5 yr drafting status

[Punxsutawney]

There was nothing wrong with the DD pick. He fell because he's an OG not an OT. He's a solid RG and I have no problem with the pick.

The main issue with the Steelers is that even their "good" picks are just average players. You have to find a pro-bowler somewhere... especially on defense. Finding Brown late in the draft is a home run. But drafting players like Hood and Jones high is killing the team. Then you add to the fact that they can't find defensive players late (Richardson, Zumwalt, Fredrick, Carter ETC...) and you have a clusterfuck of a draft. And that doesn't even count the "WTF were they thinking picks" like Archer and L. Jones.

I think that is an accurate assessment.

Tombert has done pretty well in assessing offensive talent. In particular, they seem able to pull WRs out their ***** at will, reflected in Brown, Wallace, Sanders and Bryant being drafted in the 3rd round or later.

They haven't been anywhere near as astute on defensive talent. The defense's decline is attributable to the replacing of the likes of Keisel, Aaron Smith, Harrison and Woodley with the likes of Hood, Jones and Worilds.

 

[Steeltime]

Just because he was ranked high and fell doesn't make him a good pick. He fell for a reason.

You mean like these guys?

• Aaron Rodgers
• Dan Marino
• Dez Bryant
• Justin Houston
• Lesean McCoy
• Randy Moss
• Thurman Thomas

Like those guys, right?

 

[Vader]

It's definitely true that a decent draft and a great draft are separated by finding a star or two in the later rounds, but it isn't all that likely that you are going to find one consistently. You figure from each round after the 2nd there are probably only a couple "stars" in each of the following rounds...and 32 teams picking.

The Archer pick seems to have ruined last year's draft in some people's opinion but the fact that they seem to have found a "star" with their 4th Round pick more than makes up for it IMO. You are gonna have lots of misses in every draft, but you have to have "hits" to balance out the misses. To me, last year's draft all hinges on Shazier right now. I think Tuitt is going to be a really nice player. Bryant looks great so far. If Shazier becomes a good player and you get 3 good players from the 2014 draft, it's a win.

The people who expect the Steelers to get excellent players and starters on 5 out of 7 or 6 out of 7 every year are living in fantasy land. No team does that. But you want to get guys that can at least contribute in some way, whether it is holding a reserve spot or special teams or whatever. But you are always going to have 1 or 2 that wash out immediately and never make the roster. That's the nature of the beast around the league.

Nobody is expecting that. I haven't see that once on this board. If you have please post it. That's nothing more than a strawman.

My point was that in 8 drafts you have got to find pro-bowl quality on defense sometime. You can't win in the NFL with just average players. I know the cheating pats** win without great defensive players. Even though Revis made the defense respectable this year. Almost all the teams in the playoffs have very good defensive players: Rats, Seattle, Broncos, Cards, Lions ETC...

This defense isn't even average. They were horrible in many areas. 23rd in TOs, 27th in passing yards, 28th in passing TDs, 25th in ints, 29th in yards per pass, 25th in rushing yards per attempt, 23rd in TO%, 29th in net yards per drive, 25th in average points per drive. They need more talent. And drafting is a huge issue with the defense. 8 years and no dominant player on defense.

 

[Punxsutawney]

It's definitely true that a decent draft and a great draft are separated by finding a star or two in the later rounds, but it isn't all that likely that you are going to find one every draft. You figure from each round after the 2nd there are probably only a couple "stars" that come out of each of the following rounds...and 32 teams picking.

The Archer pick seems to have ruined last year's draft in some people's opinion but the fact that they seem to have found a "star" with their 4th Round pick more than makes up for it IMO. You are gonna have lots of misses in every draft, but you have to have "hits" to balance out the misses. To me, last year's draft all hinges on Shazier right now. I think Tuitt is going to be a really nice player. Bryant looks great so far. If Shazier becomes a really good player and you get 3 good players with star potential from the 2014 draft, it's a win.

The people who expect the Steelers to get excellent players and starters on 5 out of 7 or 6 out of 7 every year are living in fantasy land. No team does that. But you want to get guys that can at least contribute in some way, whether it is holding a reserve spot or special teams or whatever. But you are always going to have 1 or 2 that wash out immediately and never make the roster. That's the nature of the beast around the league.

The problem with the Archer pick was that it never had much of a chance of success given the player's physical limitations and one dimensional skill set. It may have been worth the gamble for a more complete team, but the Steelers had too many needs else where.

Landing Bryant compensates somewhat, but Archer wasn't even an attempt to address a need.

 

[Vader]

The problem with the Archer pick was that it never had much of a chance of success given the player's physical limitations and one dimensional skill set. It may have been worth the gamble for a more complete team, but the Steelers had too many needs else where.

Landing Bryant compensates somewhat, but Archer wasn't even an attempt to address a need.

My issue is that Bryant has nothing to do with Archer. You could have drafted someone else and then had Bryant as well in the 4th. You are right that Archer appears to be a luxury pick. He was nowhere near the BPA on the board. And if he was the BPA on Tombert's board then that tells me all I need to know about their drafting ability.

 

[Supersteeler]

The problem with the Archer pick was that it never had much of a chance of success given the player's physical limitations and one dimensional skill set. It may have been worth the gamble for a more complete team, but the Steelers had too many needs else where.

Landing Bryant compensates somewhat, but Archer wasn't even an attempt to address a need.

I 'm sure they saw him as a Darren Sproles type that could compliment the offense in certain situations and mostly likely to be a KR/PR. If he turned into that guy I don't know how anyone would have a problem with taking that in the 3rd Round, where the chances of getting any impact player are about 50/50. However, the fact that his play hasn't resembled that so far, especially in the return game, is where the problem is no doubt.

 

[Supersteeler]

My issue is that Bryant has nothing to do with Archer. You could have drafted someone else and then had Bryant as well in the 4th. You are right that Archer appears to be a luxury pick. He was nowhere near the BPA on the board. And if he was the BPA on Tombert's board then that tells me all I need to know about their drafting ability.

So you're saying you don't think there have been times they have also gotten a very good player because they took the guy that was #1 on their board even when he wasn't #1 on Kiper, Mayock, or your board? I highly doubt that is the case. Those guys aren't perfect and their boards aren't any more definitive than NFL GM's boards.

 

[Vader]

So you're saying you don't think there have been times they have also gotten a very good player because they took the guy that was #1 on their board even when he wasn't #1 on Kiper, Mayock, or your board? I highly doubt that is the case. Those guys aren't perfect and their boards aren't any more definitive than NFL GM's boards.

I never said anything about Kiper, Mayock or my board. Did I? Didn't those guys have Archer as a 3rd round pick? So maybe they are listening to them?

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Looking at a draft in hindsight isn't even a perfect science. It's even less so in real time. What would be interesting is to see all those who are, or represent themselves to be, SteelerNation draft gurus put together their own Draft Value Boards for the Steelers for this year's draft and post them. Then we could see whose board most accurately reflects the picks the Steelers make and also track play, etc. of the players they would have had rated higher than our actual picks.

 

[STEELERS R GR8]

There was nothing wrong with the DD pick. He fell because he's an OG not an OT. He's a solid RG and I have no problem with the pick.

The main issue with the Steelers is that even their "good" picks are just average players. You have to find a pro-bowler somewhere... especially on defense. Finding Brown late in the draft is a home run. But drafting players like Hood and Jones high is killing the team. Then you add to the fact that they can't find defensive players late (Richardson, Zumwalt, Fredrick, Carter ETC...) and you have a clusterfuck of a draft. And that doesn't even count the "WTF were they thinking picks" like Archer and L. Jones.

Nice post Vader and all great points, I was very interested to see what your thoughts were on this article.

 

[madinsomniac]

Lindy's sport gave our 5 year average a solid C+. The issue really has become that there is a perforation of draft intel these days, couple that with the new CBA making it easier to lose young free agents that overproduce and the Steelers older philosophies that worked so well for so long have pretty much either been copied to the extent that it isn't an advantage anymore or neutered by the league that doesn't want great teams but rather a league full of ok ones....

 

[Joey Porters Taint]

I wouldn't give up on Zumwalt too fast. He was balling before he got hurt.

 

[steelerscotty]

So DeCastro isnt (yet) an allpro, and this makes him a bust. Yet many fans think Pouncey is overrated, yet he has been recognized with all pro and pro bowl awards every year except his injury year.

There are some people, I guess, who won't like a pick no matter what that pick accomplishes, just because they didnt like the pick on draft day. Timmons is another example.

 

[Joey Porters Taint]

Decastro was supposed to be a top 10 pick. He hasn't done squat except for the bengals game. Zummy got injured early and was a late round pick so.....

 

[stillwright]

Decastro was supposed to be a top 10 pick. He hasn't done squat except for the bengals game. Zummy got injured early and was a late round pick so.....

Can you name one guard EVER drafted in the top 10?

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Can you name one guard EVER drafted in the top 10?

Cooper by Arizona (#7) and Warmack by Titans (10) in 2013. Although iirmc Warmack was thought to be a tackle prospect.

 

[stillwright]

Thanks. Not many I see. Cooper isn't even starting is he? Fact is guards are not top 10 picks.

 

[Supersteeler]

I never said anything about Kiper, Mayock or my board. Did I? Didn't those guys have Archer as a 3rd round pick? So maybe they are listening to them?

Ok so help me out then. Whose board are you referring to that trumps Tombert's if it isn't yours or the talking heads? You refer to them ignoring BPA on the "board" and going off on their own sometimes in cases like Archer. That may be so, but I'm wondering whose "board" is the correct one that you refer to. Sure sounds like you think somebody has a definitive BPA board that Tombert should be following but aren't, I'm curious.

 

[Vader]

Ok so help me out then. Whose board are you referring to that trumps Tombert's if it isn't yours or the talking heads? You refer to them ignoring BPA on the "board" and going off on their own sometimes in cases like Archer. That may be so, but I'm wondering whose "board" is the correct one that you refer to. Sure sounds like you think somebody has a definitive BPA board that Tombert should be following but aren't, I'm curious.

I never said anything about anyone's board but the Steelers board. Not sure why you are so interested in other's boards. What difference does it make? I never mentioned them going off on their own. You keep trying to put words into my mouth. Almost everything you said I never even discussed. IF the Steelers board had Archer as the BPA last year then that tells me a lot about why they struggle in the draft. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[madinsomniac]

Can you name one guard EVER drafted in the top 10?

It happens... 4 or 5 times a guard has been the #2 overall pick... Fralic did i think, and IIRC the year before or after him another guard went #2... not sure one ever went #1, at least not in the superbowl era

 

[Troglodyte]

I have a problem with them taking guys that fall to them like decastro. Just because he was ranked high and fell doesn't make him a good pick. He fell for a reason. But yes if your gonna build through the draft you better be good at it.

DeCastro fell because he's a guard. Any NFL team needs to be good at drafting. Nobody builds a winner exclusively or even primarily through free agency.

 

[stillwright]

It happens... 4 or 5 times a guard has been the #2 overall pick... Fralic did i think, and IIRC the year before or after him another guard went #2... not sure one ever went #1, at least not in the superbowl era

Guard ...really? Didn't know that. Thanks for the info.

 

[Supersteeler]

My issue is that Bryant has nothing to do with Archer. You could have drafted someone else and then had Bryant as well in the 4th. You are right that Archer appears to be a luxury pick. He was nowhere near the BPA on the board.

You said this. I was just asking whose board is the definitive board to where you know when the Steelers differ from "The Board" you reference and don't follow it when it comes to BPA. It's a very straight forward question. Not sure where you're confusion comes from. You said that neither your board or the talking heads board is the definitive "Board". And obviously Tombert's is not it either. Who does that leave as having the definitive board in your opinion?

 

[stuntmanmike]

I don't just thinks it just who we draft but how we draft also. It doesnt hurt to trade aways picks like those used to draft Ziggy hood and stock up picks for other years. We need good draft picks more than anyone so we need to be able to get "our" guy whoever that is. I remember the jets trading over us to get an awesome db from right here in our own back yard. We totally need to get wiser and Tomlin needs to quit drinking his own cool aid when it come to player evaluations. Geez Talk about success, even someone's elses, going to your head.

 

[Vader]

You said this. I was just asking whose board is the definitive board to where you know when the Steelers differ from "The Board" you reference and don't follow it when it comes to BPA. It's a very straight forward question. Not sure where you're confusion comes from. You said that neither your board or the talking heads board is the definitive "Board". And obviously Tombert's is not it either. Who does that leave as having the definitive board in your opinion?

It was my opinion. I don't put together an entire draft board. I don't have time to do that anymore. I was speaking of the draft in general not any specific board.