I guess the Patriots were lazy as well? I understand it but doesn't mean I wasn't surprised. But I guess you know better than the professionals (Colbert) who get paid to do this for a living.
Colin Holb-a long snapper in the 6th ?now yinz have something legitimate to ***** at.
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I guess the Patriots were lazy as well? I understand it but doesn't mean I wasn't surprised. But I guess you know better than the professionals (Colbert) who get paid to do this for a living.
Because of rule differences, the vast majority of college long snappers aren't pro body sizes.. basically its a rarer commodity than people think these days to get a pro ready one right out of the gate... so risking him signing elsewhere or someone else spending a seventh on him might not be worth it if they think he can play now
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Well I would think they LS in question would have been there in the 7th. Is this news of Greg W. Retiring a sudden surprise or a rebellious move by Greg??? I do think we need a competition at that position and it does take a lot to be a VERY GOOD LS as shown by Greg. He is getting a bit long in the tooth and we do need to explore option now. We have the new kid regardless of how right or wrong we obtained him, we might as well get use to the fact he will be our new LS as youth will prevail. I have a frien who about 15-18years ago made Denver's TC as a LB. He realized he wasn't going to make the team as a LB so he lobbied for and got LS participation as he did that also in college. He got down to the very end of TC. He had by far the fasted snap and release on the team (even faster snap than starting center). He just didn't make the team as he was 2 inches to short. The coaches talked a lot to him and he kept ready in case he got the call. TODAYS rules he would have made the team. Bottom line a LS is important and with GREG being flawless up to this point we question why a new guy in that draft position. Warren's snap time and age are starting to show so I think FO realized a need and weather lazy or not they got who they wanted.
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Even Holba surprised Steelers would draft a long snapper
Even Colin Holba agreed, who could have guessed the Steelers would draft a long snapper in the sixth round?
“Oh, absolutely,” said the Louisville long snapper, who was taken Saturday with pick No. 213. “Being in a specialist position, very rarely do guys get drafted. For this to happen is beyond my wildest imagination.”
The Steelers have an experienced long snapper in Greg Warren, a 13-year veteran who re-signed in February. That made the move more surprising when the Steelers used their sixth-round pick on the 6-foot-4, 248-pound Holba.
“Not many long snappers come along we believe are draftable,” general manager Kevin Colbert said. “When we see one, we want to add him in the mix.”
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers...surprised-steelers-would-draft-a-long-snapper
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Colbert didn't find it unusual the Steelers, one win away from reaching the Super Bowl last year, would use a late-round draft pick on a long snapper rather than, say, an inside linebacker or tight end *— positions ignored in the draft.
“You have to be able to back that up,” Colbert said, adding Warren is entering his 13th season. “This will be competition for Greg just like we have competition at other spots. We have drafted guys in the sixth and seventh rounds that don't make the team, and maybe they are practice-squad types. So, the competition will be there.
“If he makes it, he makes it.”
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers...t-on-day-3-gm-colbert-says-not-many-surprises
Even Colin Holba agreed, who could have guessed the Steelers would draft a long snapper in the sixth round?
“Oh, absolutely,” said the Louisville long snapper, who was taken Saturday with pick No. 213. “Being in a specialist position, very rarely do guys get drafted. For this to happen is beyond my wildest imagination.”
The Steelers have an experienced long snapper in Greg Warren, a 13-year veteran who re-signed in February. That made the move more surprising when the Steelers used their sixth-round pick on the 6-foot-4, 248-pound Holba.
“Not many long snappers come along we believe are draftable,” general manager Kevin Colbert said. “When we see one, we want to add him in the mix.”
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers...surprised-steelers-would-draft-a-long-snapper
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Colbert didn't find it unusual the Steelers, one win away from reaching the Super Bowl last year, would use a late-round draft pick on a long snapper rather than, say, an inside linebacker or tight end *— positions ignored in the draft.
“You have to be able to back that up,” Colbert said, adding Warren is entering his 13th season. “This will be competition for Greg just like we have competition at other spots. We have drafted guys in the sixth and seventh rounds that don't make the team, and maybe they are practice-squad types. So, the competition will be there.
“If he makes it, he makes it.”
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers...t-on-day-3-gm-colbert-says-not-many-surprises
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think of long snappers like rubber bands. No one buys them...you just find them.
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Personally I think there is more to Warren than we know, because of all the vague answers we are getting from Colbert. Wish I remembered where I saw this, but basically, Holb was the number 1 LS in the scouting community and was predicted to be drafted at least by Rd 7. So Pitt picked him late in the 6th basically as a early 7th.
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Holb was considered the best long-snapper in the nation. Not only does he snap it better than the others, but he covers as well. His area of weakness is getting ready to block at an NFL level. They don't get ran over in college and can leave on the snap. That changes in the NFL.
Still, last time the Steelers drafted a LS was 2004, it was Caylor. Never made the roster, released. They signed a free agent in 2005 that won the job. His name was Greg Warren.
Meh, happens. I just think it is dumb, but they are almost guaranteed to throw out a head scratcher each draft, just glad it was the 6th and not the 3rd.
Still, last time the Steelers drafted a LS was 2004, it was Caylor. Never made the roster, released. They signed a free agent in 2005 that won the job. His name was Greg Warren.
Meh, happens. I just think it is dumb, but they are almost guaranteed to throw out a head scratcher each draft, just glad it was the 6th and not the 3rd.
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One was drafted in the 5th round in 2015.
However, I get it.
But to give you guys some perspective... the number of tackles that Greg Warren has made in the last ten years equals the number that Zak DeOssie (LS for Giants) made just in 2016 alone. Last year Warren had zero tackles. DeOssie had eight in 2016.
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That is interesting. LS is a position we don't look at in depth. Unless he bounces one, or sends one over the punter/holders head, we assume he's doing a good job. Maybe they're starting to look at blocking, and tackling as part of the job.An LS that can tackle might stop a return that could cost us a game, and maybe a season. Warren making zero tackles, while DeOssie made 8 is an eye opener.
It's a good thing the Steelers waited until the 6th round. I'm sure they had a 3rd round grade on this guy. Would have been the perfect 3rd round comp pick up to follow the 3rd round comp drafting of Dri Archer. Could have gotten 600 pages!!
I personally think Warren is done. He was ready to retire last year, and the steelers begged him to come back for one more year. He did, but I think he's ready to get on with his life's work.
The Steelers LSers haven't botched a snap in 20 years. Schneck and Warren were moneyball. If this kid is the next perfect snapper for us and we don't have to draft another LS for another decade, I won't be too upset about this pick.
I personally think Warren is done. He was ready to retire last year, and the steelers begged him to come back for one more year. He did, but I think he's ready to get on with his life's work.
The Steelers LSers haven't botched a snap in 20 years. Schneck and Warren were moneyball. If this kid is the next perfect snapper for us and we don't have to draft another LS for another decade, I won't be too upset about this pick.
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Yinzers, get with the program here..........Snapping the ball a long distance and placing it correctly will increase production of the field goal kicker and our punter.....Our punter shanked a few out of bounds last year and while he takes the blame, the snap needs to be there too.....Our punter just added 5-7 yards per kick because of this addition
Our Special teams just got a whole lot better across the board....Our punting unit just got better as there will be better placed punts, and better coverage because of it. We will also create more turnover because of this addition
Our field goals and extra points just got better. Expect an increase of 5- 7.5% in field goal percentage....
A TE here was not the move to increase production, as my thesis above clearly states.
You are all so short-sighted & selfish to want a TE when the one we have is in concussion protocol year round and the other is an Outlaw who isn't too scary........
Our Special teams just got a whole lot better across the board....Our punting unit just got better as there will be better placed punts, and better coverage because of it. We will also create more turnover because of this addition
Our field goals and extra points just got better. Expect an increase of 5- 7.5% in field goal percentage....
A TE here was not the move to increase production, as my thesis above clearly states.
You are all so short-sighted & selfish to want a TE when the one we have is in concussion protocol year round and the other is an Outlaw who isn't too scary........
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Jesse James was a fifth round pick, and folks aren't satisfied with him, so what makes us think a sixth round guy is going to be the next Heath? No one thinks about the LS until a bad snap ends your season.
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I get why you want a reliable long snapper. I really do. I want a reliable guy. But, since 2000, here are the long snappers that were drafted:
Joe Maese (2001 6th, Ravens)-spent 4 seasons in Baltimore and one in Detroit before his career ended.
Ryan Pontbriand (2003 5th, Browns)-9 years in Cleveland, one in San Fran
Drew Caylor (2004 6th, Steelers)-did not make the Steelers roster, spent a year in NY and Baltimore, no stats, no games played.
Zak DeOssie (2007 4th, Giants)-10 years with the Giants
Tyler Schmitt (2008 6th, Seahawks)-missed his rookie season with a back injury, cut and career ended.
Jake Ingram (2009 6th, Patriots)-snapped for the whole 2009 season. Was waived in November 2010, signed by the Saints, waived 2 days later, signed two more times, never made a roster.
Joe Cardona (2015 5th, Patriots)-still with the Patriots.
Jimmy Landes (2016 6th, Lions)-spent rookie season on IR.
The Steelers have used Mike Schneck and Greg Warren to handle the long snapping duties since 1999. Neither were drafted. So, what, three of the 8 did not snap more than one season, four of the 8 did not see 5 seasons (and one more is injured and did not play his first season). So, give it a 50/50 shot to be decent.
I would say that an undrafted long-snapper probably has the same odds. It is like having a new truck and going out and paying $10,000 for a brand new set of tires. Sure, they are good tires, but you could put new tires all the way around for a lot damn less and they would do the same job. The guy I wanted there was Elijah Qualls. I think, at worst, you have a guy that pushes McCullers off the roster and you get 4 seasons of a backup NT from him, maybe you get more. Could have added another long corner, that way if your 5th fails, you have another chance at finding a player. Could have added a 3rd RB, maybe a 3rd down specialist. It isn't like we are flushed at RB. What about an OT to replace the retired player.
Those guys are tougher to get than long snappers. Sorry, but they just are. They carry more value. If they didn't, teams would not draft really good ones in the first round.
Joe Maese (2001 6th, Ravens)-spent 4 seasons in Baltimore and one in Detroit before his career ended.
Ryan Pontbriand (2003 5th, Browns)-9 years in Cleveland, one in San Fran
Drew Caylor (2004 6th, Steelers)-did not make the Steelers roster, spent a year in NY and Baltimore, no stats, no games played.
Zak DeOssie (2007 4th, Giants)-10 years with the Giants
Tyler Schmitt (2008 6th, Seahawks)-missed his rookie season with a back injury, cut and career ended.
Jake Ingram (2009 6th, Patriots)-snapped for the whole 2009 season. Was waived in November 2010, signed by the Saints, waived 2 days later, signed two more times, never made a roster.
Joe Cardona (2015 5th, Patriots)-still with the Patriots.
Jimmy Landes (2016 6th, Lions)-spent rookie season on IR.
The Steelers have used Mike Schneck and Greg Warren to handle the long snapping duties since 1999. Neither were drafted. So, what, three of the 8 did not snap more than one season, four of the 8 did not see 5 seasons (and one more is injured and did not play his first season). So, give it a 50/50 shot to be decent.
I would say that an undrafted long-snapper probably has the same odds. It is like having a new truck and going out and paying $10,000 for a brand new set of tires. Sure, they are good tires, but you could put new tires all the way around for a lot damn less and they would do the same job. The guy I wanted there was Elijah Qualls. I think, at worst, you have a guy that pushes McCullers off the roster and you get 4 seasons of a backup NT from him, maybe you get more. Could have added another long corner, that way if your 5th fails, you have another chance at finding a player. Could have added a 3rd RB, maybe a 3rd down specialist. It isn't like we are flushed at RB. What about an OT to replace the retired player.
Those guys are tougher to get than long snappers. Sorry, but they just are. They carry more value. If they didn't, teams would not draft really good ones in the first round.
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Is using a roster spot on a LS also stupid? I don't recall anyone complaining about the Steelers doing that, but using a sixth round pick, where any other position is a very iffy proposition to earn a roster spot, is an outrage? Do explain.
That's a hell of a point.
When I heard they drafted a LS, I also thought WTF? And I agree with what TMC says in regards to it. But at the end of the day it is a lot of angst over a 6th rounder.
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So, would you draft a long snapper in the first round? If not, do explain. Because if you won't draft a long snapper in the first round, there has to be a reason. He is a valued member of the team that keeps disaster from happening. Yet, I bet you won't pull the trigger there.
Why? Because a long snapper does not present the value of players at other positions. That is it in a nutshell. It is about appropriately using your limited resources. If only 8 long snappers have been drafted since 2000, how did the other 22 teams get their long snappers? Hell, unless all 8 are still playing (and I know 4 are not), then it is 26 teams that found long snappers without using a limited resource (draft picks) to acquire one.
If the majority of NFL teams can do that, why can't we? Hell, we did not draft our punter or kicker, yet a long snapper is more important? I'm not against the kid or having a long snapper, it is simply that they do not carry the value in the draft that position players do.
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An OT, NT, RB or ILB all seem to be more viable options. If you are going to take the LS take him in the 7th or just do what most normal teams do...bring in 3 guys for tryouts and the best guy wins. I'm not in favor of drafting LS but he probably does stand a better chance of cracking the roster so I do get both sides of the argument.
If this is the master strategy in our war room a trade for 5th next year or trade up with 5&6 to the top of the 5th to grab a TE both seem to be far better options.
If this is the master strategy in our war room a trade for 5th next year or trade up with 5&6 to the top of the 5th to grab a TE both seem to be far better options.
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How is that perspective? Who cares how many tackles the LS makes? James Harrison makes lots of tackles but I sure as hell don't want to see him long snapping again!
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It's easy to explain, a sixth round pick is far from a first round pick. Conversely, would you trade a first round pick for four sixth round picks? I mean, people keep reminding me one of them could be the next AB or Brady.
A sixth round long snapper doesn't present the value of players at other positions, but it's a hell of a lot more likely to make the team and contribute right away, albeit in a limited role. And if you're going to start arguing value, then you need to consider if you ever want to use a first round pick on a OG, ILB, or S. Faneca, Timmons, Shazier, Polamalu could have been LTs, OLBs and CBs - more value, right?
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No, I would not trade a 1st for four 6th round picks, because a first round pick is vastly more valuable. Just like a 6th round pick is more valuable than an undrafted free agent, where roughly 85% of the league found their long snappers.
As for spending first round picks on OGs, ILBs, or safeties, teams usually don't unless they consider them elite guys that will give them 10-years of great play. They also don't draft fullbacks that high either. Or kickers (unless you are the Raiders). Or Punters. That absolutely exemplifies the point of value. And, the overwhelming MAJORITY of the long snappers in the NFL were not drafted. In fact, it is about a 50/50 proposition that a drafted long snapper makes it. Again, they could invited the #1 or #2 long snapper coming out to camp each year, pay him $15,000 in a signing bonus, which would be huge for a LS, and almost guarantee they get their choice each year until they found a guy. They could do that for 8 years in a row and still would not have the same economic that spending the 6th round pick on him has. Just to get him in camp, they will hand him $130,000 in cash.
Long snappers are so valued that Greg Warren, who has been excellent at the job, often operates on a one-year minimum contract. So valued they won't sign him long-term.
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In the Tomlin era, here are his 6th round picks:
Mike Humpal-failed
Ra'Shon Harris-played some, not enough, failed
Antonio Brown-did okay
Jonathan Dwyer-in league for 5 seasons
Keith Williams-failed
Vince Williams-did okay
Justin Brown-failed
Jordan Zumwalt-failed
Dan McCullers-still here
Anthony Chickillo-still here
LT Walton-still here
Travis Feeney-gone, failed.
So, that is 6 failed players our of 12 guys drafted. Roughly 50%, less if you count Dwyer as a fail. About the same fail rate for Tomlin/Colbert as the league has with long-snappers. So, are position players more valued than long-snappers. If they are, it was a dumbass move.
Mike Humpal-failed
Ra'Shon Harris-played some, not enough, failed
Antonio Brown-did okay
Jonathan Dwyer-in league for 5 seasons
Keith Williams-failed
Vince Williams-did okay
Justin Brown-failed
Jordan Zumwalt-failed
Dan McCullers-still here
Anthony Chickillo-still here
LT Walton-still here
Travis Feeney-gone, failed.
So, that is 6 failed players our of 12 guys drafted. Roughly 50%, less if you count Dwyer as a fail. About the same fail rate for Tomlin/Colbert as the league has with long-snappers. So, are position players more valued than long-snappers. If they are, it was a dumbass move.
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I'm going to add this and I am done with the long-snapper, I don't mind that they want to get a young horse. I don't. Seems like Warren talked retirement last year. So, it is time. I just think it is an inefficient use of resources. Just like I don't want a FB in the first, or a punter, or a kicker, or an average offensive guard, I don't want to spend draft picks on guys that most of the league found with minimal financial investment. It is like paying $100 for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich because it came pre-made and you are too damn lazy to open two jars. Put in the work.