Burns on film
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Not for us. He's a very clutchy, grabby man-2-man guy and he's undersized a bit as well (although he has decent arm length). He's not Golson short, but he's the next step up. Very boom/bust. If he gains confidence and doesn't get called for being physical he's got some Janoris Jenkins in his game. But he could just as easily be a head case penalty machine that never figures out the NFL game. Tough to know at this point.
I still think Burns is a very "safe" CB prospect. I don't particularly like his ceiling much (Alexander probably has a higher ceiling) but I think Burns has a very low bust rate. The guy just has enough skill at everything to play decent coverage in a variety of schemes. I think Burns is headed for another William Gay type career for us. You'll get pissed at him some games (probably in bad red zone matchups) but for the most part he'll be a pretty quiet contributor here for a long, long time. And Tomlin will probably never give up on him through all the highs and lows. I worry much more about Golson's career here than Burns.
I opened the wormhole...again...
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Deljzc,
Didn't you say his tape video is more like a 3rd round grade? Fans can be impressed with Burns interception total in 2015, size and speed. That's a given.
Like I said when he sees the ball in the air and Burns is close to where the point of delivery happens he can make a QB pay. Most of the time, it's on passes that take a longer time to arrive.
But man, his film is not good vs. mediocre WR and QB competition. Burns looks like a sophomore college CB to me and is much further off from being NFL ready in comparison to the other corners taken in round one, and two. I'll stand by that statement, and will gladly bump this thread when Tomlin gives us coach speak that Burns is " In the learning process " which is code for he's not ready to play. It did not take Ross Cockrell long to learn our system. Of course, he went to Duke. I liked Cockrell in round three in the draft. We got him for free! I think Ross Cockrell starts this season.
Is Burns one of the top 5-6 best corners in the draft? On potential, yes, in terms of being NFL ready, no way. And that irks me as we need help in 2016, not 2018.
I also think Burns is not suited to play the slot and lacks some quickness to defend on quick slants, and comeback routes. He's an outside the hash marks type of CB. The NFL will slant and nickel and dime him for first downs until he learns how to play.
Going off tangent for a moment, I do not think Davis is a top 60 talent. He was over drafted due to our need. Davis gave up a lot of yardages, and like Burns has issues with penalties. As they say, when you reach for need, it tends not to work out. I'm okay with gambles from rounds 3-7, just not in rounds 1 or 2 unless you have the luxury of time, which in this case the Steelers do not.
There has been some talk to qualifications to comment here. I played and coached, obviously not at the NFL level. I'm 99.999% sure there is a reader who knows more than I do and I'll leave it at that. However I think I know enough about what is needed at the NFL level to be successful, and I do not see that with Burns yet. Jackson III knew how to play. You saw it on film. Burns, for now, is an athlete playing corner. Not so long ago the Steelers really like CB Justin Gilbert, who was also an athlete playing corner, but man his tape showed he had no technique and relied heavily on athletic ability in college. In the NFL, he's not living up to his status. Going into his 3rd season, Justin Gilbert has started just 3 games.
Can any of us change the picks that were drafted???
I suggest we sit back and wait to see what unfolds---first.
And then, if you must, restart your incessant complaining...
I suggest we sit back and wait to see what unfolds---first.
And then, if you must, restart your incessant complaining...
The steelers took two players who don't have to start right away. Golden and Cockrell can both hold the jobs til these guys are ready. There is nothing wrong with easing them both in. There shouldnt be any rush. The secondary was playing way better at the end of the year. If the guys(Cockrell Gay Mitchell Golden)who were playing at the end of last year can build off the finish of last year and we can add the athlecticsm of Burns Davis and Golson we will be tough on the backend. But of course we will have some who if Burns and Davis don't start will immediately label them busts.
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I had my Burns notes say "2nd rounder" and he ended up in the 2B group on my big board.
I had my notes on Davis say "2nd-3rd rounder" and he ended up in the 2B group on my big board as well.
I'm not arguing with you. If you think Burns is the next coming of Justin Gilbert, you're certainly entitled to that opinion. No one is stopping you. And you are on record as taking a Broncos trade back offer and picking Xavier Howard instead.
I actually think Howard is just as much a reach at #32 as Burns was at #25, but so be it. We'll see how that turns out.
I think for MOST of this message board, the consensus is we should have traded back to #32 with Denver once William Jackson was selected at #24. There were too many wishy-washy picks (including Burns, Howard, H. Henry and a host of DT's) left on the board. There's also a bit of Monday morning QB'ing going on knowing that extra 3rd round pick you'd get from Denver could have been Justin Simmons (who was a huge fan favorite on this board). However in real time, you don't know you'll get that good a secondary player with that extra 3rd round pick.
I think we can be critical of the decision NOT to trade back while not be so critical of the selection of Burns at #25.
To me the most outspoken fans against the pick also seem to be the ones mostly likely to trade back in their "what I would do" statements. I sort of think those are two separate issues and debates.
he doesn't.
Joel (err..Coach) tries to prove on multiple sites that he is a better GM than Colbert and a better coach than Tomlin.
give it up man. you are just like me - an amateur at scouting. you don't see 1/20000 of what Tomlin sees when he watches film.
stop man...it's embarrassing.
Some things that I think are real important regarding our first two picks that might be being over-looked a bit. They have good physical traits and speed and they can be taught to play the position better. They are also likely to improve by a huge amount when coached at the professional level as far as their technique goes. They both have more height than lots of guys we have had here in the past and that will be a big difference maker. They are willing tacklers and one of the reasons some of the guys that are no longer here are gone is their lack of effort when it came to making tackles. These kids will develop. They might even be good. In comparison Jarvis looked good enough to get awards in college for his performance and lots folks thought he would really be something, so far he has just been a guy. The point I am trying to show here is the guys the steelers drafted have lots of room to develop or not so it is rather early to rule them out or go crazy over the value of the guy 2 spots ahead of them at this point. Another case might be the differences of opinion when Alejandro showed up. I thought he had the physical size and could develop into a good left tackle that would eventually replace Bechum who was not a bad choice at all. Many folks thought I was completely off base at the time. Looks like the big guy was able to learn from a good coach and get better. I also think Lake is a good coach and it looks like he will have some talent that he will be able to develop for a change.
The best quote I remember about trading back was from Colbert and he said something like this, we are trying to win the super bowl not the draft. So with that in mind if a guy they really like is there and he is deemed a reach better to reach and have him than not and get two guys that don't make the team or make it better. I do appreciate the thought about getting three guys that make the team and make it better though so I do see the idea does have advantages sometimes.
The best quote I remember about trading back was from Colbert and he said something like this, we are trying to win the super bowl not the draft. So with that in mind if a guy they really like is there and he is deemed a reach better to reach and have him than not and get two guys that don't make the team or make it better. I do appreciate the thought about getting three guys that make the team and make it better though so I do see the idea does have advantages sometimes.
kansas traded back just after we picked burns , seems they were going to choose him , so probably no burns at 32
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If there is ONE place on earth, where opinions and predictions are the general rule and not the exception, it's on Internet message boards.
It always blows my mind that some people think opinions and predictions are inappropriate on message boards. That would be like telling callers on radio talk shows to not give their opinions. It's that crazy.
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I don't agree with that assumption. Maybe they didn't like anyone (including Burns) and did exactly what we should have done.
And remember KC drafted Marcus Peters with their #1 pick last season as well.
I don't think ANY of us know 100% sure if Burns' availability changes any pick between #25 and #31 had we traded back. And you never trade back if you don't have multiple options still on the board. Obviously Tombert didn't think so and many here do (myself included).
What a surprise.... some of us disagree with the front office and head coach.
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Or that was their guy....we most likely will never know. So you had a 2nd round grade on Burns. So the Steelers took him at 25. Not many picks until the 2nd round got there. And if that was a CB the Steelers had in the first tier then it really isn't that big of a reach at 25 using your own grading.
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Burns on flim part two. Games 5, 6,7 and 8
This is part 2, of Burns films, games #5 to #8. This format is great as you can watch all action that went Burns way vs. the pass, with replay option for most clips. It's actually superior to watching a full game for an evaluation process, as Burns is easy to locate and evaluate.
Summary if you don't want to read his targeted plays.
Positive: Once again, when Burns is in the position he'll make the QB pay with a bad throw and create a turnover more often than not.
More evaluation is needed. Burns might be a little vulnerable to the deep ball. He gave up one here.
Negatives. Burns let his man get open too often and in some plays where the WR dropped it or the QB pass was poor. In the NFL, these plays are completions. 9 of 18 targets were first down surrendered. In the NFL, It would be more like 11 of 18.
I see major problems when Burns has to defend posts or slants inside the hash marks. He looses too much ground on the breaks.
A bit flag prone in these 18 plays, Burns drew two flags but could have easily had 3-4 flags. The University of Miami coaches had to restrain him to avoid an excessive celebration flag
His route recognition, and ability to read and predict an offense needs a lot of work. I think he's vulnerable to short come back routes, and possible flea flicker like plays.
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...rtie-burns-2015-miami-pass-targets-games-5-8/
Comments on the targets. Play by play.
Play #1. 3rd and 7. The Wide Receiver let it go right through his hands. Had he caught it, it's a first down. Not very impressive. In the NFL, this is a catch for a first down 8 times out of 10.
Play #2. #3rd and goal. Burns allows the short completion ( which is fine ), but makes contact with the receiver after he's out of bounds, I would not flag it, but he needs to be mindful of where and when he can make contact in the NFL as they can flag it.
Play #3. 3rd and 8. This is where a Corner states his worth. Burns in tight man type of coverage. He gives up a 20-yard play. I do not like Burns coverage on Slants or posts. Receivers in these type of patterns get too much separation on him. I noticed this on the video in games 1-4. His man was open
Play #4. Ball threw out of bounds Burns was in a fine position. I do like Burns coverage outside the hash marks.
Play #5. QB threw it while being hit, and should have never thrown a sideline pass like this. Burns makes him pay with an interception. On bad throws, Burns when in position is rather good with size, length, and fine ball skills. Well done.
Play #6 2nd and 12. 4th quarter. VT down. Expect a pass deep. Burns beat for the 33-year touchdown. His head wasn't even looking at the ball, which is part of his problem on lack of awareness. I'm not sure how fast the VT receiver is, but Burns might have to match up issues on faster WR's.
Play #7 2:34 left in the game, VT down 10 points. QB throws a slow pass to the sideline, which might have been tipped. Burns in position picks it off. Excellent play
Play #8 Short pass, Burns doesn't see the receiver button hook. He's 6 yards past the play when the receiver catches it. Nine yards and a first down
Play #9. Burns offers too much of a cushion. Easy first down catch.
play #10 2nd and 4. WR beats Burns, he's open for a catch but the QB throw is uncatchable. In the NFL, this is a completion. It seems Burns is unaware of how to read routes in too many cases, and does not have his eyes on the WR. Like I said before he's raw.
***First, ten plays vs FSU, Va Tech, and CU the QB's in the NFL would be 7 for 10 with an estimated 90 yards against ( Estimated on the dropped passed and bad throws ) 1 TD against, 2 interceptions. ***
The rest of the clips are vs Duke. Hardly a powerhouse type.
Play #11, Burns flagged.
Play #12, Burns in tight man. In position, the throw is high. Solid coverage vs the Duke WR.
Play #13 Burns gives up a first down. Looks like another button hook/ come back route. The WR just circles around and catches it.
Play #14. 3rd and 7. Burns offers too much of a cushion. WR slants in and picks up an easy 1st down. These types of plays agitated me.
Play #15, Burns on tight man. He has his hands all over the receiver. The ball is incomplete, but this is a flag in the NFL.
play #16. 3rd and 3. Burns in tight man. Pass incomplete. Could have been some contact there. The University of Miami coaches grab Burns and get him on the sidelines to avoid a penalty of excessive celebration. Maturity is an issue with Burns.
Play #17. 2nd and 8. Burns off man, Times the play well and knocks the ball lose. Incomplete pass. Good play.
Play #18 3rd and 14. Burns in off man. Duke QB started down the pass, Burns loses the jump ball. First down, 15 yards given up
Play #19 1st and 10. Burns in tight man and he has a pass interference call against him.
This is part 2, of Burns films, games #5 to #8. This format is great as you can watch all action that went Burns way vs. the pass, with replay option for most clips. It's actually superior to watching a full game for an evaluation process, as Burns is easy to locate and evaluate.
Summary if you don't want to read his targeted plays.
Positive: Once again, when Burns is in the position he'll make the QB pay with a bad throw and create a turnover more often than not.
More evaluation is needed. Burns might be a little vulnerable to the deep ball. He gave up one here.
Negatives. Burns let his man get open too often and in some plays where the WR dropped it or the QB pass was poor. In the NFL, these plays are completions. 9 of 18 targets were first down surrendered. In the NFL, It would be more like 11 of 18.
I see major problems when Burns has to defend posts or slants inside the hash marks. He looses too much ground on the breaks.
A bit flag prone in these 18 plays, Burns drew two flags but could have easily had 3-4 flags. The University of Miami coaches had to restrain him to avoid an excessive celebration flag
His route recognition, and ability to read and predict an offense needs a lot of work. I think he's vulnerable to short come back routes, and possible flea flicker like plays.
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...rtie-burns-2015-miami-pass-targets-games-5-8/
Comments on the targets. Play by play.
Play #1. 3rd and 7. The Wide Receiver let it go right through his hands. Had he caught it, it's a first down. Not very impressive. In the NFL, this is a catch for a first down 8 times out of 10.
Play #2. #3rd and goal. Burns allows the short completion ( which is fine ), but makes contact with the receiver after he's out of bounds, I would not flag it, but he needs to be mindful of where and when he can make contact in the NFL as they can flag it.
Play #3. 3rd and 8. This is where a Corner states his worth. Burns in tight man type of coverage. He gives up a 20-yard play. I do not like Burns coverage on Slants or posts. Receivers in these type of patterns get too much separation on him. I noticed this on the video in games 1-4. His man was open
Play #4. Ball threw out of bounds Burns was in a fine position. I do like Burns coverage outside the hash marks.
Play #5. QB threw it while being hit, and should have never thrown a sideline pass like this. Burns makes him pay with an interception. On bad throws, Burns when in position is rather good with size, length, and fine ball skills. Well done.
Play #6 2nd and 12. 4th quarter. VT down. Expect a pass deep. Burns beat for the 33-year touchdown. His head wasn't even looking at the ball, which is part of his problem on lack of awareness. I'm not sure how fast the VT receiver is, but Burns might have to match up issues on faster WR's.
Play #7 2:34 left in the game, VT down 10 points. QB throws a slow pass to the sideline, which might have been tipped. Burns in position picks it off. Excellent play
Play #8 Short pass, Burns doesn't see the receiver button hook. He's 6 yards past the play when the receiver catches it. Nine yards and a first down
Play #9. Burns offers too much of a cushion. Easy first down catch.
play #10 2nd and 4. WR beats Burns, he's open for a catch but the QB throw is uncatchable. In the NFL, this is a completion. It seems Burns is unaware of how to read routes in too many cases, and does not have his eyes on the WR. Like I said before he's raw.
***First, ten plays vs FSU, Va Tech, and CU the QB's in the NFL would be 7 for 10 with an estimated 90 yards against ( Estimated on the dropped passed and bad throws ) 1 TD against, 2 interceptions. ***
The rest of the clips are vs Duke. Hardly a powerhouse type.
Play #11, Burns flagged.
Play #12, Burns in tight man. In position, the throw is high. Solid coverage vs the Duke WR.
Play #13 Burns gives up a first down. Looks like another button hook/ come back route. The WR just circles around and catches it.
Play #14. 3rd and 7. Burns offers too much of a cushion. WR slants in and picks up an easy 1st down. These types of plays agitated me.
Play #15, Burns on tight man. He has his hands all over the receiver. The ball is incomplete, but this is a flag in the NFL.
play #16. 3rd and 3. Burns in tight man. Pass incomplete. Could have been some contact there. The University of Miami coaches grab Burns and get him on the sidelines to avoid a penalty of excessive celebration. Maturity is an issue with Burns.
Play #17. 2nd and 8. Burns off man, Times the play well and knocks the ball lose. Incomplete pass. Good play.
Play #18 3rd and 14. Burns in off man. Duke QB started down the pass, Burns loses the jump ball. First down, 15 yards given up
Play #19 1st and 10. Burns in tight man and he has a pass interference call against him.
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http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/artie-burns?id=2555344
I've been saying this from the start: Burns is raw. They have lots of work to do before he is legit. If he tries to _just_ relay on this athletic ability, we are in trouble.
He also needs to tone his act down a bit. If he comes in too cocky and brash. this league will punish him. He also tends to draw too many flags.
But, I think he has all the tools. It's just a matter of how far can he develop. They think he is mature and driven due to his family situation. Let's hope so. Physical skills alone = Justin Gilbert.
http://thebiglead.com/2015/11/30/ju...-aloof-and-a-loner-that-angers-his-teammates/
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Pop,
Most teams say they draft what's on tape over any other medium.
Honestly, I think his best position if he developed better reads and instincts might be free safety as he really excels at jump balls and can converts bad passes into interceptions. A large Seattle Seahawk type of safety if you will.
Burns is at his best when the sees play is in front of him with eyes on the football and at his worse while in coverage while the play is developing for the first 10-15 yards or so.
As a corner, he does not have the good quickness or top speed...at least that what the films says. To me, it's just above average in both areas. He is long and tall, but he's badly beaten on quick slants and posts giving up too much real estate on these routes. His route recognition is terrible, and if he was faster/quicker, I think he would not give up the short stuff as easily as he did on film. While Burns lived on being a good athlete in college, he's not a Rod Woodson or Deion Sanders type. Not even close, and it he can't learn a lot more will be a bust in the NFL.
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watching the clip just a couple of times I can agree with you that he's raw (and this was obvious from the get go) but he definitly has the tools and I like that he made some plays (ints, broken passes, even that slam tackle on the sideline), always looking for the ball
Some of those catches allowed look like with a decent zone scheme wouldn't have been catches at all, he should've had some help inside on that 3rd play slant, the WR catched the ball practically in the middle of the field. In the short curls he was playing off but was it by design of his coach or was it on him?
the TD allowed was the only one where he looked really bad, looks like he hesitated trying to jump ahead on the throw and paid for it.
I really liked how he timed those jumps on the ints and how he competed for the ball in the air. Raw? yes of course, that's why he wasn't an early 1st but he definitly looks like a talented kid that with decent coaching will become a starter by his second season. Having Gay and Cockrell we don't need to rush him and definitly he's destined to play outside the marks, not in the slot
Some of those catches allowed look like with a decent zone scheme wouldn't have been catches at all, he should've had some help inside on that 3rd play slant, the WR catched the ball practically in the middle of the field. In the short curls he was playing off but was it by design of his coach or was it on him?
the TD allowed was the only one where he looked really bad, looks like he hesitated trying to jump ahead on the throw and paid for it.
I really liked how he timed those jumps on the ints and how he competed for the ball in the air. Raw? yes of course, that's why he wasn't an early 1st but he definitly looks like a talented kid that with decent coaching will become a starter by his second season. Having Gay and Cockrell we don't need to rush him and definitly he's destined to play outside the marks, not in the slot
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Well, we will see what happens. IF he applies strong work ethic, he could be decent, maybe. He certainly isn't a Woodson or Sanders - or he would have been taken in the top 8. He is probably a 2-3rd round grade. What concerns me is the "raw" title describes our 2nd pick as well.
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