2015 defense vs. 2016 defense

[mdk2]

What is the difference between the 2015 defense and this years? I know last years defense wasn't great but it got the job done a lot of games and the pass rush was the big factor. This year the pass rush is non-existent, I don't understand why they are not using the same scheme as last season as far as blitzes go. I think we have upgraded in the secondary(losing Blake) and the only missing pieces in the front 7 is Bud and McClendon, are those absences really the cause?

This defense so far this year, resembles that of Dick Lebeau's 2014 defense that was 26th in the league in sacks and played soft zone almost all the time. Last season Butler shook things up and started blitzing and playing more press, man to man principles which led to the 3rd best sack rate of 48. Sure we got beat over the top sometimes but we aren't going to generate any turnovers by sitting back in soft zone while sending 3 or 4 guys.

So it's one of two things, either they think the secondary is worst this year and cannot afford to send extra men or they are just abandoning a somewhat successful scheme to try something new for some reason.

Either way they need to find a pass rush this week and I suggest doing what they did last season because it wasn't all that bad.

 

[Clete]

What is the difference between the 2015 defense and this years? I know last years defense wasn't great but it got the job done a lot of games and the pass rush was the big factor. This year the pass rush is non-existent, I don't understand why they are not using the same scheme as last season as far as blitzes go. I think we have upgraded in the secondary(losing Blake) and the only missing pieces in the front 7 is Bud and McClendon, are those absences really the cause?

This defense so far this year, resembles that of Dick Lebeau's 2014 defense that was 26th in the league in sacks and played soft zone almost all the time. Last season Butler shook things up and started blitzing and playing more press, man to man principles which led to the 3rd best sack rate of 48. Sure we got beat over the top sometimes but we aren't going to generate any turnovers by sitting back in soft zone while sending 3 or 4 guys.

So it's one of two things, either they think the secondary is worst this year and cannot afford to send extra men or they are just abandoning a somewhat successful scheme to try something new for some reason.

Either way they need to find a pass rush this week and I suggest doing what they did last season because it wasn't all that bad.

The Steelers faced 7 backup QBs last year skewing the stats downward. We had a lot of =sacks last year on scheme but did not get constant pressure whch is way more important than sack stats.

 

[ark steel]

What is the difference between the 2015 defense and this years? I know last years defense wasn't great but it got the job done a lot of games and the pass rush was the big factor. This year the pass rush is non-existent, I don't understand why they are not using the same scheme as last season as far as blitzes go. I think we have upgraded in the secondary(losing Blake) and the only missing pieces in the front 7 is Bud and McClendon, are those absences really the cause?

This defense so far this year, resembles that of Dick Lebeau's 2014 defense that was 26th in the league in sacks and played soft zone almost all the time. Last season Butler shook things up and started blitzing and playing more press, man to man principles which led to the 3rd best sack rate of 48. Sure we got beat over the top sometimes but we aren't going to generate any turnovers by sitting back in soft zone while sending 3 or 4 guys.

So it's one of two things, either they think the secondary is worst this year and cannot afford to send extra men or they are just abandoning a somewhat successful scheme to try something new for some reason.

Either way they need to find a pass rush this week and I suggest doing what they did last season because it wasn't all that bad.

I think there is a recognition that the secondary is full of inexperienced guys and the defense has been called to help alleviate mistakes (not successful last game) and less on getting sacks. Might be just my imagination, though.

 

[SteelerFan448]

The Steelers are lucky to have one sack this year. They are getting zero pressure and that is a concern moving forward.

 

[Coryea]

Let's not try to fool ourselves, this is not Butler's defense, this is Tomlin defense, he's been getting a little more involved going back to DLs final couple seasons.
Butler has been our LB coach since DL returned basically, with all the pass rushers and blitzes and pressure we have put on QB's since he's been here. I don't think he would step in and just go soft and play coverage passive defense.

 

[Steelers1]

Let's not try to fool ourselves, this is not Butler's defense, this is Tomlin defense, he's been getting a little more involved going back to DLs final couple seasons.
Butler has been our LB coach since DL returned basically, with all the pass rushers and blitzes and pressure we have put on QB's since he's been here. I don't think he would step in and just go soft and play coverage passive defense.

Sadly this is true. Tomlin has puyt his stamp on the team and the arrow is heading downward so to speak.

 

[Steelr4evr]

Just waves crashing on big rocks with little to no impact. That's the sum thus far.

 

[chipped ham]

Let's not try to fool ourselves, this is not Butler's defense, this is Tomlin defense, he's been getting a little more involved going back to DLs final couple seasons.
Butler has been our LB coach since DL returned basically, with all the pass rushers and blitzes and pressure we have put on QB's since he's been here. I don't think he would step in and just go soft and play coverage passive defense.

Butler has had plenty of opportunity to go to another team to be the DC. I dunno, I think it'd be hard for him to pass up those jobs to stay here and not have it be the defense he wants.

 

[stillwright]

Butler has had plenty of opportunity to go to another team to be the DC. I dunno, I think it'd be hard for him to pass up those jobs to stay here and not have it be the defense he wants.

This.....I think Butler is just running a defense that he thinks best fits the talent we have. Figuring our offense will score points we are just playing a soft defense to not give up the big splash plays. And I can agree with it to a point. There are just times you have to press the opposing teams WR's in a game to create sometging. Maybe do something some teams call "blotzing". To disrupt something. You can not just sit back all game long and not expect a team to eventually to score.

 

[Stryker]

There is a big change on defense. Golden and Cockrell are now officially starters, and rookies Burns and Davis have added speed to our secondary. They are also raw and need a little time to develop and get more comfortable with the scheme. We haven't had to blitz much, because our team was playing with a lead. We blitzed a bunch in Philly, but it was picked up well, and Wentz didn't seem to mind the pressure. I believe our pass rush will improve as the season progresses, and I don't think Dupree is the only factor that will improve our pass rush.

 

[deljzc]

It's a group effort with Butler and Tomlin. They both watch the film, know the talent they have and decide how to play opponents.

Is kind of what it is. We have a talent issue because the talent we've drafted isn't getting to play together consistently. And maybe the talent we've drafted isn't as good as we hope.

The offensive players brought in from 2009-2013 have greatly outperformed the defensive players from 2009-2013 and that has forced our hands to pick defensive talent early and often in drafts. Hopefully it gets healthy and produces because eventually we'll have to make some money decisions.

This defense is getting young very quickly and it's got to hold it together and produce or we're not going very far in the playoffs.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Let's not try to fool ourselves, this is not Butler's defense, this is Tomlin defense, he's been getting a little more involved going back to DLs final couple seasons.
Butler has been our LB coach since DL returned basically, with all the pass rushers and blitzes and pressure we have put on QB's since he's been here. I don't think he would step in and just go soft and play coverage passive defense.

Ahhh the old when something isn't working it's Tomlin thing again..like some one said Butler turned down numerous opportunities to go elsewhere but stayed here to be a puppet for Tomlin. I'm going to post a a couple of paragraphs from an article that states Tomlin let's his assistants coach. Really tired of this when something isn't going well it's all Tomlin. But when it's going well he doesn't have anything to do with it. I'm called a Tomlin lover because I always point that out. Look we have young guys in certain positions. We are not going to be ultra aggressive and put more on them young guys which would cause even more explosive plays. The front 4 has to play better. The Eagles have a damn good offensive line. So couple that with out front 4 not playing well and you get what you saw Sunday. The Eagles were balanced on offense and we can't let teams be balanced.

 

[Coach]

What is the difference between the 2015 defense and this years? I know last years defense wasn't great but it got the job done a lot of games and the pass rush was the big factor. This year the pass rush is non-existent, I don't understand why they are not using the same scheme as last season as far as blitzes go. I think we have upgraded in the secondary(losing Blake) and the only missing pieces in the front 7 is Bud and McClendon, are those absences really the cause?

This defense so far this year, resembles that of Dick Lebeau's 2014 defense that was 26th in the league in sacks and played soft zone almost all the time. Last season Butler shook things up and started blitzing and playing more press, man to man principles which led to the 3rd best sack rate of 48. Sure we got beat over the top sometimes but we aren't going to generate any turnovers by sitting back in soft zone while sending 3 or 4 guys.

So it's one of two things, either they think the secondary is worst this year and cannot afford to send extra men or they are just abandoning a somewhat successful scheme to try something new for some reason.

Either way they need to find a pass rush this week and I suggest doing what they did last season because it wasn't all that bad.

The secondary is worse, or if you prefer very inexperienced playing two rookies in Davis and Burns. Burns has ball skils and size but doesn't tackle well. Davis misses way too many tackles to be considered reliable.

Our pass rush has taken a hit due to Harrison being 38 and Dupree being hurt. We can't count on Jarvis Jones to generate much of a rush.

It is what it is, and there is no quick fix, perhaps until next season when we draft edge rushers and the rookies gain more experience.

Butler is forced to play a light version of a prevent defense. I wish he's send corners of the edge more to mix it up...

 

[antdrewjosh]

So the young guys can't improve this year??

 

[SteelBuckeye]

So the young guys can't improve this year??

No that's impossible. The sky is not only falling, it's dropping nuclear ash, fire and brimstone. We are officially the Cleveland Browns East (at 2-1).

 

[Coach]

So the young guys can't improve this year??

They can improve, and they can also lose confidence.

Don't yell at me, I was for Marcus Peters in round one. He only has 4 interceptions in three games so far. The Steelers play him next.

 

[Coach]

No that's impossible. The sky is not only falling, it's dropping nuclear ash, fire and brimstone. We are officially the Cleveland Browns East (at 2-1).

The Kanas City game is HUGE. Denver looks great and should win the AFC West. If we do not win the division, this could be a wild card tie breaker.

 

[21STEELERS21]

Defense looked better than 2015 in first 2 games. Lots of 3rd down stops. Golden leaving game and then Timmons thru this defense out of sorts.
Rookies were playing positions they haven't played much.

I believe the sacks will come. Helps when offense holds the ball more and gives the defense a break every once in awhile.

 

[ark steel]

Defense looked better than 2015 in first 2 games. Lots of 3rd down stops. Golden leaving game and then Timmons thru this defense out of sorts.
Rookies were playing positions they haven't played much.

I believe the sacks will come. Helps when offense holds the ball more and gives the defense a break every once in awhile.

honestly, I don't understand this, at all.

You, Tibs and I agree so much on this side of the board and complete opposites on the other side. Vader and I agreed on almost everything on the other side and almost not at all on this side.

Clearly, im right on both sides, so you and Tibs need to adjust accordingly.

 

[antdrewjosh]

honestly, I don't understand this, at all.

You, Tibs and I agree so much on this side of the board and complete opposites on the other side. Vader and I agreed on almost everything on the other side and almost not at all on this side.

Clearly, im right on both sides, so you and Tibs need to adjust accordingly.

Hahahahahaha

 

[POP]

It's a group effort with Butler and Tomlin. They both watch the film, know the talent they have and decide how to play opponents.

Is kind of what it is. We have a talent issue because the talent we've drafted isn't getting to play together consistently. And maybe the talent we've drafted isn't as good as we hope.

The offensive players brought in from 2009-2013 have greatly outperformed the defensive players from 2009-2013 and that has forced our hands to pick defensive talent early and often in drafts. Hopefully it gets healthy and produces because eventually we'll have to make some money decisions.

This defense is getting young very quickly and it's got to hold it together and produce or we're not going very far in the playoffs.

Of course the D talent isn't that good. JJ just plain sucks, and he plays probably the most vital position in the whole unit, and if your premier OLB doesn't get to the QB, AT ALL, well, the D will suck, and it does. We have ZERO #1 CB and most team's #2 is better than any CB we have. As mentioned many times, we face 2nd and 3rd string QBs 7 times last year. One team beat us with a QB who had been on the roster for like one week. We have four first round picks on LBs. And they generally are not producing. Hard to overcome that. The Tomlin era is not drafting very well. Cowher's teams were much better at getting good players in the draft.

 

[Coryea]

Ahhh the old when something isn't working it's Tomlin thing again..like some one said Butler turned down numerous opportunities to go elsewhere but stayed here to be a puppet for Tomlin. I'm going to post a a couple of paragraphs from an article that states Tomlin let's his assistants coach. Really tired of this when something isn't going well it's all Tomlin. But when it's going well he doesn't have anything to do with it. I'm called a Tomlin lover because I always point that out. Look we have young guys in certain positions. We are not going to be ultra aggressive and put more on them young guys which would cause even more explosive plays. The front 4 has to play better. The Eagles have a damn good offensive line. So couple that with out front 4 not playing well and you get what you saw Sunday. The Eagles were balanced on offense and we can't let teams be balanced.

Well in case you missed it, I said Tomlin has been getting more and more involved the past few seasons, so that includes last season when we were 3rd in sacks, and had a ton of turnovers, so I am giving him credit for that.

No, no one would stick around to be a puppet, but I'm sure Tomlin wouldn't tell him that either, he stuck around in large part out of respect for DL and the Rooney's. I don't get why a 3-4 coach that has been apart of a pressure happy defense with exotic blitzes, specifically the fire X, which we may have seen once this season would totally go opposite of that and play almost a cover 2 (which is what Tomlin likes). If we had guys that could rush the QB at OLB, then I could see rushing 3 or 4 and dropping into coverage, but we have no pass rushers so we have to take chances and blitz

 

[deljzc]

Of course the D talent isn't that good. JJ just plain sucks, and he plays probably the most vital position in the whole unit, and if your premier OLB doesn't get to the QB, AT ALL, well, the D will suck, and it does. We have ZERO #1 CB and most team's #2 is better than any CB we have. As mentioned many times, we face 2nd and 3rd string QBs 7 times last year. One team beat us with a QB who had been on the roster for like one week. We have four first round picks on LBs. And they generally are not producing. Hard to overcome that. The Tomlin era is not drafting very well. Cowher's teams were much better at getting good players in the draft.

I don't know if that's statistically true. I've studied a lot of our draft and it's not that much different between the three distinct eras: 1) Donahoe/Cowher 2) Colbert/Cowher and 3) Colbert/Tomlin

There is no doubt that Tomlin's hits in the draft have been on the offensive side of the ball. And his "hits" on the defense have been fairly conservative positions: D-line and ILB. Not quite the splash positions like pass rusher or elite secondary players.

If there is a concerning theme with the Colbert/Tomlin era it's the lack of late round gems, although where he lacks quantity as compared to previous regimes, he has quality: A. Brown is the best late round drafted player arguably in Steelers history.

The reliance of Colbert/Tomlin on their first three round players to produces puts a lot of pressure on the last three years (and it's defense-heavy theme) to produce and fix that side of the ball before Roethlisberger's career ends. Lord knows paying for all the offensive talent collected in 2010-2013 is going to cost most of the cap so we can't supplement 1st/2nd/3rd round misses over these last few drafts with free agents.

We just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Well in case you missed it, I said Tomlin has been getting more and more involved the past few seasons, so that includes last season when we were 3rd in sacks, and had a ton of turnovers, so I am giving him credit for that.

No, no one would stick around to be a puppet, but I'm sure Tomlin wouldn't tell him that either, he stuck around in large part out of respect for DL and the Rooney's. I don't get why a 3-4 coach that has been apart of a pressure happy defense with exotic blitzes, specifically the fire X, which we may have seen once this season would totally go opposite of that and play almost a cover 2 (which is what Tomlin likes). If we had guys that could rush the QB at OLB, then I could see rushing 3 or 4 and dropping into coverage, but we have no pass rushers so we have to take chances and blitz

Where was that post cause all I saw was it's Tomlin's defense. Not the he is involved more and more post.

Tomlin and Butler go way back. Coached on the same staff at Memphis so Butler sticking around may have not been about Lebeau and the Rooney's..

Tomlin cut his teeth under Dungy who ran the cover Two. So of course as a assistant he had to run and teach the cover two. So this notion that Tomlin is strictly a cover two coach is false. He coached it because that's what his boss hired him to do. He probably continued run it in Minnesota because that's what the Vikings wanted. They may have been looking for the success the Bucs had so they hired a coach who learned it under Dungy. Tomlin comes here and keeps the 3-4 and rightfully so.

More then half the time we are not in our base 3-4 so how are you going to run the exotic blitzes you want. We are in a passing league meaning we are in our nickle and dime packages way more. Who is playing in those packages our young rookies. Exposing them to the exotic blitz packages leads them to have to do more thinking then reacting which leads to explosive plays given up. People want the young guys to play earlier then you have to make it simpler for them. Can't have it both ways.

Tuitt and Heyward and Dupree when he gets back have to step up. Harrison is old and can only do it in spurts. Jones is Jones. Solid but not a playmaker. Same as Moats and chick. Sending more blitzes just because we aren't winning up front only exposes the back end to giving up chunks with no help behind them. Right now the issue is guys up front not winning their one on one battles and tackling both fixable issues IMO. But we knew the defense would have growing pains. The offense led by out hall of fame QB can't put up three points that's a bigger issue.

 

[ark steel]

I don't get why a 3-4 coach that has been apart of a pressure happy defense with exotic blitzes, specifically the fire X, which we may have seen once this season would totally go opposite of that and play almost a cover 2 (which is what Tomlin likes).

Two things:

1. Butler does not want to do things exactly like DL did. As much bullshit as has been spouted on this board about Tomlin shoving ****** players down DL's throat, I have zero doubt that DL and/or Butler had some input. Especially, now that DL has taken on a few of those players. Therefore, you would expect that they have been drafting (maybe badly) for the defense they want to run rather than the D they had;
2. Butler MAY actually want to run the D more like DL did, but realizes he doesn't have the personnel. Instead of shoving that square peg down the round hole, he shifted the D design to accommodate what he has. You go to war with the army you have, not the one you wish you had.

Could be either. Could be neither.