Burns on film

[Litos]

I know one of the largest UM boosters, who at events sees and said hello to Al Golden, his best bud Mark D'Onofrio who was horrible as the defensive coordinator. I also hear first-hand information about University of Miami football, some of which never hits the press.

I also attend 2-3 games a year, sometimes sitting near the greased hair of Drew Rosenhaus. Is that good enough for you?

Now that Mark Richt has taken over as the head coach, the program has a real shot to be relevant again. The high school football talent down here is the best in the nation. The University of Miami is based on an 180-mile radius of this talent.

If the school upgrades their work out facilities, watch out!

The main problem with UM recruits is not talent. Its lack of smarts and sometimes character. A good coaching staff that is respected and can teach can help to fix those problems.

But back to Burns, he wasn't fully committed to football and is raw, just as the film shows. Now if you want to break down these films clips, I will welcome a football debate if you disagree with me.

Nice backpedaling from Davis discussion to Burns...

 

[Coach]

Nice backpedaling from Davis discussion to Burns...

This is a Burns thread. I answered the UM question you asked. I have my doubts on Davis ability to cover coming into the NFL too. I'll be a sport. Post a Davis video thread like this ( not highlights ) and I'll break it down just as well.

 

[Litos]

let's recount, Ark says:

Didn't they move Davis to CB in college because they were shorthanded there and had someone else who could play S?

Then you answer

That and he wasn't doing a good job in coverage. If Davis was a good corner, the NFL would draft him as a corner.

So Obviously You were talking here about Davis, so I question you:

How do you know he wasn't doing a good job at S? Do you personally know the UM coaches ? Or you found it "scouting" 4 minutes of tape?

when I said UM in a post referring Davis being moved from S to CB I meant University of Maryland, what does Burns college have to do in this conversation? Maybe I should have been more specific to avoid making you confused

This is a Burns thread. I answered the UM question you asked. I have my doubts on Davis ability to cover coming into the NFL too. I'll be a sport. Post a Davis video thread like this ( not highlights ) and I'll break it down just as well.

see how you backpedaled to Burns? Suddenly you don't mention anything about DAVIS being moved to CB "because of his lack of coverage skills", honestly this assessment is dumb as a box of rocks and Ark caught it inmediately.

As your tape breaking offer, no thanks, I rather trust in other people (Like Deljzic or TMC) or even my own eyes. But thanks anyway

 

[21STEELERS21]

How does a DB in college get 300 plus tackles in his college career and lack football instincts.

Isn't that quite a few tackles that Davis had?

Ike Taylor had weaknesses too, but we liked his potential when we drafted him.

 

[antdrewjosh]

All I know is Burns managed to become a first round pick and he wasn't fully dedicated to perfecting his craft. Now he is. No more track. His family is going to be in better situations. He has all the athletic ability needed now he will get the coaching he needs.

 

[POP]

let's recount, Ark says:


Then you answer


So Obviously You were talking here about Davis, so I question you:


when I said UM in a post referring Davis being moved from S to CB I meant University of Maryland, what does Burns college have to do in this conversation? Maybe I should have been more specific to avoid making you confused



see how you backpedaled to Burns? Suddenly you don't mention anything about DAVIS being moved to CB "because of his lack of coverage skills", honestly this assessment is dumb as a box of rocks and Ark caught it inmediately.

As your tape breaking offer, no thanks, I rather trust in other people (Like Deljzic or TMC) or even my own eyes. But thanks anyway

Someone's caught a case of "I-can't-stop-being-a-dick-itise."

 

[POP]

How does a DB in college get 300 plus tackles in his college career and lack football instincts.

IDK, Shamarko had 263 tackles in college, 88 as a Sr. Do you think he has good instincts, other than instincts on how to be excessively stupid?

Ant Smith had 71 tackles and SIX picks as a Sr. How were his instincts?

Isn't that quite a few tackles that Davis had?

Sure, but if you get lost in coverage, you can't play S in the NFL, especially these days.

Ike Taylor had weaknesses too, but we liked his potential when we drafted him.

We also got him in the 4th round, not the 2nd. Ike was a gamble from a small school who happened to pay off. Mark Madden said he had no shot at making the team; shows you what he knows.

Bottom line: If Davis gets lost in coverage, he won't make the field. If your safeties are so focuses on trying to knock players' heads off, but lose their deep coverage and allow big plays, they can't cut it in the NFL.

 

[Litos]

Someone's caught a case of "I-can't-stop-being-a-dick-itise."

Now I can't reply to senseless posts?
Are you coach's defender? If so do it with arguments

 

[Litos]

Bottom line: If Davis gets lost in coverage, he won't make the field. If your safeties are so focuses on trying to knock players' heads off, but lose their deep coverage and allow big plays, they can't cut it in the NFL.

Agree, but even Polamalu played limited time in his rookie year. Davis isn't coverage-challenged as some make out to be, when he has the play in front of him (as a S) he can be a big contributor, but he also has experience as CB which will make it easier for him to cover 4th WRs or TEs when needed.
I really doubt it will be this coming season, but that's a doubt I'd have for every safety in this draft class not named Jalen Ramsey

 

[21STEELERS21]

Didn't Chad Scott start from day 1?. I don't see the Steelers babying any of these guys. If you are the better player in
practice, you will get playing time.

 

[Litos]

Didn't Chad Scott start from day 1?. I don't see the Steelers babying any of these guys. If you are the better player in
practice, you will get playing time.

believe it or not Golden did a good job in coverage last season, though he lacks on the athleticism that Davis can offer the SS position won't be a given for the rook

 

[POP]

Now I can't reply to senseless posts?
Are you coach's defender? If so do it with arguments

I didn't find it senseless. It had merit. Not saying you have to agree with opinions, but it is my personal observation that Coach expresses his opinions and observations, in a non-combative manner and many of you feel the need to go to ad hominem attacks when he does nothing to justify such response. So, he doesn't agree with every move by the Steelers and expresses it. So what? No one ever claimed that in order to be a fan of a team you automatically have to agree with every decision they make. You can _CHOOSE_ to think in that manner, if you prefer, but no one has the right to tell you how and what to think. I find most of Coach's opinions to be spot on. And even if I didn't, I wouldn't attack the guy just based on not agreeing.

Am I his defender? Not at all. He doesn't need one; he does just fine on his own. We haven't even had a single PM. There used to be something called "common courtesy." I realize on the forum of Internet message boards, it may not be the norm. But when someone is just expressing their opinion, especially backed with some facts, there is no need to be rude. The guy never starts any personal attacks - just states his opinions, even if they don't all conclude that the team never makes mistakes.

 

[POP]

Didn't Chad Scott start from day 1?. I don't see the Steelers babying any of these guys. If you are the better player in
practice, you will get playing time.

Yes, the best players usually play. But, as we have discussed, ad nauseum, the Steelers generally take longer than most teams to get younger guys on the field. Many of us think they take that aspect too far. Many of us feel Dick LeBeau was the worst offender of making players wait forever until they take the field. It's just football, but I believe Dick got so caught up in being labelled a "genius" that he always tried to create the image that his D was so super complex, that no man could possibly grasp it in less than 2 years. I feel that thinking led to excessive benching of young guys.

 

[Litos]

I didn't find it senseless. It had merit. Not saying you have to agree with opinions, but it is my personal observation that Coach expresses his opinions and observations, in a non-combative manner and many of you feel the need to go to ad hominem attacks when he does nothing to justify such response. So, he doesn't agree with every move by the Steelers and expresses it. So what? No one ever claimed that in order to be a fan of a team you automatically have to agree with every decision they make. You can _CHOOSE_ to think in that manner, if you prefer, but no one has the right to tell you how and what to think. I find most of Coach's opinions to be spot on. And even if I didn't, I wouldn't attack the guy just based on not agreeing.

Am I his defender? Not at all. He doesn't need one; he does just fine on his own. We haven't even had a single PM. There used to be something called "common courtesy." I realize on the forum of Internet message boards, it may not be the norm. But when someone is just expressing their opinion, especially backed with some facts, there is no need to be rude. The guy never starts any personal attacks - just states his opinions, even if they don't all conclude that the team never makes mistakes.

i didn't attack him, I said that it doesn't make ANY sense to say that Davis was moved to CB because he was struggling at coverage, then he backpedaled to Burns because there were no facts in his affirmation and I called him on it. That's it, in fact he never answered me

 

[POP]

i didn't attack him, I said that it doesn't make ANY sense to say that Davis was moved to CB because he was struggling at coverage, then he backpedaled to Burns because there were no facts in his affirmation and I called him on it. That's it, in fact he never answered me

OK, for the sake of the debate, let's assume the above is 100% true. Are you also claiming to not attack him in other posts, when all he is doing is expressing his opinions, and not in a combative manner? You know very well what I am talking about. There is discussion, debate, and then there is taking the tone of being a dick. You know the difference.

 

[Litos]

OK, for the sake of the debate, let's assume the above is 100% true. Are you also claiming to not attack him in other posts, when all he is doing is expressing his opinions, and not in a combative manner? You know very well what I am talking about. There is discussion, debate, and then there is taking the tone of being a dick. You know the difference.

I get intense when someone pretends to be a know it all expert videotape scout and then says something as absurd as that. In other situations I can agree or disagree without getting in to any form of attack, as you can see even in a Reply to one of your posts:

Bottom line: If Davis gets lost in coverage, he won't make the field. If your safeties are so focuses on trying to knock players' heads off, but lose their deep coverage and allow big plays, they can't cut it in the NFL.

to which I answered:

Agree, but even Polamalu played limited time in his rookie year. Davis isn't coverage-challenged as some make out to be, when he has the play in front of him (as a S) he can be a big contributor, but he also has experience as CB which will make it easier for him to cover 4th WRs or TEs when needed.
I really doubt it will be this coming season, but that's a doubt I'd have for every safety in this draft class not named Jalen Ramsey

there's no flaming war, being a dick kind of discussion there, so come on, I'm not on a cruzade against Coach, you or any other member of SN. I'll reply when someone posts something out of his *** to put down the team though

 

[FordFairLane]

I would say by the Steelers own admission Burns and Davis are raw players that they feel have upside. Read what Colbert has said about them. But usually unless you draft top 10 you are going to have some pretty big learning curves.

 

[stillwright]

I get intense when someone pretends to be a know it all expert videotape scout and then says something as absurd as that. In other situations I can agree or disagree without getting in to any form of attack, as you can see even in a Reply to one of your posts:

to which I answered:

there's no flaming war, being a dick kind of discussion there, so come on, I'm not on a cruzade against Coach, you or any other member of SN. I'll reply when someone posts something out of his *** to put down the team though

But Coach reviewed 4 1/2 minutes of tape.

 

[Coach]

But Coach reviewed 4 1/2 minutes of tape.

I think you are taking it out of context. I reviewed 4 games of his when the ball came his way that was all put into a 4 1/2 minute video format.

As stated, the author intends to show part 2 and 3. If there is a better way to see a player on video, I don't know it. It sure beats watching the-the full game when your focus is only on one player, wouldn't you agree?

You are free to comment, agree or debate what I said. I welcome that.

 

[deljzc]

It's very hard to say "Burns' tape is bad" unless you watch all the other tape of many of the other cornerbacks in typical drafts.

If you look hard enough, you'll find warts on EVERY tape on EVERY college prospect. The process isn't about looking for warts. It's about identifying the warts and then ranking players according to the overall picture (warts and all) and how they fit in your system, your coaching and projected improvement.

I kind of look at Artie Burns and see some glass half-full moments too. He's certainly is the top-5 or 6 corners in this draft in my opinion (depends if you call Ramsey is corner).

Look, I wasn't happy with the pick because I thought there was a drop off between Hargreaves, Apple and Jackson vs. McKensie, Burns, Howard and S. Davis (depending if you call him a corner). And it's frustrating when a division rival gets what I think it a tier-better prospect in Jackson at pick #24 and we get a tier-lower prospect at the same position at pick #25. That never leaves a really good taste in your mouth as a resource manager/analyzer.

But even if you just cut your losses and push your resource issues aside we likely got TWO round-2 or top-60 talents for our secondary. Yes, if we think more like New England we probably could have gotten two round-2 and top-60 players and still traded back and picking up a top-100 pick as well. And that would have been better.

But the talent from Burns and Davis is real. It's tangible. Be it ready for week 1 or not, who knows. And nothing is a guarantee in this business. But damn, we needed secondary youth and talent and we got it. Probably not a superstar, but certainly better than any of us have seen in that group for 5 years.

Let them play and see what happens.

 

[POP]

I get intense when someone pretends to be a know it all expert videotape scout and then says something as absurd as that. In other situations I can agree or disagree without getting in to any form of attack, as you can see even in a Reply to one of your posts:

to which I answered:

there's no flaming war, being a dick kind of discussion there, so come on, I'm not on a cruzade against Coach, you or any other member of SN. I'll reply when someone posts something out of his *** to put down the team though

The 4.5 minutes of tape he watched of Burns is 4 minutes more than what I have watched. I have mostly read other's comments about what they believe about Burns - scouts, GM's, NFL "experts."

As far as you not taking a "dick tone" towards certain posters, I will let your future actions speak for themselves and take it from there. I believe a certain gang of posters attack those who don't only post "positive comments" only. But if you choose to go that route, don't whine when you get stung after you yourself poked the bee hive with a stick. It is not logical that one can make unsubstantiated assertions if it speaks rosy of the team, but anyone who comments on errors is somehow held to a higher standard. That there is straight up bull ****.

One other thing: I don't read his posts and think he is claiming to know it all. He makes some assertions and tries to back up said assertions. That is far from being a "know it all."

 

[CoolieMan]

Someone's caught a case of "I-can't-stop-being-a-dick-itise."

he likely caught it from you.....

 

[POP]

he likely caught it from you.....

This coming from the most combative guy in here.

 

[Litos]

But Coach reviewed 4 1/2 minutes of tape.

The saddest part is that his assertion is on Davis who he hasn't reviewed on tape yet

 

[chipped ham]

How does a DB in college get 300 plus tackles in his college career and lack football instincts.

Isn't that quite a few tackles that Davis had?

Ike Taylor had weaknesses too, but we liked his potential when we drafted him.

What I also find amusing, is how POP says that the number one thing he relies on as it pertains to college players is "past production." So, apparently, 300+ tackles and numerous turnovers in your college career isn't production.