Who don't you want in round one?

[Fiji Mariner]

You can't draft BPA if you don't know what a particular position has. This is due diligence in stacking a draft board, a reason the Steelers generally draft better than 90%of the league.

I think it is likely a run on 5-6 QBs happens and a player with top 15 talent drops, hopefully the Steelers know who that player is because we all know they will sprinting up to the board with pick in hand about 15 seconds into their time on the clock.

Would be damn sweet if that player was a ball hawk safety, ILB or NT

 

[ark steel]

Let NO ONE ON THIS SITE forget how we got torched for 45 in our final game...................

Except, the Defense didnt get torched for 45...

 

[ark steel]

Without a huge drop by a player, i dont want an OLB, QB, RB, OL , TE or WR.

I think the signing of the GB S drops safety from being a "need" at #28. if he is BPA and you'd have to reach for some other position, then go for it. If the decision is between an ILB and S that are relatively rated the same, pass on the S.

 

[Lloyds legend]

I'd be pissed if we took a QB in the first.

I don't think we'd need to be Browns level of suck in order to get a pick better suited to grab our next QB.

Fix the D.

 

[Ike Kelly]

We'll see if the Steelers pick up the 5th year option on Dupree. The top pass rushers will be gone by pick #28, I think. The defense has bigger problems than Dupree. If a top 15 pass rusher falls, I'd say maybe OLB.

ILB, S, DT/NT to me are more of a need than OLB.

I dont know when the deadline for this is, but I hope it isnt until the end of the year, or close to it, for him to show some more. I think he has what it takes, but needs some better coaching.

I think the FO has like 12 days left to make a decision

If a team designates the 5th year option on a player at anytime during the regular season they can remove it. That is unless the player gets injured, then the 5th year is guaranteed (Like Shazier). So if Dupreee isn't producing at a level that warrants the option it can be removed and he will be a FA at the end of the year.

In any case, OLB is in the cards somewhere. They also have Adams from last year who looked promising until getting hurt.

 

[thesteelcity]

If Mason Rudolph is there in the 1st round when the Steelers pick, would you hate the pick?

 

[Drink IRON City]

If a team designates the 5th year option on a player at anytime during the regular season they can remove it. That is unless the player gets injured, then the 5th year is guaranteed (Like Shazier). So if Dupreee isn't producing at a level that warrants the option it can be removed and he will be a FA at the end of the year.

In any case, OLB is in the cards somewhere. They also have Adams from last year who looked promising until getting hurt.

Ike, two questions, which I'm sure have been answered, but if you could give me your take on them

1.). If both EVENS & Vander are available 1st rnd and their "value" merit it, which do you take and why??

2.). IF BPA turns out to be a QB in the first round who do you think it would be and would you take him???

Thanks for your input.




Salute the nation

 

[bermudasteel]

I want a player from Bama. Payne, Harrison or Evans. I could live with Van Esche. If tgey went best running back Id be ok. No qb thanks.

Nuff said...I strongly dislike the VanEsch option...

Please say NO to Rahsaan Evans. He is hiding his desk regarding running a 40. Also, there is zero chance he stays as clean behind the line as a pro as he he was able to do on an uber recruited Alabama team. Say NO.

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Nope - I disagree...if he clears medically - we get Timmons Pt. II immediately...

Ike, two questions, which I'm sure have been answered, but if you could give me your take on them

1.). If both EVENS & Vander are available 1st rnd and their "value" merit it, which do you take and why??

2.). IF BPA turns out to be a QB in the first round who do you think it would be and would you take him???

Thanks for your input.




Salute the nation

1. Evans
2. Jackson

 

[Ike Kelly]

Ike, two questions, which I'm sure have been answered, but if you could give me your take on them

1.). If both EVENS & Vander are available 1st rnd and their "value" merit it, which do you take and why??

2.). IF BPA turns out to be a QB in the first round who do you think it would be and would you take him???

Thanks for your input.




Salute the nation

Drink,

Both Evans and LVE have their strengths and weaknesses based upon the ad nauseam conversations by talking heads and the free presses of draft guides. I don’t prognosticate players because I don’t take the time to immerse myself in watching film and diagnosing the players trends and performances. I just don’t have the time. I am appreciative of the guys that really do the bare bones work and take the time to really evaluate.

Having said that there are a couple professionals who IMO do good work in talent evaluation. Mayock is one, there are a couple other guys too. I am only talking about evaluation too. Not draft predictions because other than the top 5, no one really knows anything.

It’s a pipe dream, but I would want Smith....LOL. He could replace Ryan at the 80th percentile.

Based on several evaluations I’ve read, Evans or LVE would appear to be solid as off the ball backers. Evans probably could be like C.J. Mosley and that’s the problem. Folks talk about Mosley, but if you’ve seen him play you have seen him make plays in games and disappear in games. Evans could be that, but he would be a solid player. Him not running the 40 is curious, but this may have been discussed already with teams. KC has already said, 40 times are not the indicator they primarily use for speed evaluations. Game tape is. It just seems that way because Gorshack runs the 40times at the combine.

I don’t think he will be Jarvis 2.0. He has way more strength than Jarvis did and all the literature has him having much better instincts. Plus nothing can compare to playing the SEC schedule.

LVE looks tremendous at the backer position. I just have one problem, and all the evaluators mention this. Why only one year of production? What changed? How did the light turn on? Every evaluation I’ve read on LVE says he has the ability to be a productive tackler and a solid coverage backer. But will he be? He will need work running through trash but most rookie LBs do. But there is that Scott Shields scenario that sticks in my mind. KC hits home runs in the first and it’s usually with power 5 conferences.

They could get one of the top Safeties and grab one of those quick Inside backers later. I wouldn’t have a problem with it at all if they did. I don’t think they are going to find another Shazier, but they can do the same with a fast backer and cover safety.

As for QBs.....we have no chance for those top guys. If Rudolph is available in the second, I could see them grabbing him. The kid from Louisville....too many questions are generated by the evaluators and I think someone will reach for him in the first. He has to be placed in a good situation, like Prescott and Wilson. Otherwise I don’t think he would be a good fit for this offense.

It’s my observation and only mine. Some may agree, many others will not which is perfectly fine. In any case, there are almost 300 players in this draft, I think KC and company will get at least 5 good players to help this team. You can’t ask more than that.


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[Drink IRON City]

THANKS IKE !!!!

I think the stregnth of opponent is a BIG factor thus the ILB choice. As for QB in first round I hardly think that will happen and I don't think there is a need this year. Some may quote KC as saying what he said at the QB position but they won't reach as there won't be a VALUE worthy QB there at 28. LVE could be a one year wonder / decided to do the steroid thing / or stregnth of opponent / finally the light turned on but how will that translate into the NFL.......... I'm not an evaluator so that will be left to the big boys. AGAIN Ike, thanks for your input.




Salute the nation

 

[Ike Kelly]

Drink, I agree that’s the key. Performance in big games or against teams in the power 5 is the difference. For the 1st round at least. Beyond the first round they have more latitude to find guys fits their system.

All these metrics, strength/speed/jumping that the combine showcases, all secondary in KC and Tomlin’s evals. Performance on actual game tape is what they are looking at. Are they good football players? That’s the biggest evaluation tool and it’s been working since KC started in 2000.

I agree with your comments about the QB position. They won’t reach for one, but they are thinking about the QBs this year. If one was to fall to them at the right place. We know about Rudolph, but there are others.

The biggest question IMO is RB. While at this time I still think there is a 50/50 chance a deal gets done, if they find a guy who fits the mold of Bell say in the 2nd or 3rd....we will have a billion threads started by Coach. It will be interesting to say the least.


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[kev4heels]

For me, it's not who I don't want, but which position I don't want.
We should be picking from: ILB, FS, OLB, DT and RB. That's it.
If we take a QB, something better leak soon after the draft that Ben
is retiring after the year. Taking a QB to sit on the bench for 3 years is downright dumb.

 

[Coach]

LVE looks tremendous at the backer position. I just have one problem, and all the evaluators mention this. Why only one year of production? What changed? How did the light turn on? Every evaluation I’ve read on LVE says he has the ability to be a productive tackler and a solid coverage backer. But will he be? He will need work running through trash but most rookie LBs do. But there is that Scott Shields scenario that sticks in my mind. KC hits home runs in the first and it’s usually with power 5 conferences.

TJ Watt essentially had one year of production too. Just saying. If LVE had two years of production excellent production, he's going sooner. Urlacher had two years at LB in the WAC conference. Sheilds was a bad pick at safety. I'd rather compare a linebacker to a linebacker.

As for QBs.....we have no chance for those top guys. If Rudolph is available in the second, I could see them grabbing him.

I like Rudolph, and if Ben said this was his last season would consider him with our first round pick. With 4 QB's will be picked before the 12th pick of this draft, the teams wanting a quarterback will likely pick Rudolph before our pick in round two. I doubt he'll be a Steeler. I'm okay with him in round two and would quickly say yes in round three

 

[thesteelcity]

I can't see Rudolph or Jackson lasting to our 2nd round pick. If they want either of them, they would have to pick him in the first or move up in the 2nd, if they are there. No way they make it to the 3rd round. I don't feel it's a need YET, but if either one of them is Ben's heir apparent, then you go get him. If you can wait until next year, then sure up the needs in this draft. I think RB is more of a need than QB, as Bell is more likely not to be here next year than Ben.

 

[Drink IRON City]

For me, it's not who I don't want, but which position I don't want.
We should be picking from: ILB, FS, OLB, DT and RB. That's it.
If we take a QB, something better leak soon after the draft that Ben
is retiring after the year. Taking a QB to sit on the bench for 3 years is downright dumb.

True on the QB position but being set on the other positions of your mentioning, means we are targeting. If the BPA happens to be one of those positions then by all means go for it.
If one of those positions and BPA are relatively close in value then yes but PLEASE don't reach just for a position of need. ALL this pertains to first round pick after that near anything
goes.


Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

Drink, I agree that’s the key. Performance in big games or against teams in the power 5 is the difference. For the 1st round at least. Beyond the first round they have more latitude to find guys fits their system.

All these metrics, strength/speed/jumping that the combine showcases, all secondary in KC and Tomlin’s evals. Performance on actual game tape is what they are looking at. Are they good football players? That’s the biggest evaluation tool and it’s been working since KC started in 2000.

I agree with your comments about the QB position. They won’t reach for one, but they are thinking about the QBs this year. If one was to fall to them at the right place. We know about Rudolph, but there are others.

The biggest question IMO is RB. While at this time I still think there is a 50/50 chance a deal gets done, if they find a guy who fits the mold of Bell say in the 2nd or 3rd....we will have a billion threads started by Coach. It will be interesting to say the least.


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Agree Ike, combine speed and game speed don't always equate to the same. Take that Archer kid, the 108 page thread, he was the fastest combine 40 yet couldn't translate that to the field of play.
There definitely are better examples but for the sake of humor I used Dri as my example. JuJu is another who isn't the fastest at the combine but has tremendous on field speed. Game tape evaluation
of in game on field display of speed is what is most important then compare that with strength of opponent. I see ILB / NT / S as our first round pick provided value is there.


Salute the nation

 

[steel dino]

Taven Bryan or De'Ron Payne.

 

[Coach]

Taven Bryan or De'Ron Payne.

I think Payne would be an upgrade over Hargrave big time. The question is, is he a true three down player or not? I'd take Payne is the top ILB's and S's worth the pick are off the board.

Our middle of the defense DT/NT, ILB, and S is soft.

 

[Coach]

Agree Ike, combine speed and game speed don't always equate to the same. Take that Archer kid, the 108 page thread, he was the fastest combine 40 yet couldn't translate that to the field of play.
There definitely are better examples but for the sake of humor I used Dri as my example. JuJu is another who isn't the fastest at the combine but has tremendous on field speed. Game tape evaluation
of in game on field display of speed is what is most important then compare that with strength of opponent. I see ILB / NT / S as our first round pick provided value is there.


Salute the nation

Archer was very small, and hard to deploy. He had many drawbacks to his game. I did not like the pick at all. Now it he was 6 feet tall and 20 pounds heavier who could be a feature back or receiver, that changes things.

As it was he was mostly a Kick return guy.

 

[Coryea]

Except, the Defense didnt get torched for 45...

35 by a **** offense that could only score one TD the previous two weeks.

Using a #1 pick on a QB when you've been very close to getting to the Super Bowl when you have big needs on D is dumb IMO.
ILB is a huge need for us, Vince and Bostic are basically the same guy, regardless of what his highlights show. Vince is in his final year, and Bostic is only signed for two seasons. Our ILBs are horrible in pass coverage, and running sideline to sideline. They are both very good attacking down hill, but teams rarely play that straight ahead game anymore. Chicago and Jax did alot of damage running outside the tackles.

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[CorpusDsteelers]

I want Derwin James !!!!

 

[Ike Kelly]

TJ Watt essentially had one year of production too. Just saying. If LVE had two years of production excellent production, he's going sooner. Urlacher had two years at LB in the WAC conference. Sheilds was a bad pick at safety. I'd rather compare a linebacker to a linebacker.



I like Rudolph, and if Ben said this was his last season would consider him with our first round pick. With 4 QB's will be picked before the 12th pick of this draft, the teams wanting a quarterback will likely pick Rudolph before our pick in round two. I doubt he'll be a Steeler. I'm okay with him in round two and would quickly say yes in round three

You comparing Watt to LVE is in applicable and only strengthens the LVE question. Watt was a TE and had a blown knee early at Wisconsin. When he recovered he was asked to switch to defense as a red shirt sophomore played in 8 games, then had a great Jr. season.

LVE was a walk on at Boise St. redshirted and then got a scholarship. He was a LB all four years played three years in games. He was given the scholarship because of potential as a redshirt. Didn’t breakout until his Jr year. That’s the question all the seasoned evaluators are asking...what predicated his rise? Scheme, more dedication? (which opens another door of speculation). Watt had two years and contributed in a power 5 conference. LVE had 4 years and only contributed 1.5 in a FBS school. Lots of questions. Is the gamble worth it? History shows KC won’t bite because of intangibles.

Scott Shields was used as an example because of his tremendous combine performance. Which wowed everyone. Similar to LVE. Doesn’t mean he will be like Shields, but does the limited tape on LVE show production in all games and areas to check boxes off of. We shall see. But BPA is the hallmark of KC drafts.

Personally it doesn’t matter anyway, as Dallas will probably draft him as Sean Lee’s replacement. I could see the Pack getting him too.

Rudolph will not last to the 3rd....you are out of your mind to think so. If he was to fall to mid 2nd, Pitt could make a play. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he went in the first....to NE no less.


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[Coach]

TJ Watt essentially had one year of production too. Just saying. If LVE had two years of production excellent production, he's going sooner. Urlacher had two years at LB in the WAC conference. Sheilds was a bad pick at safety. I'd rather compare a linebacker to a linebacker.



I like Rudolph, and if Ben said this was his last season would consider him with our first round pick. With 4 QB's will be picked before the 12th pick of this draft, the teams wanting a quarterback will likely pick Rudolph before our pick in round two. I doubt he'll be a Steeler. I'm okay with him in round two and would quickly say yes in round three

You comparing Watt to LVE is in applicable and only strengthens the LVE question. Watt was a TE and had a blown knee early at Wisconsin. When he recovered he was asked to switch to defense as a red shirt sophomore played in 8 games, then had a great Jr. season.

LVE was a walk on at Boise St. redshirted and then got a scholarship. He was a LB all four years played three years in games. He was given the scholarship because of potential as a redshirt. Didn’t breakout until his Jr year. That’s the question all the seasoned evaluators are asking...what predicated his rise? Scheme, more dedication? (which opens another door of speculation). Watt had two years and contributed in a power 5 conference. LVE had 4 years and only contributed 1.5 in a FBS school. Lots of questions. Is the gamble worth it? History shows KC won’t bite because of intangibles.

Scott Shields was used as an example because of his tremendous combine performance. Which wowed everyone. Similar to LVE. Doesn’t mean he will be like Shields, but does the limited tape on LVE show production in all games and areas to check boxes off of. We shall see. But BPA is the hallmark of KC drafts.

Personally it doesn’t matter anyway, as Dallas will probably draft him as Sean Lee’s replacement. I could see the Pack getting him too.

Rudolph will not last to the 3rd....you are out of your mind to think so. If he was to fall to mid 2nd, Pitt could make a play. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he went in the first....to NE no less.


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Re-read what I said on Rudolph again please. He's a late round one to round two type of prospect, likely off the board before we pick in round two.

Shields was never fast. He ran a 4.55 at the combine as a DB, VDE is a 1/10th of a second slower, but 20+ pounds heavier.

 

[GRBman]

Any player not named Roquan Smith... I want this kid, I know he probably won't be available, but I don't care.

 

[Ike Kelly]

TJ Watt essentially had one year of production too. Just saying. If LVE had two years of production excellent production, he's going sooner. Urlacher had two years at LB in the WAC conference. Sheilds was a bad pick at safety.....

I like Rudolph, and if Ben said this was his last season would consider him with our first round pick. With 4 QB's will be picked before the 12th pick of this draft, the teams wanting a quarterback will likely pick Rudolph before our pick in round two. I doubt he'll be a Steeler. I'm okay with him in round two and would quickly say yes in round three


Re-read what I said on Rudolph again please. He's a late round one to round two type of prospect, likely off the board before we pick in round two.

Shields was never fast. He ran a 4.55 at the combine as a DB, VDE is a 1/10th of a second slower, but 20+ pounds heavier.

TJ played 2 years of defensive edge rushing play, in 2 years of opportunity. Plus he played against Power 5 conference teams. LVE has had 4 years opportunity and only produced 1.5 years at the same position at a lower competitive conference.

You are comparing a player from 15-20 years ago from a small school/conference to now? Poor example as college ball was much different than it is now. True Urlacher only played meaning full ball as a junior and Senior, and was used sparingly as Fr/So, mainly because of a coaching change. The new coaching staff enabled Urlacher to become a star at UNM. Becoming an All-American, playing both defense and offense and special teams. Scores several offensive TDs ans I want to say he even had a couple of kick returns for TDs. He was an all purpose player and a Jim Thorpe finalist. I remember that vividly. He could do anything. Can’t remember if he made the final 4 in the Heisman, but I remember he was in the running. Finally he was a top 10 pick. LVE doesn’t even come close to his accolades, so please don’t insult yourself with the comparison.

On the different era comparison model you follow, Shields was a 6.4 225+ lbs FS that ran a 4.5 at the combine. And back in the late 90s (1999) that was a tremendous time for his size. Fast forward almost 20 years...you have DLs running as fast as he did. Players are bigger faster than 20 years ago Sherlock, so naturally LVE has better combine measurables.

As for your QB comments....

You re-read what you said about Rudolph. You say he’s a late 1 or rd 2 player...and YOU would be OK WITH HIM IN ROUND 2 AND QUICKLY SAY YES IN ROUND THREE. So you have implied he could be a 3rd rounder. Dream on, he is more likely a 1st rounder the way the media is pushing these QBs up the board.


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