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Stan Savran just said....

antdrewjosh

antdrewjosh

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So im listening to Stan's show and the topic is what should be done with Martavis. He goes on to say that he has been around both and that Bill Cowher is more of a players coach then Mike Tomlin. Surprising considering that is definitely not the view held here and with alot of fans.
 
Coryea said:
There's nothing wrong with being a players coach as long as they know you'll come down hard if need be.

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That is definitely not the perception held by alot of people. Its used as a negative towards Tomlin
 
antdrewjosh said:
That is definitely not the perception held by alot of people. Its used as a negative towards Tomlin
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True, I do think Cowher was a better overall coach, IMO, but I was glad they took Tomlin over Grimm and Whiz.
It's tough on Tomlin with social media, the fans see and hear everything now. I mean the people bitching about ABs Facebook live thing, which was disrespectful and idiotic, but what did they wanr Tomlin to do bench him for the AFCCG? Same with Bryant, people want him benched, and with juju in protocol, we are suddenly without our #2 and #3 guy.
It's way to hard to compare because of social media

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antdrewjosh said:
So im listening to Stan's show and the topic is what should be done with Martavis. He goes on to say that he has been around both and that Bill Cowher is more of a players coach then Mike Tomlin. Surprising considering that is definitely not the view held here and with alot of fans.
Click to expand...

Bill Cowher to me was a better player's coach, but he also had the ability to pull a player aside when needed during the game. Tomlin isn't as approachable with his dark shades and often just points. Mike's sideline coaching is very limited.

For whatever reason, Cowher seemed more respected by his players. Cowher also was more animated and seemed to motivate his guys / get his guys to focus a bit better, and because of this I think lost less to .500 and below teams.
 
I think the negative connotation of players coach implies you aren't an X's and O's guy which I think is what most people around here want. Since Tomlin is not an X's and O's guy, you would think that he must be a players coach then.

But just because Cower was more so doesn't mean Tomlin isn't.
 
Thank you Jesus!
I thought this was going to be another "Martavis" thread!
 
Coach said:
Bill Cowher to me was a better player's coach, but he also had the ability to pull a player aside when needed during the game. Tomlin isn't as approachable with his dark shades and often just points. Mike's sideline coaching is very limited.

For whatever reason, Cowher seemed more respected by his players. Cowher also was more animated and seemed to motivate his guys / get his guys to focus a bit better, and because of this I think lost less to .500 and below teams.
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You really need to read more things from people who are closer to the team instead of making up things
 
To be fair Stan's opinion is just that. He might be right he might be wrong.

Hard to tell when none of us are in that locker room game in and game out.

the take on Tomlin came from social media with the selfies/ fair or not it is where it came from......................
 
slashsteel said:
To be fair Stan's opinion is just that. He might be right he might be wrong.

Hard to tell when none of us are in that locker room game in and game out.

the take on Tomlin came from social media with the selfies/ fair or not it is where it came from......................
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That perception did not start there been there for awhile now. And you are correct it is just his opinion. Also its not only that its said its said as a negative to his coaching
 
antdrewjosh said:
That perception did not start there been there for awhile now. And you are correct it is just his opinion. Also its not only that its said its said as a negative to his coaching
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Erase some of those embarrassing Bear/Jag type losses and you would be amazed how the fans quiet down on every perception...............
 
And I'm sure the definition of a "players coach" is different for each person

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slashsteel said:
Erase some of those embarrassing Bear/Jag type losses and you would be amazed how the fans quiet down on every perception...............
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Perhaps
 
Cowher used to get in guys faces if they messed up. Tomlin just stands there with a blank stare or he may point to his head. Problem is you rarely see Tomlin coaching someone up on the sideline. I think that certain teams need certain types of coaches depending on the makeup of the team. Not sure how smart (coaching wise) someone like porter is, but I think the young guys on defense benefit from his attitude. Tony Dungy had a demeanor similar to Tomlin, but was a much better X and O's guy. I honestly cant recall ever hearing Tomlin break down a play with technical coach speak.
 
DK: There has to be something you three have in common, to be able to take an NFL field, even in training camp, and perform and produce like you have? Never mind football skill. Take me beyond that. There’s got to be something in common.

Artie: Yeah, there is. It’s Coach T.

DK: Tomlin? How?

Artie: Definitely. It doesn’t matter if you’re a young guy or an old guy, he never minimizes your role. I think that’s something all of us felt the first time we were in Latrobe. He’ll treat the youngest guy like the oldest guy. The only thing he wants out of either one is that you’re out there producing. So if you’re a young guy and you see that right away, that gives you confidence. Now you’re not just a college kid walking into an NFL camp. You’re a football player, same as you’ve always been.

DK: Hm. I didn’t think that’d be your answer. Good stuff. Same feeling around Coach Lake? He played in an era when defensive rookies wouldn’t even look at the field.
 
DK: You know, you mentioned earlier, Mike, that you respected how Coach Tomlin and the staff welcomed you even though you didn’t come with all the bells and whistles of the Draft and Combine … tell me when you really believed. Not when you thought you believed. When you really believed you could get this chance.

Mike Hilton: Really believed, huh? Give me a second.

DK: Sure.

Mike: Really, really believe? I’ve got you: It was a couple weeks into camp. After the first preseason game against the Giants. I felt like they knew what I could do, but you know, you can’t be sure. Coach Tomlin asked me to step into his office and sat me down. I didn’t know what was going on. I didn’t think I was in trouble or anything. And just looked me in the eye and said, ‘Mike, just keep doing what you’re doing. Don’t try to do too much. Just go out there and be yourself.’ I just took it and ran with it.

DK: What did that mean?

Mike: Everything. Man, you’ve got to understand, that’s Mike Tomlin. That’s a guy every football person in the world knows. He’s bigger than life when you meet him. And he’s pulling me aside to tell me to just be me? Solo-dolo? Are you kidding? I just ran with it.

DK: Still running.

Mike: Still running. Don’t stop now.

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2017/10/25/midweek-reader/
 
I think people underestimate Tomlin's X and Os because he's a defensive guy, and when he came in here, he pretty much took an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" attitude with regard to Dick Lebeau, and the defense, which of course was the correct stance to take. People are underestimating how much the current defense is Tomlin's defense, as opposed to Butler's. Also, I think in the current pass happy NFL, it is much easier to have games where you lay an egg, than it was back in the run run, avoid turnovers, field position era that you had during most of Cowher's run. Just look around the league at some of the head scratching results you've seen this season. Cowher also had very limited quarterbacks during most of his run, which led to him being fairly conservative, which works well against inferior teams. When Cowher thought he had a real qb with Maddox, and opened up the passing game, you got the 2002 Houston abomination, which was as horrible as any bad Tomlin loss, as well as the 2003 season, where Cowher had losses to 3 different 12 loss teams, as well as a 5-11 Browns team. Take those losses away, and we win the division. Of course we don't get Ben either, so it worked out. The conservative, run run, field position game works very well during the regular season, as it tens to minimize losses to inferior teams, but it doesn't seem to work so well in the playoffs, as we saw with all of Mary's. and Cowher's failures prior to Ben.
 
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Cowher was absolutely a players coach. Problem with Bill is his 3 yards and a cloud of dust offensive game plans. It wasn't until Ben came along that he busted out of the run run pass offense. Even with that we rode the Bus and Parker to SB XL. Ben had a terrible game in the SB but he is the reason the team beat Denver and got up early against Indy and yes outplayed Carson Palmer before he got Kimo'd out of that game.
 
Coach said:
Bill Cowher to me was a better player's coach, but he also had the ability to pull a player aside when needed during the game. Tomlin isn't as approachable with his dark shades and often just points. Mike's sideline coaching is very limited.

For whatever reason, Cowher seemed more respected by his players. Cowher also was more animated and seemed to motivate his guys / get his guys to focus a bit better, and because of this I think lost less to .500 and below teams.
Click to expand...

It’s your opinion, but you must have forgotten the boisterous Cowher when he was at Cleveland with Marty and then followed him to KC as the DC. Cowher was then in players faces, being a animated motivator like the Jeff Fisher and Art Shell coordinators at the time. When he took the Steelers HC position he brought that fiery personality which awoken the old time Steeler way. Tough as nails, emotionally charged, and my way or the highway mentality. It breathed new life into the franchise. With all the chin music, profanity laced spittle throwing and photo shoving in referees pocket outbursts.,However, after several years, Cowher settled down this approach and was more measured on the sidelines. His wife had a role in it, since his daughters were teenagers and he realized that the outburst image wasn’t a good one for them. But this was only while on the sidelines and during press conferences. You listen to the Cowher players from the late 90s and early 2000s, he was in players faces at practices (when it matters) and in locker rooms.

MT seems to have followed suit. He was animated (not as much as the Chin), but has become measured in his approach in games and press conferences. I’ve been to several training camps both with Cowher and Tomlin. MT definitely more intense. I see the players respect with fondness towards Tomlin about the same as they did with Cowher.

But is my opinion. Regardless if the coach is wearing shades. Del Rio wears shades. John Fox.....the list goes on.


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Hines57 said:
Cowher was absolutely a players coach. Problem with Bill is his 3 yards and a cloud of dust offensive game plans. It wasn't until Ben came along that he busted out of the run run pass offense. Even with that we rode the Bus and Parker to SB XL. Ben had a terrible game in the SB but he is the reason the team beat Denver and got up early against Indy and yes outplayed Carson Palmer before he got Kimo'd out of that game.
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If you want an example of a guy who wasn't a players coach, Tom Coughlin is it.
 
Ike Kelly said:
It’s your opinion, but you must have forgotten the boisterous Cowher when he was at Cleveland with Marty and then followed him to KC as the DC. Cowher was then in players faces, being a animated motivator like the Jeff Fisher and Art Shell coordinators at the time. When he took the Steelers HC position he brought that fiery personality which awoken the old time Steeler way. Tough as nails, emotionally charged, and my way or the highway mentality. It breathed new life into the franchise. With all the chin music, profanity laced spittle throwing and photo shoving in referees pocket outbursts.,However, after several years, Cowher settled down this approach and was more measured on the sidelines. His wife had a role in it, since his daughters were teenagers and he realized that the outburst image wasn’t a good one for them. But this was only while on the sidelines and during press conferences. You listen to the Cowher players from the late 90s and early 2000s, he was in players faces at practices (when it matters) and in locker rooms.

MT seems to have followed suit. He was animated (not as much as the Chin), but has become measured in his approach in games and press conferences. I’ve been to several training camps both with Cowher and Tomlin. MT definitely more intense. I see the players respect with fondness towards Tomlin about the same as they did with Cowher.

But is my opinion. Regardless if the coach is wearing shades. Del Rio wears shades. John Fox.....the list goes on.


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Both Cowher, and Tomlin are/were highly respected by players around the league. Free agents came here to play for Bill because of what they'd heard, and if you don't think Tomlin's rep didn't play a role in getting Joe Haden to come here, and for less money, well, I don't know what to tell you.
 
antdrewjosh said:
You really need to read more things from people who are closer to the team instead of making up things
Click to expand...

Maybe you should read what players have said about playing down to the level of mediocre to bad opponents. Its a Tomlin hallmark. Data agrees with me.

We have a team full of diva's in case you aren't following. That did not happen under Cowher to the degree it is happening now. Why is this so?
 
Coach said:
Maybe you should read what players have said about playing down to the level of mediocre to bad opponents. Its a Tomlin hallmark. Data agrees with me.

We have a team full of diva's in case you aren't following. That did not happen under Cowher to the degree it is happening now. Why is this so?
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Post it. Post one article where any player contribute the losses to coaching..
 
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