But yeah - It's not Tomlin's fault

[slashsteel]

Steelers opponents are averaging over 40 points in their last three playoff games, and we had the 2018 late season collapse sandwiched in there.

By keeping Tomlin, Art II obviously doesn't about winning championships, so why should we continue to care about the Steelers?

I call it an addiction. Those are hard to break.

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[Punxsutawney]

One more thing on adjustments...if the game plan stinks to begin with, how do you adjust it? You can't shine a turd.

I don't know. How about call different plays?

Claiming the concept of making adjustments doesn't really exist is one of the more curious things I've ever read here.

I mean, Tomlin might not do that, but good coaches do.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I don't know if I am buying. If you don't have a balanced offense teams can zero in on you. Easier to defend. Sure this is a passing league but in December/Jan you still have to be run capable. Can you win it all lopsided? Sure. But perhaps not the norm. As your odds are against it. You better have a coach that can x and o the hell out of the offense and defense. In other words Steelers have to be able to run the ball effectively.

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I'm not saying the running game isn't important, just that the RB position is overrated and maybe always has been.

A good running game is much more a product of scheme and blocking, though a great runner can add extra juice to an offense.

Look at the 2001 season under Cowher, Bettis started out great, got hurt, with the running game not missing a beat with Zereoue and Fu filling in.

 

[diver]

I don't know. How about call different plays?

Claiming the concept of making adjustments doesn't really exist is one of the more curious things I've ever read here.

I mean, Tomlin might not do that, but good coaches do.

I will refer to Chuck Noll. In the book "Three Bricks Shy of a Load" at one point he says that adjustments are more about one team playing better. Noll was a coach who didn't overstate his own importance. I do believe the adjustments thing ha taken a life of it's own to make coaches appear smart and football to appear like rocket science. It isn't. All the adjustments in the world won't do **** if the player you are counting on doesn't beat the other player. That is just a fact. Noll knew that.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I will refer to Chuck Noll. In the book "Three Bricks Shy of a Load" at one point he says that adjustments are more about one team playing better. Noll was a coach who didn't overstate his own importance. I do believe the adjustments thing ha taken a life of it's own to make coaches appear smart and football to appear like rocket science. It isn't. All the adjustments in the world won't do **** if the player you are counting on doesn't beat the other player. That is just a fact. Noll knew that.

Noll also coached at a time when playbooks were much smaller and there was less complexity to defensive and offensive schemes.

In the 1980s, when the likes of the west coast and run and shoot offenses and zone blitz defenses began taking hold, Noll did not fare as well.

Obviously, players have to execute, but it is up to coaches to put then into the best position to succeed based on their strengths and weaknesses and what the opponent shows.

 

[Stainless]

I'm starting to think that Mike may simply not enjoy working over MLK Day weekend. Maybe he prefers to spend this time with friends and family, BBQing in the garage, working on whatever hobbies he holds dear and then kicking back with a cold beer to watch some football.

 

[diver]

Noll also coached at a time when playbooks were much smaller and there was less complexity to defensive and offensive schemes.

In the 1980s, when the likes of the west coast and run and shoot offenses and zone blitz defenses began taking hold, Noll did not fare as well.

Obviously, players have to execute, but it is up to coaches to put then into the best position to succeed based on their strengths and weaknesses and what the opponent shows.

I think a more accurate criticism of Tomlin would be in roster construction. Adjustments, whether or not they are done, is pure speculation on our part. But roster construction we can see.

What I mean is some are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Against the Bills, Diggs was beating Sutton. They were also hitting the backs, beating LBs. What are you going to do? Put DBs on the backs? That would leave LBs on Diggs, perhaps. The same thing Tomlin is being ripped for against the Browns, leaving Spillane on Landry. There is only so many adjustments that can be made. Maybe the players can't do what is being asked.

Anyway, I would criticize Tomlin for even starting Spillane, who was probably out of sync from the time off. Maybe they should do a better job of player evaluation and get players who can handle the things they are asking them to do. That to me is more valid than some speculation about adjustments..

 

[Stainless]

Hey Mike, your Steelers have just cut the lead to 13 late in the 3rd quarter. Should you go for two or kick the extra point? FYI, this will be on the final.

 

[Steel G]

Hey Mike, your Steelers have just cut the lead to 13 late in the 3rd quarter. Should you go for two or kick the extra point? FYI, this will be on the final.

Which reminds, I hated the complete lack of imagination on the 2 pt plays. No movement, no Dobbs, nothing. Just Ben throwing too high to guys that are covered.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

The MT nut-huggers are out in full force on FB and talk radio with their annual "Well who would you replace him with then?", except this year they're getting dozens of legitimate answers. It's great fun to watch. I answered Eric Bieniemy or Duce Staley and they can't call me a racist.

Although they won't fire Shades so I know it's a pointless discussion.

 

[Stainless]

Which reminds, I hated the complete lack of imagination on the 2 pt plays. No movement, no Dobbs, nothing. Just Ben throwing too high to guys that are covered.

Yeah, you would think we could have come up with something better. I don't recall the attempts that failed even flirting with success.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I think a more accurate criticism of Tomlin would be in roster construction. Adjustments, whether or not they are done, is pure speculation on our part. But roster construction we can see.

What I mean is some are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Against the Bills, Diggs was beating Sutton. They were also hitting the backs, beating LBs. What are you going to do? Put DBs on the backs? That would leave LBs on Diggs, perhaps. The same thing Tomlin is being ripped for against the Browns, leaving Spillane on Landry. There is only so many adjustments that can be made. Maybe the players can't do what is being asked.

Anyway, I would criticize Tomlin for even starting Spillane, who was probably out of sync from the time off. Maybe they should do a better job of player evaluation and get players who can handle the things they are asking them to do. That to me is more valid than some speculation about adjustments..

Oh, I criticize the roster construction under Tomlin as well, as the Steelers have not been able to draft and develop defensive backs to save their lives under him, among other things.

However, the issues with him run deeper.

A team does not get dominated in three consecutive playoff games, two of which they were heavily favored to win, unless there are serious flaws in how the team is being prepared and directed. Sorry, it just doesn't happen.

There is also the issue of the team collapsing at the end of the seasons three straight years now. It strongly reflects teams eventually adjusting to the Steelers and them not be able to counter it.

It's coaching. Plain and simple, and I've just had enough of Tomlin. I just do not understand what rationale can be applied to keeping him around anymore.

The 1980s are widely considered dark times for the Steelers franchise, yet the last 10 years have basically mirrored that in terms of post season success.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Noll also coached at a time when playbooks were much smaller and there was less complexity to defensive and offensive schemes.

In the 1980s, when the likes of the west coast and run and shoot offenses and zone blitz defenses began taking hold, Noll did not fare as well.

Obviously, players have to execute, but it is up to coaches to put then into the best position to succeed based on their strengths and weaknesses and what the opponent shows.

Noll and the Steelers were the last team in the NFL to create a specials teams coach position as I recall.

Very likely Tomlin was the last team to hire or incorporate some kind of challenges advisor although it's possible Tomlin is still flubbing that all on his own.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Oh, I criticize the roster construction under Tomlin as well, as the Steelers have not been able to draft and develop defensive backs to save their lives under him, among other things.

However, the issues with him run deeper.

A team does not get dominated in three consecutive playoff games, two of which they were heavily favored to win, unless there are serious flaws in how the team is being prepared and directed. Sorry, it just doesn't happen.

There is also the issue of the team collapsing at the end of the seasons three straight years now. It strongly reflects teams eventually adjusting to the Steelers and them not be able to counter it.

It's coaching. Plain and simple, and I've just had enough of Tomlin. I just do not understand what rationale can be applied to keeping him around anymore.

The 1980s are widely considered dark times for the Steelers franchise, yet the last 10 years have basically mirrored that in terms of post season success.

And Noll way overachieved in winning playoff game in Mile High in 1984 and in Houston in 1989. Had no business winning either.

Also beat ultimately 18-1 SF in '84 and led Miami 14-7 in Orange Bowl in 2nd quarter in AFFCG that year.

Tomlin underachieves. And some are now saying he deserves to rebuild with his own QB after 14 seasons. Same thing they were saying 10 years ago with deserving to build his own defense.

 

[SojournerSteel]

The MT nut-huggers are out in full force on FB and talk radio with their annual "Well who would you replace him with then?", except this year they're getting dozens of legitimate answers. It's great fun to watch. I answered Eric Bieniemy or Duce Staley and they can't call me a racist.

Although they won't fire Shades so I know it's a pointless discussion.

Don't you just detest that question/argument from the lemmings? I mean, who were we going to replace Chuck Noll and Bill Cowher with?

It's like they defend the status quo to the death by saying "I trust the Rooneys" but obviously they don't trust the Rooneys to find the next Chuck Noll, Bill Cowher, or even Shades.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

It's coaching. Plain and simple, and I've just had enough of Tomlin. I just do not understand what rationale can be applied to keeping him around anymore.

Never a losing season. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Although when you think about it, with the Browns and Bengals in your division that's pretty much three wins guaranteed a year.

The 1980s are widely considered dark times for the Steelers franchise, yet the last 10 years have basically mirrored that in terms of post season success.

Bingo. I think it was Noll's last year in 1991 with Joe Walton as OC when in the first half of the season the defense actually scored more TD's than the offense did.

 

[SojournerSteel]

I'm starting to think that Mike may simply not enjoy working over MLK Day weekend. Maybe he prefers to spend this time with friends and family, BBQing in the garage, working on whatever hobbies he holds dear and then kicking back with a cold beer to watch some football.

And catch the NBA full slate of games.

 

[jitter77]

I will refer to Chuck Noll. In the book "Three Bricks Shy of a Load" at one point he says that adjustments are more about one team playing better. Noll was a coach who didn't overstate his own importance. I do believe the adjustments thing ha taken a life of it's own to make coaches appear smart and football to appear like rocket science. It isn't. All the adjustments in the world won't do **** if the player you are counting on doesn't beat the other player. That is just a fact. Noll knew that.

So lets say you have a game plan of a DB single covering a WR. If the DB is getting destroyed do you think the coach should just throw his hands up and be like "whelp guess we lost." Of course not you give the DB help with double coverage or bracket coverage. You have to be able to adapt as to what is happening during the game. Of course certain things are harder to fix during a game than others, but good coaching or adjustments can cover some holes.

 

[diver]

Look, guys, in no way am I arguing Tomlin should stay. I'm done with him.

I'd just rather criticize him on things I can see, provable things, and I believe the adjustment argument is pure speculation. We have no idea what goes on in there at half. None. Besides, when you make arguments that are unprovable, it is too easy to then say something like, "Don't be ridiculous, they make adjustments." "Why do fans always go down rabbit holes?" Then no one has to answer the legitimate questions.

Of course Tomlin never seems to have to answer any questions anyway.

 

[SteelerFan448]

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1610755614

“I think we lacked execution overall. I think we lacked execution in the pass game, in the run game. We kind of got away from what we were used to doing, and that’s pretty much just being simple and executing the game plan,” Fitzpatrick said. “Honestly, that’s it, for real. I think it’s very simple the reasons why we lost football games. It wasn't like we were getting outplayed or outsmarted or outhustled. It was just lack of execution on our part, as players. I think there’s a lot of things I could've done differently, could've said differently, to make sure that didn't happen.

To me, lack of execution comes down to lack of adequate preparation. I also think it was more than just the lack of execution. The defensive line was physically dominated no matter what the players say. Schematically the Browns attacked the Steelers weaknesses. Mentally, the Browns came into a game with a chip on their shoulder and the Steelers act like every opponent is the same. As it's been said on this board many times, the Steelers enter games with the feeling like they're going to win because they're going to out talent the other team. When that doesn't happen, they've always had Ben to fall back on. He can't consistently work his magic anymore, so what is there when he can't do it by himself?

 

[topseed]

Which reminds, I hated the complete lack of imagination on the 2 pt plays. No movement, no Dobbs, nothing. Just Ben throwing too high to guys that are covered.

Well, using Dobbs on a 2-point play was not only hard to imagine, but also impossible -- Tomlin deactivated Dobbs for the playoff game.

 

[Ike Kelly]

The MT nut-huggers are out in full force on FB and talk radio with their annual "Well who would you replace him with then?", except this year they're getting dozens of legitimate answers. It's great fun to watch. I answered Eric Bieniemy or Duce Staley and they can't call me a racist.

Although they won't fire Shades so I know it's a pointless discussion.

Ron, Bieniemy and Staley didn’t call plays in their offense, Andy and Pederson called the offense.

Did just find out Canada called the plays the last regular season game with Rudolph. There was some promise there.


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[Ron Burgundy]

So lets say you have a game plan of a DB single covering a WR. If the DB is getting destroyed do you think the coach should just throw his hands up and be like "whelp guess we lost." Of course not you give the DB help with double coverage or bracket coverage. You have to be able to adapt as to what is happening during the game. Of course certain things are harder to fix during a game than others, but good coaching or adjustments can cover some holes.

The all-time classic IMO was when The Bruce said, "We don't adjust our game plans based on the weather". I doubt the attitude from the top has changed.

 

[Drink IRON City]

The all-time classic IMO was when The Bruce said, "We don't adjust our game plans based on the weather". I doubt the attitude from the top has changed.

I Remeber that dumb asZ comment from the Bruce but I also Remeber TOMLIN's innuendo of near the same thing in playing run or pass dominance teams. "We will run the ball (against the #3 run D as opposed to passing because they are #26 pass D"




Salute the nation

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

Ron, Bieniemy and Staley didn’t call plays in their offense, Andy and Pederson called the offense.

Did just find out Canada called the plays the last regular season game with Rudolph. There was some promise there.

Ike ,, apparently you have some insight that many dont. At least me.

anyway. How, who the f switches around coordinators / play callers in mid season. or end of season.. Then NEXT week ,, playing the same team.. go back to the other guy.

This is stupid.