Steelers Trade up to get Bush

[Punxsutawney]

The problem is that Michigan out talented most teams in the big ten. So the only measuring stick you have is OSU. Bush didn't play in the bowl game. This is Bush vs. OSU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUMLokcugNc

It's more than just a bad game. He gets absolutely engulfed by their OL. He can't diagnose their plays fast enough and the misdirection plays have him way out of position.

Here are all his plays against a horrible Michigan St. offense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z2VuUBu0ZI

He has 1 good hit (6 yards down the field) and 1 sack (unblocked). If you watch this you'll see 3 things. 1st How bad MSU's offense is because the QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. 2nd How Bush always goes for the first direction of the offense. 3rd if an OL gets his mitts on Bush he is done. He struggles to fight off blocks. I end up watching Winovich more than Bush.

Now i understand that he is a great leader and he'll keep his nose clean. But tape doesn't lie. He is going to struggle in the NFL unless the front can keep him clean. When you run a 2 DL system at times I don't see that happening. If NFL OL get their hands on him or even some TEs he won't sniff a tackle. He needs better technique and more strength. He is young so maybe he can grow into the role.

The Steelers did not exactly get him for his run defense.

He could be a liability against a run-heavy offense, but those are going the way of the dinosaurs.

He'll be worth the pick, if he can consistently carry receivers 10-20 yards down the middle of the field, something they have lacked since Shazier's injury.

 

[Vader]

The Steelers did not exactly get him for his run defense.

He could be a liability against a run-heavy offense, but those are going the way of the dinosaurs.

He'll be worth the pick, if he can consistently carry receivers 10-20 yards down the middle of the field, something they have lacked since Shazier's injury.

They didn't even have it with Shazier. They won more games without him than they did with him. If you look at from the year he was drafted and all the times he was injured their winning percentage was higher when he was injured.

Now to Bush. He was picked #10 overall. 1 spot higher than Ben. He has to be great to be worth the pick... pro-bowl great. Also if you watch the tapes you'll see he has issues reading plays. That doesn't get easier on the NFL level. Plus you have to stop the run even today. Teams like the pats**** will run if 20 times in a row if you can't stop it. It also means that you have to move your safeties down into the box which makes passing easier. The idea that the running game is old school is a myth. It still allows teams to kill the clock and expose a physically light LB core. Just look at the running games in the division... you think Baltimore is going to throw 50 times a game? You ok with Bush running into the rats OL? What about the clowns? These aren't pass happy teams and will run it down your throat if you can't stop it.

 

[Scott109]

you think Baltimore is going to throw 50 times a game? You ok with Bush running into the rats OL?

No, I don’t see Lamar Jackson throwing it 50 times a game but with Bush’s sideline to sideline speed it will help to spy Jackson who has been running on everybody.

 

[Punxsutawney]

They didn't even have it with Shazier. They won more games without him than they did with him. If you look at from the year he was drafted and all the times he was injured their winning percentage was higher when he was injured.

Now to Bush. He was picked #10 overall. 1 spot higher than Ben. He has to be great to be worth the pick... pro-bowl great. Also if you watch the tapes you'll see he has issues reading plays. That doesn't get easier on the NFL level. Plus you have to stop the run even today. Teams like the pats**** will run if 20 times in a row if you can't stop it. It also means that you have to move your safeties down into the box which makes passing easier. The idea that the running game is old school is a myth. It still allows teams to kill the clock and expose a physically light LB core. Just look at the running games in the division... you think Baltimore is going to throw 50 times a game? You ok with Bush running into the rats OL? What about the clowns? These aren't pass happy teams and will run it down your throat if you can't stop it.

I'm mostly with you on Shazier. I feel he has been romanticized and overrated by fans due to the tragic nature of his injury, but he still was a valuable player that brought a unique dimension to the defense that they did not have last season.

I said earlier that Bush is going to need to be an elite level player to justify not only where he was picked but the additional picks the Steelers invested in him.

Stopping the run down is still important, and Bush will still need to at least be adequate in that area, but the league is so much more pass oriented than it was even 10-15 years ago.

The Steelers have struggled to cover the middle of the field, which is why they went after Bush so aggressively.

Like you, I have concerns about the pick. Bush needs to be more physical and disciplined, but the guy is ready to play now and has tremendous upside at the team's biggest need.

I would not have traded up for him, but he has the ability to make it a great move.

 

[Vader]

No, I don’t see Lamar Jackson throwing it 50 times a game but with Bush’s sideline to sideline speed it will help to spy Jackson who has been running on everybody.

Jackson isn't just a sideline to sideline runner. He's a straight ahead between the tackles runner. Plus he isn't what I'm worried about. It's the power running of the RBs with that OL and Jackson being a decoy. Bush always goes for first movement. In the NFL one step the wrong way and you're out of the play. Again watch the tape. He often takes the wrong first step. Hell sometimes he never sees where the play is going because he's focused on the misdirection. Several times he never actually saw the ball carrier during the entire play. You can get away with that when the entire team is playing against guys that will never sniff an NFL game. But you can't get away with that in the NFL. I don't care about highlight hits and making plays against SMU, Rutgers and Indiana.

Also he was shut out against Northwestern with 1 assist and 0 solo tackles. Remember everybody ******* because the Steelers aren't creating turnovers and need more pass defenses. Sacks aren't the issue right. So then why get a guy that has 0 Forced fumbles, 11 pass defended, and 1 interception in 3 years of college football?

 

[steel dino]

Vader...I am with you 100% on Bush for what its worth...

Fantastic 100% accurate analysis on him...sorry to say.

Hope were both wrong...but I doubt it.

 

[Vader]

Vader...I am with you 100% on Bush for what its worth...

Fantastic 100% accurate analysis on him...sorry to say.

Hope were both wrong...but I doubt it.

I could easily be wrong on what he does in the NFL. I'm not wrong on his tape. Some players can be coached better than others and sometimes it takes younger player time to develop. I think Bush is only 20. He could be a great ILB. Nobody knows until it happens. All I can go on is his tape against real competition. I would loved to have seen him against Florida with their speed and power. The problem for college football is going forward so many players won't play in the bowl games. It's going to make draft analysis even more difficult.

Bush reminds me of an all or nothing guy. If he reads the play correctly and doesn't get blocked then he has the speed to destroy a play. But if he is wrong? You'll see celebrations in your endzone. Or at best huge gaps up the middle.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Now that the draft is over, this is what i feared when the trade was made. Losing the 2nd rounder meant something wasn't getting fixed and you were pushing everything down a round

The biggest needs were ILB, CB, S, TE and OLB

I did think that they needed a WR but with this draft being so loaded at the position, i felt that was the one position you could let slide just a bit. Unless they think Washington is a total miss.

As it turns out they did not draft a Safety and they left OLB until the 6th round where they got a few guys who may not even make the team.

Benny Snell will be a solid player but guys like LJ Scott of Mich State and Karan Higdon of Mich went undrafted. I can't see prioritizing a workhorse RB over a pass rusher or safety. I think a Benny Snell type RB could have been had later or even after the draft.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

No, I don’t see Lamar Jackson throwing it 50 times a game but with Bush’s sideline to sideline speed it will help to spy Jackson who has been running on everybody.

Lamar Jackson? He's Trace McSorley's backup

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

The problem is that Michigan out talented most teams in the big ten. So the only measuring stick you have is OSU. Bush didn't play in the bowl game. This is Bush vs. OSU:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUMLokcugNc

It's more than just a bad game. He gets absolutely engulfed by their OL. He can't diagnose their plays fast enough and the misdirection plays have him way out of position.

Here are all his plays against a horrible Michigan St. offense:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z2VuUBu0ZI

He has 1 good hit (6 yards down the field) and 1 sack (unblocked). If you watch this you'll see 3 things. 1st How bad MSU's offense is because the QB couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. 2nd How Bush always goes for the first direction of the offense. 3rd if an OL gets his mitts on Bush he is done. He struggles to fight off blocks. I end up watching Winovich more than Bush.

Now i understand that he is a great leader and he'll keep his nose clean. But tape doesn't lie. He is going to struggle in the NFL unless the front can keep him clean. When you run a 2 DL system at times I don't see that happening. If NFL OL get their hands on him or even some TEs he won't sniff a tackle. He needs better technique and more strength. He is young so maybe he can grow into the role.

Bama has much more talent than any other SEC team and Clemson was probably the only team to match them talent wise. Should we only look at them getting smashed by Clemson to evaluate their players?

 

[Vader]

Bama has much more talent than any other SEC team and Clemson was probably the only team to match them talent wise. Should we only look at them getting smashed by Clemson to evaluate their players?

Yes, we should. I want to look at the tape to see how they matched up against players that will be in the NFL. Also I didn't just use the OSU game to evaluate Bush. I also looked at other games and even listed the MSU game and Northwestern. So if I can't look at multiple games and bowl games WTF I'm I suppose to look at? Bush had 1 smack down hit and 1 unblocked sack against MSU.

Again I thought the problem was lack of turnovers and pass breakups? Right? Then why take a guy that doesn't do those things? He had 1 pick and 11 deflections with 0 FF in 3 years. And that is against teams like Indiana, SMU, Western Michigan ETC...

 

[Vader]

You want to know who Bush reminds me of? Jarvis Jones. Just look at their stats:

Jarvis Jones: 168 Total Tackles 45.5 TFL 28 Sacks 2 FF

Devin Bush: 172 Total Tackles 18.5 TFL 10 Sacks 1 FF

After looking at the stats Jones blows Bush out of the water on TFL and sacks....

 

[ark steel]

Bushdong?