Burns on film

[Coach]

Earlier in the thread you advanced the argument that you cannot judge Burns in a vacuum, you have to judge him by comparing him to other DBs in the draft. Does this same thought process apply to the Steelers FO?.

Driver,

I will offer a compare and contrast to another corner. Just send me the link for a snap count.

As for the front office thought process, I think they reached because the problem hit a point of no return. Otherwise they accept the offer to trade down. Football Focus said square peg into round hole


25. Pittsburgh Steelers: Artie Burns | Grade: D

In a mismatch of skillsets and scheme, the Steelers take Burns with the hope that they can develop his 6-foot plus frame into a dependable player. The problem here, much like the Apple pick to the Giants, is that the Steelers played more zone coverage than any team in the league last year and that’s where Burns has his struggles. His +2.8 coverage grade ranked 42nd in the draft class, and though he does show skills as a man coverage cornerback, but his overall game remains raw. If Pittsburgh plans on altering their scheme to play more man coverage, this pick makes more sense, but at this point, it’s an example of a cornerback’s size and speed moving him up a draft board at the expense of his on-field play. - Pro football focus

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-round-by-round-ranking-of-2016s-best-nfl-cb-prospects/

 

[kev4heels]

Deljzc,

We agree here. The truth is both Colbert and Tomlin owe their jobs to Ben. He makes up for so much and without him, the team lacks the talent drafted from 2007- present and coaching skills to make up for it.

As a GM, Colbert misses too often in the draft, has cap issues do to bad signings, and hasn't hit on trading away picks for players ( Example Boykin and Scobee ).

Colbert seems best drafting offensive players. Brown, Bell, DeCastro, Gilbert, ect.. He's also pretty good at picking up rookie free agents, and other teams left for dead on wire claims.

It's on defense where I have my issues with Colbert. The Woodley and Allen deals cost us dead money in cap space, and J Jones, and Z Hood were bad first round picks.

My issues with Tomlin has already been stated here before. No need to re-type them.

If you are referring to Colbert missing on 1st rounders, you're expectations are too high.
Here is a list of 1st rounders since KC has taken over:

2000 8 Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State
2001 19 Casey Hampton DT Texas
2002 30 Kendall Simmons G Auburn
2003 16 Troy Polamalu DB USC
2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (OH)
2005 30 Heath Miller TE Virginia
2006 25 Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State [n]
2007 15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State
2008 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
2009 32 Evander Hood DT Missouri
2010 18 Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
2011 31 Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
2012 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
2013 17 Jarvis Jones LB Georgia
2014 15 Ryan Shazier LB Ohio State
2015 22 Bud Dupree LB Kentucky
2016 25 Artie Burns CB Miami

outside of JJ, which one has been a bust? I guess you could say Hood but he did play well at times.
he was a square peg for a round hole. so, I will give you that. where else do you see turds in the 1st round?

if you are going to mark him for 2nd round blunders, I can go understand a bit. however, you also have to look at all the mid/late round gems
he has taken. the draft is a crapshoot and the Steelers FO is not immune to it. however, I think Colbert has done a pretty good job IMO.

 

[Coach]

If you are referring to Colbert missing on 1st rounders, you're expectations are too high.
Here is a list of 1st rounders since KC has taken over:

2000 8 Plaxico Burress WR Michigan State
2001 19 Casey Hampton DT Texas
2002 30 Kendall Simmons G Auburn
2003 16 Troy Polamalu DB USC
2004 11 Ben Roethlisberger QB Miami (OH)
2005 30 Heath Miller TE Virginia
2006 25 Santonio Holmes WR Ohio State [n]
2007 15 Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State
2008 23 Rashard Mendenhall RB Illinois
2009 32 Evander Hood DT Missouri
2010 18 Maurkice Pouncey C Florida
2011 31 Cameron Heyward DE Ohio State
2012 24 David DeCastro G Stanford
2013 17 Jarvis Jones LB Georgia
2014 15 Ryan Shazier LB Ohio State
2015 22 Bud Dupree LB Kentucky
2016 25 Artie Burns CB Miami

outside of JJ, which one has been a bust? I guess you could say Hood but he did play well at times.
he was a square peg for a round hole. so, I will give you that. where else do you see turds in the 1st round?

if you are going to mark him for 2nd round blunders, I can go understand a bit. however, you also have to look at all the mid/late round gems
he has taken. the draft is a crapshoot and the Steelers FO is not immune to it. however, I think Colbert has done a pretty good job IMO.

When I say he missed too often in the draft, I mean all seven rounds combined.

Hood, in my opinion, was a first round bust. Mendenhall outside of one good season was a disappointment, and his fumble killed the teams chances in the Super Bowl.

We can pretty much judge most of the players selected from 2000-2012 as good overall, outside of those two, but Simmons was just an average guard...not a good pick for round one

My main issues are from 2013 to present in round one.

If you want to talk about round two and three, list the players selected, and you'll see several misses.

 

[Litos]

The draft is a crap shoot, there's a % of success for each round that is way smaller than you would think and the Steelers are in general terms way above that %. TMC used to have this info and share it here, it is very useful to reconsider the crazy expectations.
Every team has hits and misses, the Steelers are standing well in the line of success %. So even though Tombert have had some head scratchers (hello Jarvis Jones, everyone knew it was a terrible 1st round pick), they are still way better than most teams

 

[Coach]

The draft is a crap shoot, there's a % of success for each round that is way smaller than you would think and the Steelers are in general terms way above that %. TMC used to have this info and share it here, it is very useful to reconsider the crazy expectations.
Every team has hits and misses, the Steelers are standing well in the line of success %. So even though Tombert have had some head scratchers (hello Jarvis Jones, everyone knew it was a terrible 1st round pick), they are still way better than most teams

I'd argue it's Ben, Ben and Ben that make Tombert look good.. And even with him, we are 1-4 in our last 5 playoffs games with the one vs a back up QB and dumb Cincy penalties late.

The quality of the starters has gone down since Cowher left ( A fact ) and the coaching and leaderships have slipped a bit in my opinion.

Look at out 2010 super bowl roster and compare it to now, and you'll see my point.

Colbert should have let Troy, Ike and Hampton gone 1-2 years sooner, instead of sucking cap space, and bought proven replacements. Our entire phiolpshy on DB's, picking the shorter and slower cost us big time. Outside of QB and pass rusher, CB's and S' mean a lot more these days.

 

[Litos]

I'd argue it's Ben, Ben and Ben that make Tombert look good.. And even with him, we are 1-4 in our last 5 playoffs games with the one vs a back up QB and dumb Cincy penalties late.

The quality of the starters has gone down since Cowher left ( A fact ) and the coaching and leaderships have slipped a bit in my opinion.

Look at out 2010 super bowl roster and compare it to now, and you'll see my point.

Colbert should have let Troy, Ike and Hampton gone 1-2 years sooner, instead of sucking cap space, and bought proven replacements. Our entire phiolpshy on DB's, picking the shorter and slower cost us big time. Outside of QB and pass rusher, CB's and S' mean a lot more these days.

without a doubt Ben is a difference maker, as any HOF QB is. But you see the rest of the team and there's no denial that there's talent, a small prove of that is how the Steelers fared when Ben went down, adding Bell's absence to it.
Starting Lineup:
Antonio Brown, Pro Bowler, Best WR in the game
LeVeon Bell: Best RB in the game, if not for cheap shots we might have another Ring
Wheaton: Good value for a 3rd rounder, and not an early one
Martavis Bryant: yeah, he's a headcase but still is great value for a 4th even missing the season,
Gilbert, ProBowl candidate, took time to get there but he is a good player
DeCastro, ProBowl candidate
Pouncey overpaid but still ProBowl candidate
Foster: good value for a late pick, and kept on the cheap
Villanueva: great value, got a starter out of a cut player
Nix: love the kid's play, he's a keeper

Defense is where the warts show up:
Heyward + Tuitt: the best of our team on D, well worth their picks
Dupree: looked fine on his rookie season, shows talent
Shazier: if healthy a true game changer
Timmons: Solid starter for 6 years, maybe a bit high drafted but you couldn't do much better on the long run, yet you could do waaay worse
Jarvis: the stinker
Gay: solid vet presence on the cheap, a 5th rounder turned starter
Cockrell: See Villanueva
Golson: injury hurt his rookie season, hope he's a contributor
Golden: late pick, good value, solid on ST and held the fort when needed
Mitchell: good FA signing, took a season to gel, injuries might have hurt his first season on the team too

That's the FO work, compare that to Most teams and the talent is above them.

If the top 3 rookies contribute (as rotational guys) this season watch out

 

[POP]

Defense is where the warts show up:
Heyward + Tuitt: the best of our team on D, well worth their picks

Both first rounders, but both turned out well. Way better than Hood.

Dupree: looked fine on his rookie season, shows talent

He wore down by seasons end. Could have a big season...I am thinking 12 sacks.

Shazier: if healthy a true game changer

Injuries a concern, but he has the kind of burst as did Polamalu, while weighing 40 more lbs. That is outstanding. If he can find a way to stay healthy, he will end up a tremendous player

Timmons: Solid starter for 6 years, maybe a bit high drafted but you couldn't do much better on the long run, yet you could do waaay worse

Gets way less love than he deserves. He isn't hall of fame worthy, but he is solid, never misses playing time or gets in any trouble. Timmons deserves more love.

Jarvis: the stinker

He's the turd in the punchbowl.

Gay: solid vet presence on the cheap, a 5th rounder turned starter
Cockrell: See Villanueva
Golson: injury hurt his rookie season, hope he's a contributor
Golden: late pick, good value, solid on ST and held the fort when needed

When he's been in, he hasn't done terribly. Not a star, but not rubbish.

Mitchell: good FA signing, took a season to gel, injuries might have hurt his first season on the team too

He was better last season, but most of us just don't like him. That play where he celebrated a tackle, which caused him to not even realize there was a fumble, was an example of why most just don't like him. We ended up getting the ball but he was an *** clown for celebrating while the ball was on the ground and he didn't even know it.

 

[Harry_BZAC]

"Both first rounders, but both turned out well. Way better than Hood."

Tuitt was a 2nd rounder in 2014. Dude if not for the dreaded Dri Archer pick the 1st four picks in 2014 are incredible:

1. Shazier
2. Tuitt
3. Archer (boo)
4. M. Bryant

 

[antdrewjosh]

Bucky Brooks Ranks Steelers’ Roster Second In The NFL

Le'Veon Bell Antonio Brown




BY MATTHEW MARCZI MAY 25, 2016 AT 11:00 AM
While it is certainly nothing that we didn’t already know, it’s always nice to see the talent of this Pittsburgh Steelers roster received its due accolades from the national media, and they got just that earlier this week on the NFL’s website, with columnist Bucky Brooks deeming that the Steelers have the second-most talented roster in the league.

The only team that finished ahead of the Steelers in Brooks’ list of the top 10 most talented rosters was the Seahawks, citing the fact that they have consistently been a Super Bowl contender for the past four seasons and crediting the “Legion of Boom” secondary that boasts three All-Pro performers.

Brooks views the Seattle roster as boasting nine blue-chip players, along with three more players on the rise. In comparison, Brooks sees seven blue-chip players on the Steelers’ roster, with another three players on the rise, although the latter contains a fairly substantial caveat.

Among those three risers listed was wide receiver Martavis Bryant, who has already proven his talent on the field during his first two seasons, which consists thus far of 21 regular season games and three postseason games, but, of course, he is suspended for the entire duration of the 2016 season, already effective, so he’s not exactly a factor right now.

The blue chips on the roster, according to Brooks, are quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, running back Le’Veon Bell, wide receiver Antonio Brown, center Maurkice Pouncey, guard David DeCastro, defensive end Cameron Heyward, and linebacker Lawrence Timmons.

I’m certain that nobody will bat an eye at the first six—the first five have all been named a first-team All-Pro or to multiple Pro Bowls—though no doubt many will question if Timmons, who made his first Pro Bowl in 2014, is still deserving of being placed in that category.

The other two rising players listed other than Bryant are defensive end Stephon Tuitt and linebacker Ryan Shazier. All three of those players—all from the 2014 draft—should be givens based purely on what they have done on the field thus far, particularly Tuitt, who is on the fast track to that blue chip status, I think.

Brooks writes that the Steelers “could be downright scary in 2016”, describing their roster as “chock-full of blue-chip talent on both sides of the ball”. He calls the offensive triplet of Roethlisberger, Bell, and Brown “the most explosive” trio “in the NFL today”, with all three “ranking among the absolute best at their respective positions”.

In terms of the defense, “the emergence of Timmons and Heyward as impact players along the front seven could held the defense return to the ranks of the elite and help fuel a Super Bowl run”. Heyward could be fairly described as emerging, but Timmons is a nine-year veteran who is closer to falling than rising at this stage of his career.

Obviously, the team is hoping to add to that list of defensive risers with young talent such as Bud Dupree, Artie Burns, Senquez Golson, Sean Davis, and Javon Hargrave. But we already knew the Steelers have the talent to win. The questions that now remain are whether or not they can put all the pieces together, and stay healthy in the process.

 

[Coach]

without a doubt Ben is a difference maker, as any HOF QB is. But you see the rest of the team and there's no denial that there's talent,

In the past three seasons, the Steelers were 8-8, 8-8, and 10-6. The 10-6 year was one where we finally won a playoff game ( 1-4 in the last 5 played ) thanks to Dalton being out and Cincinnati being stupid. Otherwise, it's 0-5. I disagree on the talent level a bit.

In my view, we do not have good talent on defense, and it takes Ben to make the offense work. Without Ben, AB was badly impacted.

I view the talent such.

Offense: Very good overall running or passing

Defense: Below average vs the pass, average vs the run.

Special Teams: average. Great kicker. Below average punter. Decent kick coverage units.

Coaching: Average. Great OL Coach.

Pretty much reflects our achievements in the past three seasons.

 

[POP]

"Both first rounders, but both turned out well. Way better than Hood."

Tuitt was a 2nd rounder in 2014. Dude if not for the dreaded Dri Archer pick the 1st four picks in 2014 are incredible:

1. Shazier
2. Tuitt
3. Archer (boo)
4. M. Bryant

My bad, I was mistaken because everyone kept saying Tuitt was a first round talent. I love that pick. And you're right: If not for the midget turd, those 1st four picks would have been outstanding. Three out of four is still strong.

 

[Coach]

Bucky Brooks Ranks Steelers’ Roster Second In The NFL

Le'Veon Bell Antonio Brown




BY MATTHEW MARCZI MAY 25, 2016 AT 11:00 AM
While it is certainly nothing that we didn’t already know, it’s always nice to see the talent of this Pittsburgh Steelers roster received its due accolades from the national media, and they got just that earlier this week on the NFL’s website, with columnist Bucky Brooks deeming that the Steelers have the second-most talented roster in the league.

The only team that finished ahead of the Steelers in Brooks’ list of the top 10 most talented rosters was the Seahawks, citing the fact that they have consistently been a Super Bowl contender for the past four seasons and crediting the “Legion of Boom” secondary that boasts three All-Pro performers.

Brooks views the Seattle roster as boasting nine blue-chip players, along with three more players on the rise. In comparison, Brooks sees seven blue-chip players on the Steelers’ roster, with another three players on the rise, although the latter contains a fairly substantial caveat.

Among those three risers listed was wide receiver Martavis Bryant, who has already proven his talent on the field during his first two seasons, which consists thus far of 21 regular season games and three postseason games, but, of course, he is suspended for the entire duration of the 2016 season, already effective, so he’s not exactly a factor right now.

The blue chips on the roster, according to Brooks, are quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, running back Le’Veon Bell, wide receiver Antonio Brown, center Maurkice Pouncey, guard David DeCastro, defensive end Cameron Heyward, and linebacker Lawrence Timmons.

I’m certain that nobody will bat an eye at the first six—the first five have all been named a first-team All-Pro or to multiple Pro Bowls—though no doubt many will question if Timmons, who made his first Pro Bowl in 2014, is still deserving of being placed in that category.

The other two rising players listed other than Bryant are defensive end Stephon Tuitt and linebacker Ryan Shazier. All three of those players—all from the 2014 draft—should be givens based purely on what they have done on the field thus far, particularly Tuitt, who is on the fast track to that blue chip status, I think.

Brooks writes that the Steelers “could be downright scary in 2016”, describing their roster as “chock-full of blue-chip talent on both sides of the ball”. He calls the offensive triplet of Roethlisberger, Bell, and Brown “the most explosive” trio “in the NFL today”, with all three “ranking among the absolute best at their respective positions”.

In terms of the defense, “the emergence of Timmons and Heyward as impact players along the front seven could held the defense return to the ranks of the elite and help fuel a Super Bowl run”. Heyward could be fairly described as emerging, but Timmons is a nine-year veteran who is closer to falling than rising at this stage of his career.

Obviously, the team is hoping to add to that list of defensive risers with young talent such as Bud Dupree, Artie Burns, Senquez Golson, Sean Davis, and Javon Hargrave. But we already knew the Steelers have the talent to win. The questions that now remain are whether or not they can put all the pieces together, and stay healthy in the process.

Well if we have the 2nd best roster, our production is lacking. I have hardped on Coaching. GM moves in free agency, and leadership here. Yes-- we have some blue chip players, but we have too many white chip starters at CB, S, and OLB. Timmons is very good, not great, and he's cap number this season is $15,131,250. He's not worth that amount.

I also think our salary cap has allocted too much money to certians positons that have less overall to due with winning. Poncey has a cap number of $15,104,000 this season. DeCastro a realtive bargin compared to his teamate only costs $8,070,000 in cap space. Between the two over 23,000,000 in cap space is being used. If possible ( I know you can't wave a magic wand and quickly switch players ) I'd rather use this money on 2016 free agents like pass rusher Oliver Vernon and corner Sean Smith. We'd be a much better team if that could be done. Its pretty much proven we play just fine without Poucney anyway.

 

[Litos]

Well if we have the 2nd best roster, our production is lacking. I have hardped on Coaching. GM moves in free agency, and leadership here. Yes-- we have some blue chip players, but we have too many white chip starters at CB, S, and OLB. Timmons is very good, not great, and he's cap number this season is $15,131,250. He's not worth that amount.

I also think our salary cap has allocted too much money to certians positons that have less overall to due with winning. Poncey has a cap number of $15,104,000 this season. DeCastro a realtive bargin compared to his teamate only costs $8,070,000 in cap space. Between the two over 23,000,000 in cap space is being used. If possible ( I know you can't wave a magic wand and quickly switch players ) I'd rather use this money on 2016 free agents like pass rusher Oliver Vernon and corner Sean Smith. We'd be a much better team if that could be done. Its pretty much proven we play just fine without Poucney anyway.

you know why the cap on Timmons is so high, his contract has been restructured to free up cap in previous years, this year his cap should be 8,75M, the rest is prorated so he's not a good example to use.
Maurkice Pouncey's cap hit this season is 10,5M (from http://overthecap.com/player/maurkice-pouncey/1621/, that's 5M less than what you are saying

 

[Litos]

In the past three seasons, the Steelers were 8-8, 8-8, and 10-6. The 10-6 year was one where we finally won a playoff game ( 1-4 in the last 5 played ) thanks to Dalton being out and Cincinnati being stupid. Otherwise, it's 0-5. I disagree on the talent level a bit.

In my view, we do not have good talent on defense, and it takes Ben to make the offense work. Without Ben, AB was badly impacted.

I view the talent such.

Offense: Very good overall running or passing

Defense: Below average vs the pass, average vs the run.

Special Teams: average. Great kicker. Below average punter. Decent kick coverage units.

Coaching: Average. Great OL Coach.

Pretty much reflects our achievements in the past three seasons.

I think it's been part bad coaching and part roster restructure, the good thing is that the Steelers FO is so good that they don't need to suck for a decade like other teams to restructure, so many vets left (Polamalu, Keisel, Farrior, Foote, Taylor, Clark + the others that had left before) that the team just had to go through the process of restocking talent and it caused those two bad seasons

 

[Coach]

you know why the cap on Timmons is so high, his contract has been restructured to free up cap in previous years, this year his cap should be 8,75M, the rest is prorated so he's not a good example to use.
Maurkice Pouncey's cap hit this season is 10,5M (from http://overthecap.com/player/maurkice-pouncey/1621/, that's 5M less than what you are saying

Kicking the can down the road is like adding debt. You have to pay for it.

I use over the cap for salary information. They say Timmons cap number is 15.1 million in 2016.. Timmons base is $8,750,000, but his prorated amount is $6,381,250. When you add the two it's a $15,131,250 cap number. Moving Timmons money around had to be done thanks to dead money and mistakes on Woodely, Allen, ect...

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/pittsburgh-steelers/

 

[Litos]

Kicking the can down the road is like adding debt. You have to pay for it.

I use over the cap for salary information. They say Timmons cap number is 15.1 million in 2016.. Timmons base is $8,750,000, but his prorated amount is $6,381,250. When you add the two it's a $15,131,250 cap number. Moving Timmons money around had to be done thanks to dead money and mistakes on Woodely, Allen, ect...

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/pittsburgh-steelers/

You clearly said the Team was allocating too much money on the wrong positions and called on timmons contract, implying the team gave him a 15M contract for this year. Don't mix things to snivel out of another crappy assertion

 

[POP]

Well if we have the 2nd best roster, our production is lacking. I have hardped on Coaching. GM moves in free agency, and leadership here. Yes-- we have some blue chip players, but we have too many white chip starters at CB, S, and OLB. Timmons is very good, not great, and he's cap number this season is $15,131,250. He's not worth that amount.

I also think our salary cap has allocted too much money to certians positons that have less overall to due with winning. Poncey has a cap number of $15,104,000 this season. DeCastro a realtive bargin compared to his teamate only costs $8,070,000 in cap space. Between the two over 23,000,000 in cap space is being used. If possible ( I know you can't wave a magic wand and quickly switch players ) I'd rather use this money on 2016 free agents like pass rusher Oliver Vernon and corner Sean Smith. We'd be a much better team if that could be done. Its pretty much proven we play just fine without Poucney anyway.

$15 million for Timmons? WTF is wrong with these people? Why even bother to write a contract that includes a year with such a moronic figure? What is the purpose?

If they keep LT at that #, they are total idiots. I like LT a lot, more than most. I feel he is underrated and underappreciated. But paying him $15 mill a year is preposterous. His # should be no higher than 8, and even at that, it's a little rich.

That # makes LT the highest paid ILB in the NFL. No F-in way. Clean up your act, Pittsburgh.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/linebacker/

 

[Coach]

You clearly said the Team was allocating too much money on the wrong positions and called on timmons contract, implying the team gave him a 15M contract for this year. Don't mix things to snivel out of another crappy assertion

And I'll stand there. We are allocating too much money to ILB, G and C You tell me how much in cap space we spent here. The Steelers can shuffle the money around, but in the end, it costs cap space.

Now be honest, don't you think that money would be better spent on a proven veteran pass rusher and corner in free agency? I do. 100%, and I'd take the projected 3rd round compensatory pick for losing Pouncey while doing it.

 

[Litos]

$15 million for Timmons? WTF is wrong with these people? Why even bother to write a contract that includes a year with such a moronic figure? What is the purpose?

If they keep LT at that #, they are total idiots. I like LT a lot, more than most. I feel he is underrated and underappreciated. But paying him $15 mill a year is preposterous. His # should be no higher than 8, and even at that, it's a little rich.

That # makes LT the highest paid ILB in the NFL. No F-in way. Clean up your act, Pittsburgh.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/linebacker/

the one that has to clean up it's act is Coach, talking **** out of his *** and it isn't the first or second time. I already answered to that post, go check yourself in spotrac or overthecap what's timmons´ contract situation

 

[Coach]

$15 million for Timmons? WTF is wrong with these people? Why even bother to write a contract that includes a year with such a moronic figure? What is the purpose?

If they keep LT at that #, they are total idiots. I like LT a lot, more than most. I feel he is underrated and underappreciated. But paying him $15 mill a year is preposterous. His # should be no higher than 8, and even at that, it's a little rich.

That # makes LT the highest paid ILB in the NFL. No F-in way. Clean up your act, Pittsburgh.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap-hit/linebacker/

No disrespect to Timmons at all. He's a very good player, who's durable. He's just not worth the contract the Steelers gave him. Ben and AB are worth their deals. Pouncey and Timmons are not. And I do not want to break the bank on DeCastro. He's a very good player, but he's a guard. Not a QB, Pass rusher, LT, CB or star skill player on offense.

One reason the Steelers have little money to spend in free agency is they overpay for players who play positions aren't as important to winning. See Pouncey and Timmons, who could be the highest paid linebacker in the NFL in 2016.

The other reason why we have little money to spend in free agency is bad second contracts given, dead money, and overpaying for veterans and not cutting them soon enough.

 

[Litos]

And I'll stand there. We are allocating too much money to ILB, G and C You tell me how much in cap space we spent here. The Steelers can shuffle the money around, but in the end, it costs cap space.

Now be honest, don't you think that money would be better spent on a proven veteran pass rusher and corner in free agency? I do. 100%, and I'd take the projected 3rd round compensatory pick for losing Pouncey while doing it.

First, you were dead wrong on the number figures. It's not the same or even close 8M to 15M (Timmons) or 10,5 to 15M (Pouncey)
Second, it isn't simple math where you don't sign Pouncey or Timmons and the cap money will give you a top Rusher and/or Corner, for example the numbers for Cornes this FA period were just ridiculously crazy. Yet we kep Gay for less than 3M a year, I wanted Amukamara before the FA period started, I assumed (Waaay Wrong) that he could be had for 8M years per season. Truth is I wouldn't pay 15M for Nelson or any other CB, but I would pay 10M for a ProBowl caliber G/C
The team drafted a talented player and extended him due to a number of factors which we can suppose: talent, effort, health, interest in staying. They figured Pouncey and Timmons were worth keeping at a high level price, I would have bargained a bit but you can't blame them for keeping them. Is not like they missed out on Revis or Watt because of it

 

[Litos]

No disrespect to Timmons at all. He's a very good player, who's durable. He's just not worth the contract the Steelers gave him. Ben and AB are worth their deals. Pouncey and Timmons are not. And I do not want to break the bank on DeCastro. He's a very good player, but he's a guard. Not a QB, Pass rusher, LT, CB or star skill player on offense.

One reason the Steelers have little money to spend in free agency is they overpay for players who play positions aren't as important to winning. See Pouncey and Timmons, who could be the highest paid linebacker in the NFL in 2016.

The other reason why we have little money to spend in free agency is bad second contracts given, dead money, and overpaying for veterans and not cutting them soon enough.

Timmons might be overpaid by 1 million per year, no more, the same goes for Pouncey, let's remember once again that someone rolled on his leg, freak injury.
SO you have 2 extra millions on the team but need a C and an ILB, both positions that the Steelers give extra care. What super FA would you sign with those extra 2 M?

The biggest mistakes I've seen lately are the Cortez Allen contract (which was somewhat similar to Antonio Brown situation, only that AB became a SuperStar but both were a medium risk/high reward kind of gamble) and Worilds tag handling. The rest, give or take have been very decent

 

[Coach]

the one that has to clean up it's act is Coach, talking **** out of his *** and it isn't the first or second time. I already answered to that post, go check yourself in spotrac or overthecap what's timmons´ contract situation

You don't have to reply to my posts. Timmons cap value for 2016 is 15M. Why is another topic. I quoted a source and posted it here. Sorry if that's not good enough. Argue it with over the cap.

But just so the readers know, you can answer the below questions:

1 ) Do you think TImmon is overpaid?

2 ) Would you rather allocated tons of cap space to C and G, or would the money have been better spent on positions that have more to do with winning games like Pass Rusher and Corner, which have been huge needs for the Steelers. And as stated the odds say we'd pick up two extra 3rd round comp picks when another teams signs these two in free agency. You can find a solid center or guard in round three, or even trade up to get one. Some of our best guards and centers in franshice histroy were taken outside of round one.

No one is going to dock you karma points for disagreeing with Colbert. Just saying...

 

[Litos]

You don't have to reply to my posts. Timmons cap value for 2016 is 15M. Why is another topic. I quoted a source and posted it here. Sorry if that's not good enough. Argue it with over the cap.

But just so the readers know, you can answer the below questions:

1 ) Do you think TImmon is overpaid?

2 ) Would you rather allocated tons of cap space to C and G, or would the money have been better spent on positions that have more to do with winning games like Pass Rusher and Corner, which have been huge needs for the Steelers. And as stated the odds say we'd pick up two extra 3rd round comp picks when another teams signs these two in free agency. You can find a solid center or guard in round three, or even trade up to get one. Some of our best guards and centers in franshice histroy were taken outside of round one.

No one is going to dock you karma points for disagreeing with Colbert. Just saying...

I already answered those in my previous post. And yes, it's not good enough. When you post

Timmons is very good, not great, and he's cap number this season is $15,131,250. He's not worth that amount.

any person that isn't aware of the cap moves made in previous years would think that the Steelers gave Timmons a contract where one year was worth 15M, if you don't believe me see Pop reaction to your post. If you are going to **** on the FO for Any player's contract you better give the total value and the total years or the average so everyone is on the same context. For example: The Steelers gave timmons a 9,5M/y avg contract, which yes I find it high (actually is the 3rd highest in the NFL) but is not like they broke the bank on him

if you or any other member posts that

Poncey has a cap number of $15,104,000 this season

out of your *** to criticize the FO without a reason I'll call you out on it, yet you haven't mentioned it again, like it never happened. I take people more seriously when they recognize their mistakes. I always accept corrections around here without backpedaling or playing possum

 

[Coach]

Timmons might be overpaid by 1 million per year, no more, the same goes for Pouncey, let's remember once again that someone rolled on his leg, freak injury.
SO you have 2 extra millions on the team but need a C and an ILB, both positions that the Steelers give extra care. What super FA would you sign with those extra 2 M?

The biggest mistakes I've seen lately are the Cortez Allen contract (which was somewhat similar to Antonio Brown situation, only that AB became a SuperStar but both were a medium risk/high reward kind of gamble) and Worilds tag handling. The rest, give or take have been very decent

BUZZ WRONG! Give me Timmons full contract amount, and let me pick the free agent who was out there for that year.

The other option is I think Timmons is worth a lot less than the Steelers offered, same as you. He might have taken 5-8 million less overall, and that is room to shop for a decent free agent.

I would have let Pouncey walk period. He's overrated, injury prone, and its proven we don't miss him much when he's out. Now, tell me the free agents out there for that year and I use the Pouncey contract money elsewhere.

In the end, you can weigh the value of Timmons and Pouncey vs. the two I would players I selected, then if possible admit my idea would be better. Of course, I have the benefit of hindsight. It's the foresight thinking on how the Steelers manage the salary cap that needs improvement.


PS: The Franchise money for an OL player these days is 13.1 million. If the Steelers give Decastro close to that amount, they are fools.