not much has been done to improve it either via the draft OR free agency.

I have a lot of concerns about the depth at QB, TE and RB also. Bell's injury last year proved that at RB. The Williams pick up will/should help there. But we are one hit away from Gradkowsi and/or Jones being the starter. That's scary. Heath is awesome, but Spaeth is no where close to him in any aspect and there is no one else behind him that eases my concern at that position.

This is going to be an interesting and critical draft for us coming up. Let's just hope they don't take any pick the have for granted like they did last year in round 3.
 
stillwright said:
Lol. I used to be a contributer also until one of the owners saiid I could have my money back and they didnt need it after someone questioned the owner on a post he made to me after I questioned the owner on his post. So try following your own advice. Keep your posts to football.
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LOL....OK I will do that......
 
Cope said:
Tread lightly if you intend to deride all the people who choose to spend their money to keep this website running.
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Call all of them out...what one? REALLY? As said I use to pay. The owner said he didnt want my money.
 
stillwright said:
Call all of them out...what one? REALLY? As said I use to pay. The owner said he didnt want my money.
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I quoted your call out. The owner ain't here anymore. I'm sure they will gladly take your money.
 
Cope said:
I quoted your call out. The owner ain't here anymore. I'm sure they will gladly take your money.
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I realize you quoted my "call out". Go back and read everything. Not just my "call out".
 
I thought this was a draft thread not a call out thread, come on talk football........PM if you guys want to drag this on
 
hook said:
This thread has been an interesting read.

I do agree with the teams approach on free agency. Signing a big name FA is just as risky as drafting a big name. I'd rather take my chances with the draft. That being said, they need to do better in the draft. Yes, last years draft could possibly be a great one. Time will tell. I'm just puzzled at the approach this team has taken to shore up the defensive backfield. It's been going down hill for quite a while and not much has been done to improve it either via the draft OR free agency.

I have a lot of concerns about the depth at QB, TE and RB also. Bell's injury last year proved that at RB. The Williams pick up will/should help there. But we are one hit away from Gradkowsi and/or Jones being the starter. That's scary. Heath is awesome, but Spaeth is no where close to him in any aspect and there is no one else behind him that eases my concern at that position.

This is going to be an interesting and critical draft for us coming up. Let's just hope they don't take any pick the have for granted like they did last year in round 3.
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I will disagree a bit with your risk regarding a free agent and a draft pick. A free agent has already played in the nfl and has a record of what he has done against nfl level competition, which is much better than college. There are still some risks involved with someone else's cast offs but one can determine was this a cap cut, a cut from a team that is loaded at that position or some other reason this person is available.
 
The way I'm looking at the draft is that you need to get two valuable (ie. starting or major contributor within two years) assets per season. I don't think a person can linger on the where they were drafted part.
2014- Shazier, Tuitt Look like at least one of them will be a very good starter add in Bryant and you have almost two sure starting/ contributing talents. Maybe three (good draft)
2013- Jones, Bell, Wheton, Williams, Thomas. Lots of question marks here. If Bell stays out of trouble, stays healthy and signs a second contract here he is an absolute steal. He would be first round, probably upper first round on anyone's do over draft board. Jones looks like a bust, but with the low cost of recent first rounders you just have to look at it like we got Bell as a first rounder and Jones ia second round bust. Wheton and Williams look like good bacjkups with maybe one of them being a solid starter. Thomas???? On the surface it looks like a bad draft with the Jones bust, but could still go either way. Bell's career with the steelers will define it.
2012- Decastro, Adams, Spence, Beachum Decastro is a solid guard with pro bowl potential. Hard to be against Spence, but he is probably a good backup. Beechum could be the only saving grace of an otherwise poor draft.
2011- Cameron Heyward, Cortez Allen, Gilbert. Hard to see this one as anything but a disappointment. Heyward is a really good player, but the wait was long for him to get good and he goes through spells where he disappears. He isn't nearly enough to make up for the stench of the rest. I'm hoping Allen might get his confidence back and become serviceable. Worst draft of the period.
2010- Pouncey, Brown, Sanders, Worilds. Pouncey has received accolades, Brown is top three to five at his position, Brown and Sanders were sought after FA's. Hard to say much bad about that draft.
You would have to go through every single draft board, but my guess is the Steelers draft success over the past 5 years is about industry standard. They have produced about two starters to stars every year. They have misses in the top of the draft and big steals later on. Its about what you'd expect.
 
Every team has 22 starters. It doesn't make them good. The clowns have 22 most of which sucks.. especially on offense. Right now nobody knows about last year's draft yet. 2013 Jones looks horrible. Jury is still out on Wheaton, Williams and Thomas. Bell is a stud.

2012- Beachum and DeCastro are good but not great players. Adams is a clusterfuck and a waste of a 2nd round pick. Spence is always hurt but could be something.

2011- Heyward is average the rest of horrible.

2010- Pouncey is good. Brown is better.

The problem with the Steelers draft is they get good, average and ******* horrible players. They aren't getting any stud on defense. Heyward is good but still isn't a top DE. The rest are just average to horrible picks.
 
SteelerSask said:
The way I'm looking at the draft is that you need to get two valuable (ie. starting or major contributor within two years) assets per season. I don't think a person can linger on the where they were drafted part.
2014- Shazier, Tuitt Look like at least one of them will be a very good starter add in Bryant and you have almost two sure starting/ contributing talents. Maybe three (good draft)
2013- Jones, Bell, Wheton, Williams, Thomas. Lots of question marks here. If Bell stays out of trouble, stays healthy and signs a second contract here he is an absolute steal. He would be first round, probably upper first round on anyone's do over draft board. Jones looks like a bust, but with the low cost of recent first rounders you just have to look at it like we got Bell as a first rounder and Jones ia second round bust. Wheton and Williams look like good bacjkups with maybe one of them being a solid starter. Thomas???? On the surface it looks like a bad draft with the Jones bust, but could still go either way. Bell's career with the steelers will define it.
2012- Decastro, Adams, Spence, Beachum Decastro is a solid guard with pro bowl potential. Hard to be against Spence, but he is probably a good backup. Beechum could be the only saving grace of an otherwise poor draft.
2011- Cameron Heyward, Cortez Allen, Gilbert. Hard to see this one as anything but a disappointment. Heyward is a really good player, but the wait was long for him to get good and he goes through spells where he disappears. He isn't nearly enough to make up for the stench of the rest. I'm hoping Allen might get his confidence back and become serviceable. Worst draft of the period.
2010- Pouncey, Brown, Sanders, Worilds. Pouncey has received accolades, Brown is top three to five at his position, Brown and Sanders were sought after FA's. Hard to say much bad about that draft.
You would have to go through every single draft board, but my guess is the Steelers draft success over the past 5 years is about industry standard. They have produced about two starters to stars every year. They have misses in the top of the draft and big steals later on. Its about what you'd expect.
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There are some good points made. I will take a strong stance against 2013. Jarvis was a first round bust. That is just about a killer for the draft. Had they picked anyone else that turned out to be a good player it would have really changed the complexion of the draft for the team. Bell was a second rounder and a very good one, he is a terrific player. Wheaton and Williams may both turn out to be good players that have a role in the organization. Missing on Jones vs what could have been had instead is a huge disappointment.
 
But that is just a bad taste in your mouth because it could have been better. If either Williams or Wheton become solid starters, you still have an excellent/ star back and one good starter. And it isn't out of the question that Bell could become ok. I'm not holding my breath on that one though. Like I said, Bell is in the upper half of the first round of anyone's do over board. But you are right. If you take any of probably fifteen maybe 20-30 other guys besides Uncle Jarvis, you have a home run draft there.
 
SteelerSask said:
But that is just a bad taste in your mouth because it could have been better. If either Williams or Wheton become solid starters, you still have an excellent/ star back and one good starter. And it isn't out of the question that Bell could become ok. I'm not holding my breath on that one though. Like I said, Bell is in the upper half of the first round of anyone's do over board. But you are right. If you take any of probably fifteen maybe 20-30 other guys besides Uncle Jarvis, you have a home run draft there.
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We agree there this could have been a homerun type draft. Getting a star in the second and what could be a good starter and a role player later would make this a good draft, but as TMC said the bust rate for first rounders is 33%, that would indicate 67% are successful we should be doing better with first rounders.
 
I think there is a pretty good argument there that Jarvis Jones is the only bust in that group of 5: Shazier (though too early to say), Jones, Decastro, Heyward, Pouncey. That is only a 20% bust rate.
 
Our defensive efficiency rankings for the last 10 years are below. Can any of you math whizzes spot a trend?
2004 - 3
2005 - 3
2006 - 9
2007 - 3
2008 - 1
2009 - 9
2010 - 1
2011 - 13
2012 - 13
2013 - 23
2014 - 30
 
I think it was ridiculous and shameful to fire Leben with the collection of stiffs they saddled him with. You can't polish a turd. If there is no improvement this season it is on Tomlin. Smell ya later Mike.
 
fogdoctor said:
Our defensive efficiency rankings for the last 10 years are below. Can any of you math whizzes spot a trend?
2004 - 3
2005 - 3
2006 - 9
2007 - 3
2008 - 1
2009 - 9
2010 - 1
2011 - 13
2012 - 13
2013 - 23
2014 - 30
Click to expand...



The defense got bad when Woodley got fat and hurt all the time?
 
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fogdoctor said:
Our defensive efficiency rankings for the last 10 years are below. Can any of you math whizzes spot a trend?
2004 - 3
2005 - 3
2006 - 9
2007 - 3
2008 - 1
2009 - 9
2010 - 1
2011 - 13
2012 - 13
2013 - 23
2014 - 30
Click to expand...

Global warming.?
 
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