The Coronavirus thread

[oneforthebus]

Could this whole mask mandate thing be a testing ground to see compliance? Starting down that slippery slope of a police state? That fearful people will turn in a bit of their liberty for safety?

That just happens to coincide with a very contagious and somewhat lethal virus spreading globally? What are the odds?

I mean you make some great, common sense points IMO that a mask is going to at least prevent some flow of one person's airborne germs to another, but with all of the moving parts (people not wearing them correctly, not wearing the right ones, touching their face all the time), how can the government mandate something like that?

I've already said I don't think mandates are the way to go. Just creates rebellion. It should have been encouraged. It should have never been made into something about "freedom". It really isn't in numerous other countries where people wear them voluntarily because they want to reduce their chances of getting sick or making others sick. Not as some signal of submission to the government.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

There are studies that show masks reduce the spread of respiratory droplets which are thought to spread the virus.

Are there definitive peer reviewed double blind studies proving anything? No. This virus has been around for 6 months! You were totally ok with Trump pushing people take a drug without these types of definitive studies, but you are NOT ok with people pushing wearing a piece of cloth over their face because of the common sense notion that your spew can't travel as far if it's blocked by something without these definitive studies.

Ok.

Got it.

That's also an over reach. I'm all for trying things to find a cure/solution. I was ok with Trump suggesting Hydroxychloroquine and Birx suggesting Remdesivir. I was for wearing masks. I was for 15 days to slow the curve. I was for 30 days.

When **** stops working, I stop being for it. When they lie to me about it, it's worse.

Hydroxy has shown to be effective.
Remdesivir has been shown to work.
Masks were suggested to have NO impact to stopping the spread of COVID, and we were told don't use them.
Masks were then suggested to be effective.
Masks were then mandated in parts of the country.

Yet the virus grows.

There's no evidence yet that I've seen that wearing masks has had an impact good or bad. Are testing increases the reason the virus has grown? Maybe. Is the rising # of cases empirical evidence that masks don't work? Nor sure. But unlike Hydroxy and Remdesivir, there isn't a lot of anecdotal or empirical evidence to say masks are working. That I've seen.

 

[oneforthebus]

I'm just repeating the same things over and over again.

Masks...easy to find, cheap, EXTREMELY low risk if any of adverse effects. Discomfort main side effect.

LOTS of evidence that the virus is spread most easily among groups of people in close proximity, especially in indoor situations with poor ventilation. Suggests that the virus spreads most easily by aerosolized droplets.

Studies that show aerosolized droplets travel less far and wide when wearing masks. It doesn't contain them completely, no. It reduces how far they travel before falling harmlessly to the ground.

Increasing evidence that severity of illness is linked to viral load, in effect how much of these droplets you are exposed to.

I'm sorry, to me that's as much of a no-brainer as exists.

What's the downside? What? Maybe we'll discover 6 months from now masks didn't help at all. Oh well.

Maybe we'll discover 6 months from now that masks could have reduced infections by 20, 30, 40, 50 or 90%.

Big L.

 

[Tibs]

Victory over the virus. The smug declarations of How Bad America Is Doing. Eventually restrictions get relaxed everywhere, either by law or human nature. This phenomenon may have happened first in the US but it will spread everywhere eventually bringing more outbreaks with it.

This board is so wierd. Even the relatively 'normal' posters seem to have trouble with comprehension. Maybe all the lunacy from the hardcore right-wingers is contagious, and rubs off on everyone, even a smart, reasonable person like OFTB. Anyway, I digress. As to your post:

1. Victory over the virus...
As in, you're suggesting I've declared this? Not even close, you're making this up. I've said many times it's going to be a long, tough road ahead, until a vaccine is widely dispersed.

2. Smug declarations of How Bad America Is Doing...
I've repeated over and over how upsetting it is that the curve went north, instead of south, in places like TX, where my brother and son happen to live. There is nothing smug in what I've posted, just more critical than most. I don't have patience for the incessant craziness from many on this board, who seem completely disconnected from reality, and exist in a bubble of OANN/alt-right/far-right conspiracies and full onset paranoia. So my posts tend to be direct and contrarian, which is very much on purpose, to cut through the bs.

3. This phenomenon may have happened first in the US but it will spread everywhere eventually bringing more outbreaks with it.
No idea what you're referencing here. Covid was spreading around the world in Feb and March in Wuhan, Italy, Iran, South Korea well before it impacted the US. The more serious spread began in the EU and the US right around the same time. The type of mitigation measures we've discussed here - masks, social distancing, lockdowns, etc. have been in effect for months and months in many places around the world, including throughout Europe. The only difference has been the past two months, where after some early good news with flattening the curve, the US has seen dramatic increases of cases through June & July. Nobody is happy about that, believe me.

 

[hamster]

This board is so wierd. Even the relatively 'normal' posters seem to have trouble with comprehension. Maybe all the lunacy from the hardcore right-wingers is contagious, and rubs off on everyone, even a smart, reasonable person like OFTB.

......................

 

[Tibs]

Everyone Is Crazy But Me

Lol, that's one way to look at it. On this board, being considered crazy is probably a good thing, so I'll wear it like a badge of honor, thanks.

 

[jitter77]

That's also an over reach. I'm all for trying things to find a cure/solution. I was ok with Trump suggesting Hydroxychloroquine and Birx suggesting Remdesivir. I was for wearing masks. I was for 15 days to slow the curve. I was for 30 days.

When **** stops working, I stop being for it. When they lie to me about it, it's worse.

Hydroxy has shown to be effective.
Remdesivir has been shown to work.
Masks were suggested to have NO impact to stopping the spread of COVID, and we were told don't use them.
Masks were then suggested to be effective.
Masks were then mandated in parts of the country.

Yet the virus grows.

There's no evidence yet that I've seen that wearing masks has had an impact good or bad. Are testing increases the reason the virus has grown? Maybe. Is the rising # of cases empirical evidence that masks don't work? Nor sure. But unlike Hydroxy and Remdesivir, there isn't a lot of anecdotal or empirical evidence to say masks are working. That I've seen.

One of the reasons why the virus grows is because of how the country opened up. Most places went from 0 to full tilt and people took 0 precautions or did not care. You still have people gathering doing whatever with 0 protection claiming masks don't work when they are not even wearing them. Anyone with even a shred of common sense can see how a mask slows down dispersal. There are many videos showing how breathing / coughing with and without masks looks in slow mo. If people half-*** their mask wearing then of course it's not going to be effective. As for an actual study that would be near impossible to do properly. What would you do? Have a room full of people, half masked, half unmasked then have a symptomatic covid person go around coughing? Even then there are many other factors in play.

 

[oneforthebus]

This board is so wierd. Even the relatively 'normal' posters seem to have trouble with comprehension. Maybe all the lunacy from the hardcore right-wingers is contagious, and rubs off on everyone, even a smart, reasonable person like OFTB. Anyway, I digress. As to your post:

1. Victory over the virus...
As in, you're suggesting I've declared this? Not even close, you're making this up. I've said many times it's going to be a long, tough road ahead, until a vaccine is widely dispersed.

2. Smug declarations of How Bad America Is Doing...
I've repeated over and over how upsetting it is that the curve went north, instead of south, in places like TX, where my brother and son happen to live. There is nothing smug in what I've posted, just more critical than most. I don't have patience for the incessant craziness from many on this board, who seem completely disconnected from reality, and exist in a bubble of OANN/alt-right/far-right conspiracies and full onset paranoia. So my posts tend to be direct and contrarian, which is very much on purpose, to cut through the bs.

3. This phenomenon may have happened first in the US but it will spread everywhere eventually bringing more outbreaks with it.
No idea what you're referencing here. Covid was spreading around the world in Feb and March in Wuhan, Italy, Iran, South Korea well before it impacted the US. The more serious spread began in the EU and the US right around the same time. The type of mitigation measures we've discussed here - masks, social distancing, lockdowns, etc. have been in effect for months and months in many places around the world, including throughout Europe. The only difference has been the past two months, where after some early good news with flattening the curve, the US has seen dramatic increases of cases through June & July. Nobody is happy about that, believe me.

Oh geez do I really have to get into this nitpicky dissection of my words? I said "I wouldn't declare victory yet." I did not claim that you declared victory. But you have posted many things that imply much of the world has this completely under control and the US does not. My point is that total lockdowns, even social distancing and mask wearing will not remain in place or be perfect anywhere forever. Eventually wherever things are relaxed (and that is what I mean by this will spread...the relaxation of precautions, poor choice of words on my part) the virus will resurge. No one has some magic protocol that has their country dealing with this in some great, special way. Human beings being who they are there will be outbreaks in many places until there is widespread vaccination.

 

[Supersteeler]

Lol, that's one way to look at it. On this board, being considered crazy is probably a good thing, so I'll wear it like a badge of honor, thanks.

Anyone who has aligned themselves with people who are burning down businesses, assaulting people who disagree with them, going to people's homes and threatening their lives for disagreeing with them and terrorizing the general public probably ought to take a good hard look at the world around them and think hard about which side has gone crazy. Is it that side that celebrates and encourages outright terrorism or a guy who has a potty mouth on Twitter?

 

[SteelChip]

Sheeeiiiit.....so now Chris Wallace is tryin' to preen the weenie too.

Lottsa good graphs in here


Horowitz: Chris Wallace flubs America’s virus death rate while playing gotcha with Trump


Wallace asserted that the U.S. has “the seventh highest mortality rate in the world … higher than Brazil, it’s higher than Russia, and the European Union has us on a travel ban.”

The president was confused about the source of Wallace’s numbers and requested a pause in the interview so they could clarify the data. Trump was then handed a piece of paper with information, after which the president exclaimed, “Number one low mortality rate.”

America is not exactly number one in terms of the lowest number of deaths per capita, but it is near the bottom compared to most major countries.

Later on, Wallace admitted he was using a chart from Johns Hopkins that showed the U.S. in eighth place for the highest mortality rate in the world.

But this chart is random and includes cherry-picked countries with only a few European nations. It also doesn’t take into account the insane amount of testing we have, which means we have discovered many more cases and therefore actually have a much lower case fatality rate.

This is dishonest beyond belief. The White House was using a much more appropriate chart from Our World in Data, which compared the U.S. to primarily other Western countries with much better data reporting

But here’s the broader issue. To the extent that America is recording a lot of COVID-19 deaths, it’s mainly driven by the Democrat-run states the media is placing on a pedestal as the paradigm for a successful coronavirus result. By listening to the media, one would think Texas and Florida are like Italy, while New York and New Jersey are like Taiwan. In reality, our fatality rate is being driven almost entirely by the six states that placed COVID-positive patients back into nursing homes.

NY, NJ, CT, and MA all have had more deaths per capita than any US State and any country in the world.

Any other story is simply revisionist history.

But here’s the broader issue. To the extent that America is recording a lot of COVID-19 deaths, it’s mainly driven by the Democrat-run states the media is placing on a pedestal as the paradigm for a successful coronavirus result. By listening to the media, one would think Texas and Florida are like Italy, while New York and New Jersey are like Taiwan. In reality, our fatality rate is being driven almost entirely by the six states that placed COVID-positive patients back into nursing homes.

Indeed, if Trump is guilty of one thing it’s not firing Fauci. During a weekend interview, Fauci had the shocking audacity to suggest that New York is the model to follow and how the state “did it correctly.”

Well, you can’t have it both ways – complaining that America has a high mortality rate and treating New York like the road to paradise.

Not only is politics trumping science, it is trumping simple arithmetic.
https://www.conservativereview.com/...ericas-virus-death-rate-playing-gotcha-trump/

 

[Superman]

the problem with masks is that people see them as preventive. as in it will prevent "me" from getting the rona. hell, I could carry the rona and unknowingly distribute it to someone else. maybe that person gets sick from it. even if that person was wearing a mask. we were told that masks do not help - that is 100% true. that was updated to say that the masks decrease the distance the virus can travel via droplets expelled when coughing, sneezing or when someone talks.i'm sure someone would have to be talking very ******* loud for the droplet to travel the max 6 feet, but that's besides the point.

i've got a cloth mask from a sexy lady that i and some others have cucked a few times. when i've worn it, it was difficult for me to breathe. seemed i had to remove an ear loop to let fresh air in.

i've worn a paper mask since it IS difficult to breathe in a cloth mask in the Florida heat. wasn't bad, but ...

i've some neck gaiters now that are easier to breathe through, but again ... it doesnt protect ME.

none of the masks protect me. i don't like wearing one, but do so not out of fear of the virus, but because I don't want to get popped and have to give money to the government in the form of paying a fine.

i've seen the memes of what virologists wear on Facebook. the analogy of putting up a chain link fence to prevent mosquitos is perfect as well. maybe wearing a mask does decrease the forward locomotion of the virus when expelled. maybe it doesnt. i've heard that Japanese wear masks more frequently during a viral outbreak not as safety for themselves, but as safety for others.

i'm not worried about getting the Wuhan Flu. If I get it, I get it. However, I don't go around a lot of people, i wash my hands and use hand sanitizer and have never put my face in someone's mouth when they cough or sneeze. preventing the spread of this is basic common sense. wash your hands, use hand sanitizer. i see it as - when i open a door to someplace (restaurant, etc), i want to wash my hands, because i dont know what the person before me had on theirs before they opened the door.

who wants to eat (without washing your hands) after opening a door ark just manhandled?

 

[Steelr4evr]

Here is my thing. Regardless of what side you are on. Pro lock down/mask or open me up and my choice, it doesn’t matter unless there is ZERO infected people on this planet. One person can make this explode again. One. Until folks realize this will not be eradicated (until Biden wins strangely lol), but rather this is or has the potential to be another annual virus that we must overcome.

There will be vaccination. Some will get it others will say **** that. The number of infected will go on just like other virus but your body will do what it’s supposed to. Those most at risk for virus infection and negative outcomes will have pass.

It’s only takes one. It only took one to start this.

That's what I've been trying to get across to people. This stuff could drop way down to tiny numbers, people won't be going to get tested all the time then. Just takes one and then it would be clandestine in its spread.

 

[Superman]

and the media continues to spew their bullshit...

 

[Tibs]

Anyone who has aligned themselves with people who are burning down businesses, assaulting people who disagree with them, going to people's homes and threatening their lives for disagreeing with them and terrorizing the general public probably ought to take a good hard look at the world around them and think hard about which side has gone crazy. Is it that side that celebrates and encourages outright terrorism or a guy who has a potty mouth on Twitter?

Thanks for your concern, but you've got it all wrong. Despite the repeated attempts to slander me over the years, I've never 'aligned myself' with any person or group resorting to violence. I've been an anti-facist all my life, stand strongly against white supremacy, but don't support or condone the acts of Antifa, who resort to violence. I support the wider, broader Black Lives Movement, but disagree with and condemn the narrow BLM activist groups who resort to violence. I support our Constitutional right of free speech to protest, and do it loudly, vehemently when warranted, but don't support anarchist groups who destroy property and attack police or other civilians. See how that works? At 51, I'm pretty aware of where my moral compass stands.

This is the side I'm 'aligned with' in Portland, for instance. These moms who've been coming out each day to peacefully protest. Or the Navy veteran who came to peacefully demonstrate the other day, and was viciously attacked by thugs in unmarked uniforms, masquerading as Feds.

Now back to the subject at hand, COVID. Just thought I'd respond to your post, as you say I never answer anything on the board.

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Love all these mom protestors in Portland. Lullaby singing “Hands up don’t shoot me” was not on my 2020 bingo card. <a href="https://t.co/vBMV6PrRFw">pic.twitter.com/vBMV6PrRFw</a></p>— Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) <a href="https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1285429795841609730?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>
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[SojournerSteel]

and the media continues to spew their bullshit...

LOL, that says it all. If Trump came out and told everyone in the world to wear masks, Tibs would call him a Fascist dictator. Well, Tibs already has with Trump trying to stop the violence in Portland.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Why is everyone showing worlddata charts that show CFR? They say right on the chart that CFR is a poor measure of mortality. To me the best measure of how countries are doing against the virus are the addition of new cases.
Yesterday for instance US had 62,879, Italy 190, UK 580, Canada 786, Germany 642, France 350, Australia 267. We are in a league of our own, with many cases and deaths to follow, while most developed countries have it under control. Main reason we don't have it under control and other countries do is that we are lead by a Dumb Dumb in Chief.

 

[Superman]

Why is everyone showing worlddata charts that show CFR? They say right on the chart that CFR is a poor measure of mortality. To me the best measure of how countries are doing against the virus are the addition of new cases.
Yesterday for instance US had 62,879, Italy 190, UK 580, Canada 786, Germany 642, France 350, Australia 267. We are in a league of our own, with many cases and deaths to follow, while most developed countries have it under control. Main reason we don't have it under control and other countries do is that we are lead by a Dumb Dumb in Chief.

it's like you strive to get stupider every day.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Why is everyone showing worlddata charts that show CFR? They say right on the chart that CFR is a poor measure of mortality. To me the best measure of how countries are doing against the virus are the addition of new cases.
Yesterday for instance US had 62,879, Italy 190, UK 580, Canada 786, Germany 642, France 350, Australia 267. We are in a league of our own, with many cases and deaths to follow, while most developed countries have it under control. Main reason we don't have it under control and other countries do is that we are lead by a Dumb Dumb in Chief.

so if the US just stops testing completely then we will have 0 cases and eradicated the virus.

 

[Tibs]

so if the US just stops testing completely then we will have 0 cases and eradicated the virus.

You're beginning to sound like the bloated, orange, deranged clown who (temporarily) resides in the WH.

 

[Steelworth]

Why is everyone showing worlddata charts that show CFR? They say right on the chart that CFR is a poor measure of mortality. To me the best measure of how countries are doing against the virus are the addition of new cases.
Yesterday for instance US had 62,879, Italy 190, UK 580, Canada 786, Germany 642, France 350, Australia 267. We are in a league of our own, with many cases and deaths to follow, while most developed countries have it under control. Main reason we don't have it under control and other countries do is that we are lead by a Dumb Dumb in Chief.

 

[Steelworth]

You're beginning to sound like the bloated, orange, deranged clown who (temporarily) resides in the WH.

No, he's playing 21STUPID21's deranged little game of new added cases, with a touch of China & other dishonest regimes mixed in.

Hospitalizations and deaths, that's what should be counted right now when you can't count on anything else to be entirely true. I don't know how many examples have already been shown to you that they're cooking the books on new 'cases'.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

You're beginning to sound like the bloated, orange, deranged clown who (temporarily) resides in the WH.

You seriously cannot see the epic amount of stupid in 21s post????? I've given you way too much credit.

We're testing more than any country on the planet, by a LONG shot. With more tests comes more positives.

You, 21 and the rest of the Libtards are as predictable as ****. We said if Trump cured cancer, ya'll would run around bitching about him putting doctors out of work. That's not a joke - you WOULD.

Look at this situation:
Months ago you bitched about not enough testing. The media screamed about the lack of tests. Tests are the key. Tests, tests, tests.
Now we are testing more than any nation on earth.
Naturally, the # of cases rises because of additional testing.
Now you and the same MSM retards who screamed that we needed more testing are running around saying COVID is a disaster because cases have skyrocketed.

Tape was right: using your logic - when we test more, cases rise, and you blame Trump for the "disaster" of the # of cases. Exact logic reversed is if we performed NO more tests, and discovered no more cases, then likewise we can say we've eradicated the virus.

Yes...that's how epically stupid 21's analysis was and your subsequent inferred agreement.

 

[Steelworth]

Thanks for your concern, but you've got it all wrong. Despite the repeated attempts to slander me over the years, I've never 'aligned myself' with any person or group resorting to violence. I've been an anti-facist all my life

Didn't you literally compare Antifa to those brave boys who stormed the beaches of Normandy in WWII?

 

[Tibs]

Didn't you literally compare Antifa to those brave boys who stormed the beaches of Normandy in WWII?

I said they were the original anti-facists, our heroes who stormed the beaches of Normandy. Which they were. And I'll proudly support American anti-fascists until the day I die.

Tim had a typical hissy-fit, which has lasted the better part of what, 3-4 years, saying I equated the WWII heroes with Antifa, the fringe, extremist group I don't support. Everyone needs a bogeyman, for many on the board, I guess I'm it. Oh well, such is life.

It seems as if the entire Trump base simply sees things in the binary, as a black or white, yes or no equation. That's why you can't differentiate between supporting anti-facism in general, like I do, or supporting a fringe group called Antifa, which I don't. Same goes for the broad, nationwide Black Lives Matter movement, as opposed to the extremist fringe group with the same name, BLM. You can support one, and not the other. It's not that complicated. It seems as if shades of grey simply don't exist on the right side of the political spectrum. Hence all the huffing and puffing and being outraged 24/7 over perceived slights and misunderstandings.

 

[Supersteeler]

Thanks for your concern, but you've got it all wrong. Despite the repeated attempts to slander me over the years, I've never 'aligned myself' with any person or group resorting to violence. I've been an anti-facist all my life, stand strongly against white supremacy, but don't support or condone the acts of Antifa, who resort to violence. I support the wider, broader Black Lives Movement, but disagree with and condemn the narrow BLM activist groups who resort to violence. I support our Constitutional right of free speech to protest, and do it loudly, vehemently when warranted, but don't support anarchist groups who destroy property and attack police or other civilians. See how that works? At 51, I'm pretty aware of where my moral compass stands.

This is the side I'm 'aligned with' in Portland, for instance. These moms who've been coming out each day to peacefully protest. Or the Navy veteran who came to peacefully demonstrate the other day, and was viciously attacked by thugs in unmarked uniforms, masquerading as Feds.

Now back to the subject at hand, COVID. Just thought I'd respond to your post, as you say I never answer anything on the board.

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Love all these mom protestors in Portland. Lullaby singing “Hands up don’t shoot me” was not on my 2020 bingo card. <a href="https://t.co/vBMV6PrRFw">pic.twitter.com/vBMV6PrRFw</a></p>— Eric Feigl-Ding (@DrEricDing) <a href="https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1285429795841609730?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 21, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>
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I'm very happy to see you are willing to condemn this group of terrorists who are trying to take over cities by force. I have never and will never want people to be stopped from peacefully protesting. But when people use destruction and assault as a means to get their message across they automatically lose their protestor status in my mind and become terrorists.