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What was the arguing about on the sideline?

Cope said:
Tomlin has a ton of responsibility, He actually called it. At 7 sec, and was infuriated that A) the Refs didn't correctly credit his time and B) that Ben lacked the game awareness to call timeout. Here's the worst part of Ben's game awareness, they HAD to call the timeout, and if it wasn't for Tomlin, Ben would have watched dumbfounded as the clock ran out. I honestly don't know what Ben was thinking and why he couldn't react to the game situation like most HOF QBs.

And Ark is right. QBing a play is running the play as the QB. The QB took the handoff. And I do have to correct myself, Ben actually started that play with 12sec, not 11. But def not 7 or 8. He was too busy not calling a timeout at 8 and 7 seconds...
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How do you, I, or anyone not on the team know what directives Tomlin or Haley have given Ben with regards to the clock in that situation? I am not going to fault the QB for not calling a TO on the field unless I know for a fact that he was told to call it. For all we know, Ben could have assumed that since we called the running play the intention was to kick the FG if Bell doesn't get in and he was milking the clock down so Cincy didn't get a chance to return a kick.
 
The deal is, at 12 seconds and a TO, you have time, technically, to run two plays and get the FG on the field as long as both plays are not a running play AND there are no **** ups. It is tight, but, clearly, doable as the running play was over at 7 seconds. The bigger problem would have been if there had been a big pile that got pushed for a couple of seconds, then tackled short, leaving too little or no time. You KNOW the bengals are expecting two passes.

You have one of the top RB's and WR in the league and a franchise QB. You can pass twice (as long as there are no int's or sacks....) . You can run, call TO and then pass. Obviously, after the Cin timeout, Cin put in people to defend against the pass. Haley decided that a run with a TO was an acceptable risk, and it should have been.

Acting like two pass plays would have been any easier to run assumes quite a few things 1) Ben has to scramble to get away from pressure. 2) Ben gets sacked 3) Tomlin calls for Ben to throw an INT. Presumably, ben knows to throw the ball right away if there isn't anything open, but you should also have to presume that Ben knows to call a TO as soon as the whistle blows from the running play....

In the mindset of a play in action, Ben's competitiveness may override what he knows he should do pre-snap. He WANTS to make that play and he knows he's done it before. Does he get rid of the ball that fast?

You people think Haley just pulled the idea out of his *** with no thought because he is an idiot (or Tomlin is). I don't even agree with the call, but I can see the logic behind the attempt. If you have one agenda (and you know who you are) and that is Tomlin and/or Haley couldn't possibly have made a thought out decision.
 
Steeler Pride said:
How do you, I, or anyone not on the team know what directives Tomlin or Haley have given Ben with regards to the clock in that situation? I am not going to fault the QB for not calling a TO on the field unless I know for a fact that he was told to call it. For all we know, Ben could have assumed that since we called the running play the intention was to kick the FG if Bell doesn't get in and he was milking the clock down so Cincy didn't get a chance to return a kick.
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Really? How many QB's do you see calling TO's on the field? Quite a few. Why would a 14-year vet NEED to be told that?
 
And if they were worried about leaving time for KO return then what is Tomlin so pissed about on the sidelines and trying to time put back on the clock??
 
ark steel said:
Really? How many QB's do you see calling TO's on the field? Quite a few. Why would a 14-year vet NEED to be told that?
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"Ben could have assumed that since we called the running play the intention was to kick the FG if Bell doesn't get in and he was milking the clock down so Cincy didn't get a chance to return a kick"

Once again, nobody knows what Ben was told or directive he has been given with regards to clock management at the end of the halves. I find it odd that a veteran QB with his experience doesn't call the timeout, which leads me to question why he didn't and am likely to believe that he had other instructions rather than he just up and forgot to call it.
 
ark steel said:
The deal is, at 12 seconds and a TO, you have time, technically, to run two plays and get the FG on the field as long as both plays are not a running play AND there are no **** ups. It is tight, but, clearly, doable as the running play was over at 7 seconds. The bigger problem would have been if there had been a big pile that got pushed for a couple of seconds, then tackled short, leaving too little or no time. You KNOW the bengals are expecting two passes.

You have one of the top RB's and WR in the league and a franchise QB. You can pass twice (as long as there are no int's or sacks....) . You can run, call TO and then pass. Obviously, after the Cin timeout, Cin put in people to defend against the pass. Haley decided that a run with a TO was an acceptable risk, and it should have been.

Acting like two pass plays would have been any easier to run assumes quite a few things 1) Ben has to scramble to get away from pressure. 2) Ben gets sacked 3) Tomlin calls for Ben to throw an INT. Presumably, ben knows to throw the ball right away if there isn't anything open, but you should also have to presume that Ben knows to call a TO as soon as the whistle blows from the running play....

In the mindset of a play in action, Ben's competitiveness may override what he knows he should do pre-snap. He WANTS to make that play and he knows he's done it before. Does he get rid of the ball that fast?

You people think Haley just pulled the idea out of his *** with no thought because he is an idiot (or Tomlin is). I don't even agree with the call, but I can see the logic behind the attempt. If you have one agenda (and you know who you are) and that is Tomlin and/or Haley couldn't possibly have made a thought out decision.
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Running a stretch play there makes no sense what so ever. Bell is most effective running inside the tackles where his wait and explode style works well. Waiting on a stretch play gets eaten alive. Almost all of Bell's yards yesterday came between the Tackles. So running a slow developing stretch play with limited time and only 1 time out is dumb.
 
Steeler Pride said:
Running a stretch play there makes no sense what so ever. Bell is most effective running inside the tackles where his wait and explode style works well. Waiting on a stretch play gets eaten alive. Almost all of Bell's yards yesterday came between the Tackles. So running a slow developing stretch play with limited time and only 1 time out is dumb.
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I think I made a thread where running that stretch play at the goal line can win you a game...

I can't ever assume what Ben thinks. He does confusing and dumb things at times when managing the clock. But he does a terrific job of winning games, so you have to take the pros with the cons.

The odd thing to me, is Ben knows this is a running play, and a running clock, and he doesn't signal a TO at all? The coach did. That is very confusing. Luck would be sprinting to a ref signalling timeout. Hell I don't know a single other QB other than Ben or whoever Brown QB is on the field, would fail to make that TO.

If he was smart enough to realize, hey if I call TO right away, maybe I can throw on 3rd down? He might have called the TO.
 
Steeler Pride said:
Running a stretch play there makes no sense what so ever. Bell is most effective running inside the tackles where his wait and explode style works well. Waiting on a stretch play gets eaten alive. Almost all of Bell's yards yesterday came between the Tackles. So running a slow developing stretch play with limited time and only 1 time out is dumb.
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If Bell doesn't get stopped so quick, even more time runs off the clock, he lost a yard and that play took 4 or 5 seconds, just think if he gains 3 or 4 you only have time for a FG. I'm going with the two QBs here, two throws that are into the end zone, then kick. If course if Vance McDonald can catch we aren't talking about this.

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Cope said:
I think I made a thread where running that stretch play at the goal line can win you a game...

I can't ever assume what Ben thinks. He does confusing and dumb things at times when managing the clock. But he does a terrific job of winning games, so you have to take the pros with the cons.

The odd thing to me, is Ben knows this is a running play, and a running clock, and he doesn't signal a TO at all? The coach did. That is very confusing. Luck would be sprinting to a ref signalling timeout. Hell I don't know a single other QB other than Ben or whoever Brown QB is on the field, would fail to make that TO.

If he was smart enough to realize, hey if I call TO right away, maybe I can throw on 3rd down? He might have called the TO.
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Once again, if your QB routinely does "dumb things" when managing the clock, why would you as a HC or OC not specifically tell him on the radio "if he doesn't get in here we need to call the TO immediately." It makes NO sense why the QB with his experience would not call a TO there. There has to be more to the story than Ben just forgot to call a TO.

As for the stretch play, 80% of Bell's runs for 3+ yards comes inside the tackles. Outside of that goal line run yesterday, we only ran one other off tackle run to the left side. I am glad that you found 1 play from YEARS ago where it worked, doesn't make it the right call yesterday in that situation.
 
Steeler Pride said:
Running a stretch play there makes no sense what so ever. Bell is most effective running inside the tackles where his wait and explode style works well. Waiting on a stretch play gets eaten alive. Almost all of Bell's yards yesterday came between the Tackles. So running a slow developing stretch play with limited time and only 1 time out is dumb.
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I'm not arguing FOR the specific call. Just that it you have time for two plays. You can pass/pass or run/pass. Cin called a timeout and, clearly, expected a pass and, presumably, put pass D people in. A run there, in and of itself, isn't a stupid call. It isn't out of the question that, if the DL penetrated enough to get to Bell behind the LoS, there is a reasonable possibility they get to Ben, too, if he doesn't get rid of it fast enough.

Me? I'd have been looking for a quick throw to juju or brown or a high throw to Bryant.
 
ark steel said:
I'm not arguing FOR the specific call. Just that it you have time for two plays. You can pass/pass or run/pass. Cin called a timeout and, clearly, expected a pass and, presumably, put pass D people in. A run there, in and of itself, isn't a stupid call. It isn't out of the question that, if the DL penetrated enough to get to Bell behind the LoS, there is a reasonable possibility they get to Ben, too, if he doesn't get rid of it fast enough.

Me? I'd have been looking for a quick throw to juju or brown or a high throw to Bryant.
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How about a simple play action pass...the kind that almost every other team with an established running game in the NFL executes inside the 5 yard line all the time.
 
ark steel said:
I'm not arguing FOR the specific call. Just that it you have time for two plays. You can pass/pass or run/pass. Cin called a timeout and, clearly, expected a pass and, presumably, put pass D people in. A run there, in and of itself, isn't a stupid call. It isn't out of the question that, if the DL penetrated enough to get to Bell behind the LoS, there is a reasonable possibility they get to Ben, too, if he doesn't get rid of it fast enough.

Me? I'd have been looking for a quick throw to juju or brown or a high throw to Bryant.
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If we are at the 2 or 3 then sure try a run, we were at the what 6 or 7, so chances are you aren't going to run the ball in from there. I'll take my two shots at the end zone and then kick, hell Cincy's OC called a play that got his TE wide open in the end zone, I'd assume we'd have a few of those type plays to try

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Coryea said:
hell Cincy's OC called a play that got his TE wide open in the end zone, I'd assume we'd have a few of those type plays to try
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Surely you jest, our OC can't even figure out a play to get a first down on 3rd and 1.
 
Coryea said:
hell Cincy's OC called a play that got his TE wide open in the end zone, I'd assume we'd have a few of those type plays to try
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We fall for that mfer every time. Aaarrrgghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dramatic effect
 
Cope said:
Didn't we convert a run last week on 3rd and 9? Yup.
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Not even close to comparable, we were near the goal line with time running low, and Cincy had a stout D in there, KC 3rd and 9 was expecting pass

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IMO, Ben didn't like the play call CHANGE to a run play. AND, when it didn't work...he sat on his hands and didn't signal the time-out. He and MT argued over the fact that he didn't signal the TO on the field which cost us valuable seconds and Ben said "It wasn't my idea to call a running play when I had a perfectly good pass play already called before CIN took the TO. MT wasn't happy with Ben and Ben wasn't happy with the play-call. We all know how Ben is. He doesn't respect his OC and it shows sometimes.
 
Coryea said:
Not even close to comparable, we were near the goal line with time running low, and Cincy had a stout D in there, KC 3rd and 9 was expecting pass

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The only thing I find comparable in both situations, is the defense was showing a pass defense sub package. Nickel packages I believe.
 
I have no problem with them calling a run play there if a.) the next play is immediately called during that same to, b.) we dont use one of our telegraphed run formations... and C the officials know you intend to call a timeout if the play ends in the field of play asap... you had a timeout to get everyone on the same page, and they clearly were not...
 
Elfiero said:
I love how everyone projects with Ben...you know "Ben can do no wrong", yeah just don't examine his past and his selfishness. You know what the latest incarnation of Ben's last name is now?

Weisensteinberger................lol C'mon you know that's funny. Read it on another forum.
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Have you ever gone a whole day without saying something stupid?
 
So Tomlin did tell the refs he wanted a TO before the running play.
 
antdrewjosh said:
So Tomlin did tell the refs he wanted a TO before the running play.
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The only person he could tell was Ben. Even telling the refs doesn't mean they will call it immediately when the runner is down. They have to see the TO called.
 
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