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Steelers Trade up to get Bush

I guess on the bright side, Tomlin has proven he can miss on DBs even in the higher rounds, so maybe it doesn't matter if they draft one in Rd 1 or Rd 4, the odds of success are the same for the steelers
 
people keep pointing out how good Bush is as the justification. That's not the point. They traded up and drafted a guy in the top 10. Obviously that player will be a much better prospect than whoever could be had at 20. By that logic, they should just trade into the top 10 every single year, right?

This is all about what they lost.

My goal is to win the Super Bowl this year. To make that happen, i feel they needed ILB, CB, Safety, WR, RB and TE that can all play this year.

They had 3 picks in the top 66 and 4 in the top 83. They should have been able to get 4 upgraded starters with those picks. Now you have 2 3rd rounders where they will have to hit on a CB and probably have to pick a safety.

To me, losing the 2nd rounder means they likely won't address RB or WR and it means they have to be right on CB and S with later picks. I'm not optimistic with that given their atrocious track record drafting DBs under Tomlin


The way I see it, you now better hope James Washington, Bud, and Sean Davis all step up to become good starters, or at least much better starters than they've been. You also better hope Conner doesn't get injured.

I know people love Conner, but I think he's just a workhorse back. I would have liked an upgrade. Maybe Miles Sanders, Damien Harris, or David Montgomery.

I'm not sold on Steven Nelson as the solution to the secondary. I'm not sure Edmunds will be a great player. He did OK last year but did you see anything that made you say Wow. Polamalu didn't play much as a rookie, but he did have Wow moments in preseason. It was obvious he'd be a difference maker. Did we see any of that with Edmunds?


Let's see what they do tonight. Maybe they can make some more trades and get a 2nd rounder back. Maybe they'll get lucky and DBs will keep sliding.
First off I don't think your goal to win the SB is realistic. If this team wins a division or makes a wildcard, I think that will be pretty good. Secondly, I'm not sure any of the six positions would get you a true starter over what they had. Two receivers were taken, probably Harry has a significant role on the Pats and Brown on the Ravens. I'm not sure they would start on the Steelers, but might certainly help. CB not starting, Safety Not starting, RB not starting. I don't see how you get this Super Bowl caliber team improvement without adding Starters. They got a guy who probably ascends to starter, but if he doesn't he fills a major sub package role. Now the defense was a problem last year and I'm not going to say they weren't, but in reality they did enough to beat the SB champion and probably enough to beat a team that should have been in the SB if not for a couple rubby calls.
 
see ur point tape... the front office has been taking it in *** like the French this off season... started even before not making the playoffs started with bell, then the defense played like ****, butler showing he's totally incompetent not even knowing our rivals starters, brown the owners pet quiting on the team, colbert making stupid comments, on and on... the front office needed to pull this off. they needed it bad. even they were losing confidence in what they are doing. is bush a reach by a desperate coaching staff and front office???? with that being said.... my guess is no... he plugs in and we don't miss a beat. we have the tools to go all the way this year and I think we do and as we do bush with helping lead the way... the two picks in the third will add depth but bush was the guy that could start from day one and they needed that. I will go so far as to say even if we had the over all first pick bush was their man! he starts from day one. you combine wooden, troy, Larry foote a solid Michigan linebacker and you get bush gooooooo steeeeelers!!!!!!!
 
My goal is to win the Super Bowl this year. To make that happen, i feel they needed ILB, CB, Safety, WR, RB and TE that can all play this year.

The Steelers obtained the CB via free agency and the ILBer last night. They need a S and a TE, which I presume they are targeting today.

To me, losing the 2nd rounder means they likely won't address RB or WR and it means they have to be right on CB and S with later picks. I'm not optimistic with that given their atrocious track record drafting DBs under Tomlin.

But they already have the CB in Steve Nelson. Nelson ran a 4.49 40 at the combine, did an elite 19 reps, 34.5" vertical. In his last two healthy seasons (2016 and 2018), he posted 31 passes defensed. He had 4 picks last year. He IS the CB answer as far as the Steelers are concerned.

Do the Steelers need to upgrade for the dreaded post-Haden years? Yes. Would selecting a Byron Murphy and having him play 20% of the snaps in 2019 do much for their SB aspirations? No.

I know people love Conner, but I think he's just a workhorse back. I would have liked an upgrade.

I don't think any RB in this draft is as good as Conner. Conner ran a 4.65 40, did 20 reps, broad jump 113", and gained 973 yards rushing in 12 starts last year, along with 500 yards receiving and a total of 13 TD's. The consensus "best" RB in this draft, Jacobs, is 12 lbs. lighter than Conner, ran a 4.63 at his pro day after opting out at the combine, did 18 reps, broad jump 112". So the noticeably bigger guy ran the same, did more reps, had a better vertical, better broad jump and has proven himself in the NFL.

Plus, Jacobs was one of 3 different guys for the Tide. He was never a feature back who carried the ball 100 times over the course of four games. Conner did that in college, and did it last year with the Steelers.

In short, Conner >> Jacobs. No upgrade possible in this draft where the best RB is not as good as the current RB.

I'm not sold on Steven Nelson as the solution to the secondary.

If Nelson struggles, then the secondary is going to be an issue. It really is that simple. By the same token, as you pointed out, the Steelers success with drafted CB is not good so using a #1 pick on Murphy or Baker means the team is still desperately lacking at ILB, and now is going to rely on a rookie CB where the track record is ... not good.
 
Tape:

I understand what you are saying and, I would have liked to have kept the 2nd rounder.

My goal is to win the Super Bowl this year. To make that happen, i feel they needed ILB, CB, Safety, WR, RB and TE that can all play this year.

I think the signings of Moncrief, Nelson and Barron allowed them to decide if there was a player they really wanted to chase and was worth trading up for. I don't think either of them were intended to be long-term solutions. They filled needs we had and could play right away. I'm more worried that Moncrief wont be as much help as we needed than I am about nelson and Barron.

I don't think Safety play is what lost us games last year and we didn't HAVE to draft a starter this year. I doubt they keep Davis next year, so it does become a bigger need for next draft/FA.

Any RB we draft was going to be a 3rd stringer. Should be able to get that, easily, in 4th or later. Conner hasn't finished a season so it is, likely, we need a 3rd RB who can carry more load. They may get lucky with the RB they get later in the draft or there should be an FA who can carry a load later in the season. They really messed up not picking up one last year when conner went down.

There was, likely, only one TE worth taking in the 2nd and he would, probably, be gone by our pick. He could have been filled the TE/WR role in one.

I wouldn't have thought a CB that was good enough to split time with Nelson would be around in the 2nd, but with only one taken in the 1st, that may be less true than what I had expected.

With what we have now, the D should be significantly improved over last year.

Barron/White > Bostic for that ILB position
Nelson > Sensabaugh or Burns

our Slot corners played pretty well.

If needed, Barron may be able to drop back to S and let White have the ILB position. Having both on the field at one time should be pretty good. If Barron follows in Burnette's steps as a disappointing FA , White should be able to step in and play.
 
people keep pointing out how good Bush is as the justification. That's not the point. They traded up and drafted a guy in the top 10. Obviously that player will be a much better prospect than whoever could be had at 20. By that logic, they should just trade into the top 10 every single year, right?

This is all about what they lost.

My goal is to win the Super Bowl this year. To make that happen, i feel they needed ILB, CB, Safety, WR, RB and TE that can all play this year.

They had 3 picks in the top 66 and 4 in the top 83. They should have been able to get 4 upgraded starters with those picks. Now you have 2 3rd rounders where they will have to hit on a CB and probably have to pick a safety.

To me, losing the 2nd rounder means they likely won't address RB or WR and it means they have to be right on CB and S with later picks. I'm not optimistic with that given their atrocious track record drafting DBs under Tomlin


The way I see it, you now better hope James Washington, Bud, and Sean Davis all step up to become good starters, or at least much better starters than they've been. You also better hope Conner doesn't get injured.

I know people love Conner, but I think he's just a workhorse back. I would have liked an upgrade. Maybe Miles Sanders, Damien Harris, or David Montgomery.

I'm not sold on Steven Nelson as the solution to the secondary. I'm not sure Edmunds will be a great player. He did OK last year but did you see anything that made you say Wow. Polamalu didn't play much as a rookie, but he did have Wow moments in preseason. It was obvious he'd be a difference maker. Did we see any of that with Edmunds?


Let's see what they do tonight. Maybe they can make some more trades and get a 2nd rounder back. Maybe they'll get lucky and DBs will keep sliding.

They lost one pick this year, 1

They upgraded

Sens's spot, Fort's spot, Burnett's spot, brought in a speedy WR to ease the AB loss.

And have 8 picks left


8

That is more than they usually have.

It is enough to find a WR in a deep draft, a solid corner in a not top heavy but deep draft, a solid S prospect, a RB a TE..


And still leaves the team with three picks to perhaps double up on one spot and or bring in a kicker.


I am sorry for me it isn't what they could have done, it is what they HAVE done. And so far it is a A offseason, with a lot more picks to come.
 
I guess on the bright side, Tomlin has proven he can miss on DBs even in the higher rounds, so maybe it doesn't matter if they draft one in Rd 1 or Rd 4, the odds of success are the same for the steelers

true, and tomlin has already proven he cant win with a loaded roster maybe all we need is less talent and lots of luck
 
Looking at the trade value chart, we gave up a 1st (850) a 2nd (380) and next year's 3rd. I think the next year pick is considered 1 later? Something like that. Our 4th round pick this year is 40 points on the chart.


That is 1,280 points. The #10 spot is listed as 1,300 points.

Moving to, say 55 (2nd HOU pitck) would require 350 points. Our first third is 260 points.

Maybe target DAL at 58. 320 points. Switch that pick with our 1st third, and our last 3rd with their pick #90.

That would be 320+140 for them and 260+175 for us. We move up 8 spots and back 7. May have to throw in one of the 6th round picks.
 
The definition of premium picks is subjective, but I consider them to be within the first three rounds.

Regardless, the Steelers used a 1st, 2nd and 3rd on one player.

I like Bush, but he's going to have to he more than decent for the Steelers to get sufficient return on the investment.

I understand what you’re saying Punxy but I just don’t even consider our pick no 20 since we swapped it so that’s a wash right? Now to me what we paid for the right to draft young Mr. Bush were two premium picks, our second today and most likely our third round comp pick next year for ding a ling, I meanBell. Next years pick doesn’t bother me since we will still have our third but we had to give Denver that second today.No team was going to let you move up 10 spots in top 10 without a second. These guys aren’t idiots! And you know as well as I that Bush would not be there had we sat on our hands. Hell, Cincy was most likely taking him at 11.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
Looking at the trade value chart, we gave up a 1st (850) a 2nd (380) and next year's 3rd. I think the next year pick is considered 1 later? Something like that. Our 4th round pick this year is 40 points on the chart.


That is 1,280 points. The #10 spot is listed as 1,300 points.

Moving to, say 55 (2nd HOU pitck) would require 350 points. Our first third is 260 points.

Maybe target DAL at 58. 320 points. Switch that pick with our 1st third, and our last 3rd with their pick #90.

That would be 320+140 for them and 260+175 for us. We move up 8 spots and back 7. May have to throw in one of the 6th round picks.

tenor.gif
 
In Devin Bush, the Steelers get 'a machine' to help lead their defense
RAY FITTIPALDO
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
APR 26, 2019 3:04 PM

Don Brown could not get the words out of his mouth fast enough.

“Don’t worry about it,” the University of Michigan defensive coordinator was saying over the phone Friday morning from Ann Arbor, Mich.

Brown’s quick answer was in response to the question about Devin Bush Jr., the Michigan inside linebacker the Steelers selected with the No. 10 pick in the NFL draft Thursday night.

There is little not to like about Bush’s game. Michigan head coach Jim Harbaugh called him “one of the fastest linebackers” he has ever seen. His 4.43 time in the 40-yard dash at the NFL scouting combine last month sealed his status as a top-10 pick in the draft. He also became the first player to be voted a team captain as a junior under Harbaugh, a feat that is only reinforced when Brown and others talk about Bush’s leadership and football character.

But the question that has always followed Bush is about his size. He stands 5 feet 11 and weighs 234 pounds. The term “undersized” was attached to his name so often throughout the pre-draft process that it might as well have been part of his identity.

“I’m telling you, don’t worry about,” Brown continued. “He will thump you between the tackles. He will run you down sideline to sideline. He’s a tremendous football player. I’m telling you the Steelers are getting a rare find.”

Devin Bush Sr. played in the NFL for eight seasons at almost the exact same size. He was a safety in a different era, when big defensive backs were all the rage. In today’s NFL, the script has flipped. Smaller, faster linebackers are in vogue as coaches try to find players to match up with spread offenses that populate the league.

“I laugh at it,” Devin Sr. said of the talk about his son being small for a linebacker. “It’s foolish. My roommate at Florida State was Derrick Brooks. He was 180 pounds when he got to college, and he’s in the Hall of Fame. Ray Lewis was 215 in college. We listened to the talk. But if you look at the linebackers in the NFL, they’re all that size. If they want to say it, that’s fine. But it’s not something he’s going to care about. It’s only a narrative.”

The Steelers swapped their first-round pick and traded away their second-round pick and a third-round pick next year to get Bush. They did it because he has the athletic profile to excel in the NFL, in addition to elite production and accolades in a major conference.

The Steelers wouldn’t have moved up to get Bush if he didn’t checks those boxes on his resume, but what sold them on Bush was his football character.

“We are equally as fired up about his intangibles,” Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said. “He comes from a football family. He’s a football guy. Everyone speaks very highly of him, not only as a player, but as a person.

“His leadership skills are unquestioned. We interviewed a lot of Michigan players through the draft process, and it was unanimous in terms of who their unquestioned leader was. And that was attractive to us as well. The position that he plays is like a defensive quarterback, and I think that’s something that comes very natural to him.”

Before a game at Michigan State in October, Michigan and Michigan State players got into an altercation during pregame warm-ups, when Bush and his teammates became entangled with Spartans players as they joined hands and attempted to walk through the Wolverines on the field.

After the altercation ended, Bush tore up the Michigan State logo at midfield with his cleats. The grounds crew had to repair the field before the game could be played. The incident gained national attention, but privately NFL people loved what Bush did.

“That’s just me,” Bush said Friday at the Steelers’ facility on the South Side. “I was sticking up for my team, and I know my team would have done the same for me.”

No one at Michigan had a problem with it either, including his dad, who followed his son to the Wolverines and works as a defensive analyst for Harbaugh.

“Devin fell in love with the game,” Devin Sr. said. “There’s passion there. He’s competitive. It’s play after play after play. Devin has a really big heart. He loves his teammates. All of that came out in that game. It was a rivalry game. He won’t start it, but he’s going to stand up for his teammates.”

The Steelers have been searching for a player to quarterback their defense since Ryan Shazier suffered a spinal cord injury late in the 2017 season. In addition to Bush’s alpha male qualities, he has the football smarts to excel as a defensive signal caller, too.

Inside linebackers have the responsibility of getting the front seven aligned correctly. They not only must relay the defensive call to their teammates, but they have to quickly process information as the play develops. Some never develop a knack for the coordinated chaos, but Bush thrives in the throes of it.

“Some guys, in their preparation, you’d like to see them have more attention to detail,” Brown said. “This guy is a machine. He’s really on top of his craft. He’s a role model for other guys. He’s always responsible for the game plan. He makes all the checks. The guy just has unbelievable attention to detail.”

Born into the NFL

Devin Bush Sr. was Atlanta’s first-round draft pick (No. 26) overall in 1995. He played in the Super Bowl in consecutive years after the 1998 and 1999 seasons. His final season in Atlanta culminated with an NFC championship and an appearance in Super Bowl XXXIII against the Broncos.

The Falcons lost to the Broncos, but Bush made it back to the Super Bowl the following year after he signed with the St. Louis Rams. This time, he was on the winning side as the Rams beat the Titans, 23-16. His playing career ended two years later with a not-so-memorable playoff loss to the Steelers at Heinz Field.

Bush was not active for the AFC wild-card game, but he watched as the Steelers scored 15 points in the final 3:06 to complete an improbable comeback.

Devin Jr. was 4 when his father retired. It wasn’t long before Devin Sr. signed his son up for football. And it didn’t take very long for his father to realize Devin Jr. would someday follow in his footsteps.

“I watched him play in Little League, and I knew when he was 10 years old,” Devin Sr. said. “I saw his skill set. I recognized his instincts.”

Devin Sr. coached his son from the time he was in Little League all through high school in Broward County, Fla., where they won a state championship together when Devin Jr. was a senior at Flanagan High School.

Devin Sr. had his son play every position when he was growing up so he’d develop into versatile player. He was trained as a cornerback with a specific purpose.

“So he could master playing in space,” his dad said.

On offense, Devin Jr. played running back “so he could learn how to play with the ball in his hands.”

The training paid off by the time he got to Michigan, where he became a two-time All-American and the Big Ten defensive player of the year last fall. Brown, his old coach, calls Bush “a complete player.” Tomlin, his new coach, calls him a player for “all situations.”

It wasn’t always easy being coached by his father. Devin Sr. pushed his son to the limits. He coached him harder than any other player on his team, oftentimes bringing Devin Jr. to a breaking point.

It wasn’t until late in his high school years that Devin finally realized why his dad was so hard on him.

“It was very hard,” Devin Jr. said. “I’m not going to say it was a luxury in the beginning. In my dad’s eyes I probably wasn’t good at all. He pushed me super-hard. Sometimes he was really, really hard with me. I didn’t understand why. Sometimes I felt like I didn’t want to play football anymore. As I got older and as I understood what he was putting me through, he got me ready for moments like this.”

Ray Fittipaldo: rfittipaldo@post-gazette.com and Twitter @rayfitt1.

https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2019/04/26/devin-bush-steelers-introduction-nfl-draft-michigan-football/stories/201904260154
 
I said before the draft I didn't want Bush in the first and I still feel that way. I don't care about his clothing or the trade. My issue is his film. Most of his highlights are against some very bad Big 10 teams. The team you should watch him against is OSU. They are the best team Michigan faced all year and he was average at best in that game. They threw the ball against him and he took some really bad angles. I watch a ton of college football but he was almost non-existent in that game. Most of his tackles came 5+ yards down the field. The OSU OL ate him alive. Once he gets hit he moves backwards.

Maybe if he adds some weight it will help out. He does have speed to burn and he's an amazing athlete but his tape bothers me.
 
Agreed Vader..

If Mack Wilson or Gary Johnson are available at 66 ....Id take one of them..

And I say that not just because I'm not sold on Bush,...but Vince Williams play last year left alot to be desired IMO..
 
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I said before the draft I didn't want Bush in the first and I still feel that way. I don't care about his clothing or the trade. My issue is his film. Most of his highlights are against some very bad Big 10 teams. The team you should watch him against is OSU. They are the best team Michigan faced all year and he was average at best in that game. They threw the ball against him and he took some really bad angles. I watch a ton of college football but he was almost non-existent in that game. Most of his tackles came 5+ yards down the field. The OSU OL ate him alive. Once he gets hit he moves backwards.

Maybe if he adds some weight it will help out. He does have speed to burn and he's an amazing athlete but his tape bothers me.

Hopefully being surrounded by nfl talent will help him utilize his athleticism.
 
Omar are you referring to Edwards, or suggesting Bush will slide back to SS? Haven't seen much - if any - discussion about that. Seems like he's a Mack LB in our D, no?

i was joking, please don't take that post seriously.
 
I said before the draft I didn't want Bush in the first and I still feel that way. I don't care about his clothing or the trade. My issue is his film. Most of his highlights are against some very bad Big 10 teams. The team you should watch him against is OSU. They are the best team Michigan faced all year and he was average at best in that game. They threw the ball against him and he took some really bad angles. I watch a ton of college football but he was almost non-existent in that game. Most of his tackles came 5+ yards down the field. The OSU OL ate him alive. Once he gets hit he moves backwards.

Maybe if he adds some weight it will help out. He does have speed to burn and he's an amazing athlete but his tape bothers me.

yeah i made the strong safety quip based off how he doesn't seem to carry all that much weight; he better be living in the weight room these next 2-3 seasons.
 
They identified Devin Bush as a player who could become a leader on this D. That's what gave them the impetus to make the bold move to go get him, above and beyond his pure football skills.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“You’re going to get a complete player ... and a first-class individual.” - <a href="https://twitter.com/FBCoachDBrown?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@FBCoachDBrown</a> on <a href="https://twitter.com/_Dbush11?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@_Dbush11</a>. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/GoBlue?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#GoBlue</a> x <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLDraft?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLDraft</a> <a href="https://t.co/yHYJYzeWVy">pic.twitter.com/yHYJYzeWVy</a></p>— Michigan Football (@UMichFootball) <a href="https://twitter.com/UMichFootball/status/1120705949516353536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 23, 2019</a></blockquote>
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I read he was injured against Ohio State. When he left the game in the third quarter, they really took it to Michigan.

I didn't watch that game so I really don't know, and I don't know when in the game he was injured, these are just things that I read. All these guys have clunkers of games sometimes.
 
I read he was injured against Ohio State. When he left the game in the third quarter, they really took it to Michigan.

I didn't watch that game so I really don't know, and I don't know when in the game he was injured, these are just things that I read. All these guys have clunkers of games sometimes.

He was injured. No one has perfect games all season long. The point is the body of work over his collegiate career...
 
A lot of how a player performs at any level is also the system they're in. Does that system put them in the best position to compile counting stats? It's no secret I don't like Michigan, but even tough I feel like measurables are overrated, this kid has some off the charts stuff. Everything you see and hear speaks to his character and leadership as well. Right about now after the ******** fest we've just lived through, I'm good with making this a key part in any evaluation as well. I'm taking a wait and see on the entire draft class until we get to pre season game three, when your key players all play significant snaps.
 
He was injured. No one has perfect games all season long. The point is the body of work over his collegiate career...

The problem is that Michigan out talented most teams in the big ten. So the only measuring stick you have is OSU. Bush didn't play in the bowl game. This is Bush vs. OSU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUMLokcugNc

It's more than just a bad game. He gets absolutely engulfed by their OL. He can't diagnose their plays fast enough and the misdirection plays have him way out of position.

Here are all his plays against a horrible Michigan St. offense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z2VuUBu0ZI

He has 1 good hit (6 yards down the field) and 1 sack (unblocked). If you watch this you'll see 3 things. 1st How bad MSU's offense is because the QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. 2nd How Bush always goes for the first direction of the offense. 3rd if an OL gets his mitts on Bush he is done. He struggles to fight off blocks. I end up watching Winovich more than Bush.

Now i understand that he is a great leader and he'll keep his nose clean. But tape doesn't lie. He is going to struggle in the NFL unless the front can keep him clean. When you run a 2 DL system at times I don't see that happening. If NFL OL get their hands on him or even some TEs he won't sniff a tackle. He needs better technique and more strength. He is young so maybe he can grow into the role.
 
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