Tomlin Extension

[ark steel]

Believe as you will................................................. He is as much cowher as dan.............................. REGARDLESS, he isn't TOMLIN's




Salute the nation

BS. "Cowhers players" won zero SB, until Dan stepped into the draft discussion to say "take Ben".

The year after the SB "Cowhers players" went something like 2-6 while ben was injured/out.

I think it was the last 8 games that Ben played and, suddenly, "cowhers players " go 6-2.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Rooney told cowher to take him. Cowher is just a beneficiary of Rooney's decision.

Cowher was his coach who broke him into the NFL and started the development process into a Hall of Famer. Cowher legacy.

 

[Drink IRON City]

BS. "Cowhers players" won zero SB, until Dan stepped into the draft discussion to say "take Ben".

The year after the SB "Cowhers players" went something like 2-6 while ben was injured/out.

I think it was the last 8 games that Ben played and, suddenly, "cowhers players " go 6-2.

There are several "versions" of that story out there. The ONLY two who truely know would be Cowher & ROONEY (BHS). That part is so irrelevant because Cowher is the coach and BEN was drafted under Cowher,.... Thus Cowher legacy. It is so trivial and been argued in every direction and who gives a rats *** other than Cowher did so much more with Ben than Tomlin has. That to has been hashed and hashed so most here have their interpritation just and mind made up. I am where I am and you are where you are. ONE thing for certain,..... We are both STEELERS fans.




Salute the nation

 

[Coryea]

BS. "Cowhers players" won zero SB, until Dan stepped into the draft discussion to say "take Ben".

The year after the SB "Cowhers players" went something like 2-6 while ben was injured/out.

I think it was the last 8 games that Ben played and, suddenly, "cowhers players " go 6-2.

Cowher made a Super Bowl and 4 AFCCG with Neil and Kordell, then 2 in 2 years with Ben. Tomlin has made 3 total with Ben.

Dan didn't tell him to take Ben, they were discussing Andrews because there should've been no way in hell Ben dropped to us, I believe it was Bouchette that said the Steelers tried to trade up to I think it was Washingtons pick after the Giants took Rivers (before the trade) to get Ben, but they couldn't get a deal done.

 

[Superman]

Cowher made a Super Bowl and 4 AFCCG with Neil and Kordell, then 2 in 2 years with Ben. Tomlin has made 3 total with Ben.

Dan didn't tell him to take Ben, they were discussing Andrews because there should've been no way in hell Ben dropped to us, I believe it was Bouchette that said the Steelers tried to trade up to I think it was Washingtons pick after the Giants took Rivers (before the trade) to get Ben, but they couldn't get a deal done.

whatever you choose to believe, but fact is Rooney "directed the conversation back to Ben".

as you said, Cowher had Kordell and O'Donnell. He obviously was not much of an offensive guru. His forte was special teams and defense. While Tomlin was said to be a defensive whiz (we've not seen much of that), what we have seen is the offense ******* explode. Year in and year out, we have a very good offense. Would we have had the same offense if we had some other QB? Hard to say either way, but we can all agree that our offense is very good.

So in one coach we had a guy who would put a very good defense on the field with quality special teams - even though we would always call them "special". And an offense that was built around the run game so as to churn the clock down and keep the defense off the field thereby having a fresh defense in the 4th quarter to close out games

In the other coach we have a guy who leans more on the offense to put up points and score quickly. Special teams are almost an after thought. Defense is middle of the pack at best, but as you pointed out we have the 2nd most wins behind the Pats. So his recipe works overall. Yes, he ***** up and so did Cowher. All coaches who do not rely on the electronic genius of Panasonic, Sony and Bose **** up.

Is Tomlin the best coach in the NFL? Would I prefer him over anyone else? No.
to borrow an obvious phrase, he is who he is, obviously.

And we could be worse off. We could have Ben and a bunch of slack jawed offensive guys around him coupled with a worse defense under a coach who doesnt have any reason being a HC. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[fedderone]

Useless thread started.
I have a subscription to The Athletic and read the Bouchette article being referenced.
It's merely Ed's opinion.
Nowhere did he say, "I know for a fact" or "I was personally told by Art II".
It's his educated guess.......which he gets paid to make.
Aaron Rodgers and Frankie Goes to Hollywood both say, "RELAX".

 

[ark steel]

There are several "versions" of that story out there. The ONLY two who truely know would be Cowher & ROONEY (BHS). That part is so irrelevant because Cowher is the coach and BEN was drafted under Cowher,.... Thus Cowher legacy. It is so trivial and been argued in every direction and who gives a rats *** other than Cowher did so much more with Ben than Tomlin has. That to has been hashed and hashed so most here have their interpritation just and mind made up. I am where I am and you are where you are. ONE thing for certain,..... We are both STEELERS fans.


Salute the nation

there are versions, but everyone, really, knows what happened.

Cowher was given a gift. He didn't teach Ben how to do ****.

 

[Steelworth]

Lurker here, but this thread is where the rubber meets the road with this franchise IMO. Nothing about Tomlin has trended upward since the Tebowing and the embarrassing sideline incident a couple years later. Too many sloppy performances rationalized with "not looking for style points" and "we don't apologize for it" gibberish.

Looking back, he was compensating for something. He still is compensating with comments about "formulation" and "cleansing" following Operation Scapegoat that started in Week 17. Tomlin aided and abetted the very conditions that are now scapegoated as the two reasons for his lack of results.

Tomlin's handling of challenges and the admission by Art that the team will now hire a replay assistant is Exhibit A of his lack of Executive humility.

By contrast, Jon Gruden's very first move upon accepting the job in Oakland was to hire Gerry Austin. Why? Because Gruden's years in the booth taught him that the game had changed at warp speed and static approaches to dynamic challenges would not work. Tomlin meanwhile had to be dragged kicking and screaming to change and has yet to exhibit the humility of self-introspection.

It should also be mandated that he figure out how to rotate carries in the backfield. How many seasons were compromised by his stubborn refusal to do so.

Definitely agree with others that making this a Prove It year is a No Brainer.

Well said. Post more.

 

[black and gold apex]

Not making play off , all the total BS about Brown and what Tomlin allowed, that is some hard reading

 

[ExUSAF]

LOL....It's funny because this Forum hates Tomlin.

Fact is 80-90% of the league would love to have his success. Yeah, I said it....

Ranked #19 Greatest Head Coach of All-Time here https://athlonsports.com/nfl/25-greatest-head-coaches-nfl-history

I noticed that you said 80 - 90% of the league would love to have his success - not Tomlin. Seriously, the 37.5% that made the playoffs would rather have his 9-6-1 record and miss the playoffs?

 

[Steelin]

What was it 'Top five overrated coaches' but sure I bet were he to leave he would prompt bidding war of top tier teams. Bwahahaha! The Steelers win despite him not because of him IMHO.

 

[Drink IRON City]

What was it 'Top five overrated coaches' but sure I bet were he to leave he would prompt bidding war of top tier teams. Bwahahaha! The Steelers win despite him not because of him IMHO.

I'd always say the same thing about Arians when he was OC...........he sucked...... But BEN & Company won in spite of him..................





Salute the nation

 

[Litos]

I'm extending my middle finger towards that extension

 

[xjx]

I doubt there would be a bidding war for Tomlin as a coach. I think he would get offers to be on staff somewhere, but head coach....no.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Tomlin's handling of challenges and the admission by Art that the team will now hire a replay assistant is Exhibit A of his lack of Executive humility.

To clarify, Art 2 did not admit that the team will hire a replay assistant. Rather one of the asst coaches (Austin) will be fulfilling that role.

If Art 2 did state that a actual replay assistant will be hired, post the link please.


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[SojournerSteel]

To clarify, Art 2 did not admit that the team will hire a replay assistant. Rather one of the asst coaches (Austin) will be fulfilling that role.

If Art 2 did state that a actual replay assistant will be hired, post the link please.


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https://Invalid Link - Check SN Hom...challenges-expects-no-other-coaching-changes/

It sounded fluid at the end of the season in terms of adding or assigning someone. Ultimately, if it's one of the assistants then it's still concerning that it took losing 2 season's worth of challenges to realize change was needed to methodology. Not exactly ahead of the curve.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Coaches almost always get extensions. Because if a coach is on his last year with no extension, it's a cloud over the team. Media will ask constantly and if players think the coach may be gone, then he doesn't have the authority he needs in the locker room.

In other words, it's a huge distraction and the steelers don't need anymore of those.

Coaches don't count against the cap. Coaches get fired all the time after signing extensions. All it costs the team is money if they fire a coach with years left on his deal.

In other words, if Tomlin signs an extension and the team goes south, this extension won't stop him from being fired. Coach contracts are usually guaranteed unless they take another coaching job. That's why so many coaches do TV for a year or so after being fired. It's because they are still being paid by their old team while picking up a second TV check.

I'd guess Tomlin would get immediate job offers. He'd definitely get TV offers because of his personality and his credentials. I'd bet he'd be offered the Monday Night gig right off the bat.

So yes, even if you aren't a Tomlin fan, you should want him to get an extension. There is no football downside to it. The only downside could be the Rooneys on the hook to pay him if he was fired and since that doesn't impact the cap, it shoudn't impact the team.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

No extension until or unless he gets to the Super Bowl. Needs a fire lit under his ***. He gets a lot of money from a team with a long history of not firing coaches and he knows it. Get to a Super Bowl with a team full of your own players and then we'll talk.

 

[SojournerSteel]

Coaches almost always get extensions. Because if a coach is on his last year with no extension, it's a cloud over the team. Media will ask constantly and if players think the coach may be gone, then he doesn't have the authority he needs in the locker room.

In other words, it's a huge distraction and the steelers don't need anymore of those.

Coaches don't count against the cap. Coaches get fired all the time after signing extensions. All it costs the team is money if they fire a coach with years left on his deal.

In other words, if Tomlin signs an extension and the team goes south, this extension won't stop him from being fired. Coach contracts are usually guaranteed unless they take another coaching job. That's why so many coaches do TV for a year or so after being fired. It's because they are still being paid by their old team while picking up a second TV check.

I'd guess Tomlin would get immediate job offers. He'd definitely get TV offers because of his personality and his credentials. I'd bet he'd be offered the Monday Night gig right off the bat.

So yes, even if you aren't a Tomlin fan, you should want him to get an extension. There is no football downside to it. The only downside could be the Rooneys on the hook to pay him if he was fired and since that doesn't impact the cap, it shoudn't impact the team.

Mike McCarthy has been out there awhile now. Like Tomlin, he's taken some hits after losing his shine and had a comparable record. Mike Tomlin and MM will probably never have better QBs than BR and AR -- nor the same stability of ownership.

I think an owner would also question Tomlin's nonexistent Coaching Tree. It's also hard to say that he hired his "own" Coordinators. Not sure teams would line up for that especially if things went South for Tomlin like McCarthy. The past 2-3 years haven't been kind already.

 

[Ike Kelly]

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Hom...challenges-expects-no-other-coaching-changes/

It sounded fluid at the end of the season in terms of adding or assigning someone. Ultimately, if it's one of the assistants then it's still concerning that it took losing 2 season's worth of challenges to realize change was needed to methodology. Not exactly ahead of the curve.

As stated previously, some one on the coaching staff would assist Tomlin with challenges, not hire a specific person for the role like an ex ref. Austin is the assigned coach in the box for that role as well as other defense responsibilities. Tomlin has had other staff assistants doing the same thing, but apparently ended up not “trusting” them. Maybe that’s the reason for the poor challenge percentage. Who knows. Austin is a former DC, so hopefully he provides better analysis as to when/when not to challenge.


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[Ike Kelly]

Mike McCarthy has been out there awhile now. Like Tomlin, he's taken some hits after losing his shine and had a comparable record. Mike Tomlin and MM will probably never have better QBs than BR and AR -- nor the same stability of ownership.

I think an owner would also question Tomlin's nonexistent Coaching Tree. It's also hard to say that he hired his "own" Coordinators. Not sure teams would line up for that especially if things went South for Tomlin like McCarthy. The past 2-3 years haven't been kind already.

Name any coach in the last 20 years who hasn’t been routinely successful with multiple playoffs/SB appearances without a thoroughbred QB. Few if any.

This coaching tree topic is overblown in this era. Big bad Belichick the “greatest coach ever” as ruminated by some has left behind what kind of coaching tree? Nothing.....not one successful coach. Today’s NFL doesn’t allow it...as if you don’t win games you are not a coach for long.


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[SojournerSteel]

Name any coach in the last 20 years who hasn’t been routinely successful with multiple playoffs/SB appearances without a thoroughbred QB. Few if any.

This coaching tree topic is overblown in this era. Big bad Belichick the “greatest coach ever” as ruminated by some has left behind what kind of coaching tree? Nothing.....not one successful coach. Today’s NFL doesn’t allow it...as if you don’t win games you are not a coach for long.


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BB's assistants do have mediocre records as HC's, but of course job openings are usually craters for a reason and as you note the window to win is small. Nonetheless, he's had 6 guys by my count get HC jobs (7 if we count Mike Vrabel spinning off O'Brien) in the NFL. Saban and Ferentz obviously took some of the formula with them as well to the college ranks. Tomlin fired the only guy under his command who later went on to find a modicum of success as a HC in Arians.

Wouldn't exactly says BB has left behind "nothing." More like Secretariat's decent-solid yet unspectacular record as a sire. Results could never match the legend.

Call it overblown, but it's also telling that our assistants don't get HC interviews with the kind of sustained regular season success enjoyed by the Steelers over the past 12 years. It keeps the philosophical gene pool fresher and leads to innovation. Otherwise, things can get stale.

I'd call it more of an indicator of lost momentum.

 

[Paul G]

Coaches almost always get extensions. Because if a coach is on his last year with no extension, it's a cloud over the team. Media will ask constantly and if players think the coach may be gone, then he doesn't have the authority he needs in the locker room.

In other words, it's a huge distraction and the steelers don't need anymore of those.

Coaches don't count against the cap. Coaches get fired all the time after signing extensions. All it costs the team is money if they fire a coach with years left on his deal.

In other words, if Tomlin signs an extension and the team goes south, this extension won't stop him from being fired. Coach contracts are usually guaranteed unless they take another coaching job. That's why so many coaches do TV for a year or so after being fired. It's because they are still being paid by their old team while picking up a second TV check.

I'd guess Tomlin would get immediate job offers. He'd definitely get TV offers because of his personality and his credentials. I'd bet he'd be offered the Monday Night gig right off the bat.

So yes, even if you aren't a Tomlin fan, you should want him to get an extension. There is no football downside to it. The only downside could be the Rooneys on the hook to pay him if he was fired and since that doesn't impact the cap, it shoudn't impact the team.

Mike Tomlin is signed through the 2020 season already. After all the drama with Bell, Brown, etc. and the fact that certain things with this team need change. I don't see the harm in letting Tomlin show results this year before possibly getting an extension before the start of training camp next year.
If he does go into his final year without a contract extension I agree the media would cause drama surrounding that fact all season long.
I agree some other team would hire him or he may go the TV route. Having him as color commentating on MNF would be in the same neighborhood as listening to Dennis Miller IMO. He may speak eloquently but it just gets annoying after a short time.

 

[Ike Kelly]

BB's assistants do have mediocre records as HC's, but of course job openings are usually craters for a reason and as you note the window to win is small. Nonetheless, he's had 6 guys by my count get HC jobs (7 if we count Mike Vrabel spinning off O'Brien) in the NFL. Saban and Ferentz obviously took some of the formula with them as well to the college ranks. Tomlin fired the only guy under his command who later went on to find a modicum of success as a HC in Arians.

Wouldn't exactly says BB has left behind "nothing." More like Secretariat's decent-solid yet unspectacular record as a sire. Results could never match the legend.

Call it overblown, but it's also telling that our assistants don't get HC interviews with the kind of sustained regular season success enjoyed by the Steelers over the past 12 years. It keeps the philosophical gene pool fresher and leads to innovation. Otherwise, things can get stale.

I'd call it more of an indicator of lost momentum.

6 former coaches who have all failed as HC on their own or without the common denominator (Ernie). Vrabel never coached for Belichick. He started his coaching stint under Urban Meyer, not Belichick and through Crennel who is probably the most successful of Belichick’s former coaches. Albeit as a coordinator. Saban coaching influence was not from Belichick. He has often commented those 4 years in Cleveland were the “worst of his life”. Hardly an admiration of his stay. His coaching influences was primarily from his father (who never coached professionally or on a collegiate level). Don James and Earle Bruce groomed him for collegiate coaching. I’d say Ferentz was an organization coach than influenced by Belichick, considering he stayed after Belichick was fired.

To compare Belichick’s coaching influence to one of the greatest equine in racing is rather unfair....to Belichick. Since the coach is nowhere close to the level of sport achievement that Big Red was.

Agree to disagree about the “telling” of asst coaches. Other than OBrien and Romeo...I don’t see any other having a modicum of success.


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[Vader]

Like Tape said the extension isn't that big of a deal. My issue is that Tomlin isn't going to change. There is no "lighting a fire under his ***". Coaches don't change after 12 seasons. He's been here almost as long as Cowher. He isn't going to do anything differently. So if you think Tomlin is magically going to stop putting LBs on Wrs or using 2 DL sets then I'm afraid you're in for a rude awakening.