• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Covid Vaccine

Why are so many countries taking the position of refusing to vaccinate their young because their national policy is that the risk outweighs the benefit?
So many? Of the ones with an abundance of vaccines, isn’t it a few? One reason the UK is doing it is because they can better afford to as their vaccination rate is well ahead of ours.
 
You've done exactly what you accuse Steelworth of doing.

EDIT: (sorry I just got through you two arguing until 3 am and saw this point was beaten till the horse was dead 4 times)

Yeah it was beaten 4 times over but when someone looks up my former boss on the ******* internet and tells me what he is/does, that's a little batshit crazy.
 
Well considering delta arrived pre-vaccine, and the fact that severe illness and death are much more common in the unvaccinated (according to all US data anyway) it doesn't really support his suggestion that vaccines might be making the virus worse. I think most virologists would tell you that unchecked rapid spread of a virus is likely to result in variants occurring. But as has been pointed out I'm not personally in the business.

No one argues unchecked spread leads to variants. But it isn't the only cause. Vaccines that allow a virus to spread also do.
 
So many? Of the ones with an abundance of vaccines, isn’t it a few? One reason the UK is doing it is because they can better afford to as their vaccination rate is well ahead of ours.

Keep banging that drum to do it and ignore data like this from Johns Hopkins. Not one healthy kid has died of COVID. Not one.


Returning to the discussion of the COVID-19 risk to kids (ages 0 to 12 years) right now, it's worth aggregating the best available data to date. In reviewing the medical literature and news reports, and in talking to pediatricians across the country, I am not aware of a single healthy child in the U.S. who has died of COVID-19 to date. To investigate further, my research team at Johns Hopkins partnered with FAIR health to study pediatric COVID-19 deaths using approximately half of the nation's health insurance data. We found that 100% of pediatric COVID-19 deaths were in children with a pre-existing condition, solidifying the case to vaccinate any child with a comorbidity.

Given that the risk of a healthy child dying is between zero and infinitesimally rare, it's understandable that many parents are appropriately asking, why vaccinate healthy kids at all?

-----------

Yeah, just a few. In Europe alone, 17 countries are not vaccinating kids, 16 are. Just..a...few.


Sixteen countries, including France and Italy, are now vaccinating children above the age of 12 or plan to do so; while 17 countries have decided against, or will only jab teenagers, if they have serious underlying health conditions.

Another four countries remain undecided.
 
No one argues unchecked spread leads to variants. But it isn't the only cause. Vaccines that allow a virus to spread also do.

I've looked and only seen evidence of this happening in chicken vaccines so far, no data that shows it happening in human vaccines. I'd like to read about it if you have a source.
 
Keep banging that drum to do it and ignore data like this from Johns Hopkins. Not one healthy kid has died of COVID. Not one.


Returning to the discussion of the COVID-19 risk to kids (ages 0 to 12 years) right now, it's worth aggregating the best available data to date. In reviewing the medical literature and news reports, and in talking to pediatricians across the country, I am not aware of a single healthy child in the U.S. who has died of COVID-19 to date. To investigate further, my research team at Johns Hopkins partnered with FAIR health to study pediatric COVID-19 deaths using approximately half of the nation's health insurance data. We found that 100% of pediatric COVID-19 deaths were in children with a pre-existing condition, solidifying the case to vaccinate any child with a comorbidity.

Given that the risk of a healthy child dying is between zero and infinitesimally rare, it's understandable that many parents are appropriately asking, why vaccinate healthy kids at all?

-----------

Yeah, just a few. In Europe alone, 17 countries are not vaccinating kids, 16 are. Just..a...few.


Sixteen countries, including France and Italy, are now vaccinating children above the age of 12 or plan to do so; while 17 countries have decided against, or will only jab teenagers, if they have serious underlying health conditions.

Another four countries remain undecided.
So the vaccine is dangerous to kids without any underlying health conditions, but NOT dangerous for kids WiTH underlying health conditions?

If the rationale is based on the risk the vaccine poses, WHY are they vaccinating kids with underlying health conditions?
 
The Vaers data I’ve seen is for ALL ages. Making your own assumptions and inferences is not providing facts or sources of QUALIFIED opinion. You and Tim are delusional.
DId you read a ******* word I wrote or did you skim and assume? Ignore the VAERS data it isn't firm data and I have acknowledged that over and over. You lump me in with Tim, no offense Tim, when I am not arguing the validity of his point just trying to get you to even understand his point.

Even without VAERS data there is no statistically relevant data to pint to the need for vaccinations of those under 18 or anyone who has already had the virus. None. It is pure political fear mongering nonsense and contributes no meaningful benefit to those subsets and has the potential to be harmful to them particularly younger males. I won't argue the validity of the vaccines for older Americans even if it less than perfect but you can't even try to grasp the point being made.
 
No one argues unchecked spread leads to variants. But it isn't the only cause. Vaccines that allow a virus to spread also do.
Yes… it was one of the pre release concerns over the mRna stuff…for pfizer at least they didn’t include all three aspects of tge virus that data showed tgey had to… this probably is leading to the slow antibody response to the variants and the actual transmissibility after vaccination that tge cdc is worried about

in agriculture there is a chicken virus that they released that is not fully effective… it reduced deaths in the chickens that have the vaccine but they basically never beat the virus once they have it and become superspreaders… and the vaccine spawned version ended up being extra deadly to the unvaccinated… basically a death sentence….

it was banned in some countries cause they are paranoid about it leaping to humans… but used elsewhere… and now when an outbreak happens they have to kill all the stock rather than lose a small percentage to the virus like tgey did before the vaccine

These things happen… its why there are literally thousands of failed vaccines that were never permitted to be released…

this isnt a political conspiracy… its just basic reality that when you are chemically altering a body, there are a lot of variables that can cause drastic and dramatic bad consequences that even the brightest scientists cannot predict until they see long term data
 
Yeah it was beaten 4 times over but when someone looks up my former boss on the ******* internet and tells me what he is/does, that's a little batshit crazy.

You told me to look him up. I was just reading what it said.
 
So the vaccine is dangerous to kids without any underlying health conditions, but NOT dangerous for kids WiTH underlying health conditions?

If the rationale is based on the risk the vaccine poses, WHY are they vaccinating kids with underlying health conditions?
I would expect it is because underlying conditions greatly increase your risk from covid. Now I still think it is unnecessary statistically but at least there is some logic to the reasoning.

I did some research for both you and Tim. VAERS reports for 17 and under show 20 deaths "reported" to date and 1001 Deaths, hospitalizations and serious adverse reactions.
Feel free to use or misuse the data however you choose.
 
Anyway I'm off to brave the ****** *** Eagles fans and boiling hot weather at the game tonight. Wish me luck!

Have a good night everybody.
You have a greater chance of dying from going to this game by far than Covid, good luck. I wouldn't want to smell those fans in this weather.
 
I've looked and only seen evidence of this happening in chicken vaccines so far, no data that shows it happening in human vaccines. I'd like to read about it if you have a source.

Correct. The meres virus I believe it is called. Those studies have led some to believe it would eventually happen in humans. No proof yet. Couple leaky vaccines with what Dr. Dan from Indiana said about antibody mediated viral enhancement, which he says "is" happening now.

I'm going on logic here coupled with past readings on virus mutations, books like The Hot Zone. If you stop a virus from spreading, it won't have a host. Without a host, it goes dormant and becomes inactive. Viruses that spread mutate.

So, even if we vaccinate 100% of people, but the virus still spreads host to host, it will/should mutate. Wish we had an epidemiologist on staff here to clarify.
 
So the vaccine is dangerous to kids without any underlying health conditions, but NOT dangerous for kids WiTH underlying health conditions?

It's one of the reasons I log in every day, to see how you are gonna outdo yourself. You just did again. Good Lord, you don't get medicine at all.

You don't give experimental chemotherapy to a patient that doesn't have cancer. But you do give it to someone who's at risk of dying.

Kids with underlying health conditions, like any human with underlying health conditions, should in most cases take the vax to protect them from Covid. Kids that are healthy? Ain't a damned reason, the risks outweigh the benefits, because they are immune to covid.
 
DId you read a ******* word I wrote or did you skim and assume? Ignore the VAERS data it isn't firm data and I have acknowledged that over and over. You lump me in with Tim, no offense Tim, when I am not arguing the validity of his point just trying to get you to even understand his point.

Even without VAERS data there is no statistically relevant data to pint to the need for vaccinations of those under 18 or anyone who has already had the virus. None. It is pure political fear mongering nonsense and contributes no meaningful benefit to those subsets and has the potential to be harmful to them particularly younger males. I won't argue the validity of the vaccines for older Americans even if it less than perfect but you can't even try to grasp the point being made.
My daughter’s under 18 friend got Covid last summer and ended up hospitalized with a leaky heart valve. On behalf of her family and others, I extend a “**** your ignorant self and the horse you rode in on!”
 
It's one of the reasons I log in every day, to see how you are gonna outdo yourself. You just did again. Good Lord, you don't get medicine at all.

You don't give experimental chemotherapy to a patient that doesn't have cancer. But you do give it to someone who's at risk of dying.

Kids with underlying health conditions, like any human with underlying health conditions, should in most cases take the vax to protect them from Covid. Kids that are healthy? Ain't a damned reason, the risks outweigh the benefits, because they are immune to covid.
You’re comparing chemotherapy to a vaccine and I’M the one who doesn’t understand medicine?
 
I would expect it is because underlying conditions greatly increase your risk from covid. Now I still think it is unnecessary statistically but at least there is some logic to the reasoning.

I did some research for both you and Tim. VAERS reports for 17 and under show 20 deaths "reported" to date and 1001 Deaths, hospitalizations and serious adverse reactions.
Feel free to use or misuse the data however you choose.
So way less have died after getting the vaccine vs getting Covid, and way more have received the vaccine than got Covid? What’s the problem?
 
I am making Philly cheesesteaks for the game. what makes them so good is I made a prime rib loin last night and cut the left overs into sandwich meat. grilled onions, fresh mushrooms. and the bread has to be quality. do NOT go cheap on the bread!
 
To the point that the CDC has lost so much credibility. "While" Ron Desantis and the President were "arguing" over COVID, the CDC "by error of course" misapplies the case totals.

Of course, just another error. Like the VAERS database error. Like so many other errors.

 
You’re comparing chemotherapy to a vaccine and I’M the one who doesn’t understand medicine?

When the vaccines were rolled out, they were done so in tiers in most states. In my state, it was the most at risk that got it first, including the elderly, then essential workers, then others with comorbidities, then the general population.

They gave...the vaccines...to the most vulnerable...first. Why?

To protect them. Kids with comorbidities should get the vaccines. The rest, no. It's reckless and unwarranted.
 
I am making Philly cheesesteaks for the game. what makes them so good is I made a prime rib loin last night and cut the left overs into sandwich meat. grilled onions, fresh mushrooms. and the bread has to be quality. do NOT go cheap on the bread!

Real Philly cheesesteak uses Cheese Whiz. The bread is important. For any loose meat sandwich it has to be soft or the meat will squeeze out the sides when you bite it, unless you dig a trench.
 
Top