You make it sound like he was a so-so player even back then. You can't compare era's. He was and always will be a sure HOF'er. Never a question. Never a doubt.
Dumb question to those that saw Lambert play,
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You make it sound like he was a so-so player even back then. You can't compare era's. He was and always will be a sure HOF'er. Never a question. Never a doubt.
Lambert was not slow, period. Same snowy Baltimore Colts game. Bert Jones thrown bomb to Joe Washington out of the backfield. Washington was a small fast running back. Lambert runs stride for stride with him for 40 plus yards and picks off the pass. That play blew my mind, with the speed and athleticism Lambert had. As others on board have stated, with today's modern training techniques, Lambert most certainly would have played and dominated in today's game.
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- John Elway's thoughts lining up for the first game of his NFL career, against the Steelers.
I don't know. If you can play, I would argue you can play in any era. Maybe a guy like Lambert would be MORE effective today, as opposed to less. I don't know if guys are as football smart as they were in the past. And Lambert was a great athlete, too. How you can say he wasn't I have no idea. He consistently intercepted the football. How would that be a liability in the passing game? Find that 1974 AFCC on youtube and the play I referenced earlier and tell me he wasn't a great athlete. So you put him in a modern weight program, with his athleticism and football smarts and his intensity, who knows?
Where Madden is a jackass is why does he feel the need to diminish one player to raise up another? I would agree that Jack Ham was the best I ever saw. But that does not mean Lambert wasn't great.
Aw, bullshit. Dave Casper. Russ Francis. Charlie Sanders. Jackie Smith. Mike Ditka. Mark Bavaro. Todd Christiansan. Kellen Winslow. There were great TEs in that era, too. Every bit as good as today.
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And what's to say given the access to what today's modern players have in terms of sports nutrition, training technology etc Lambert couldn't be just as effective? Low athleticism? That's a ridiculous statement if ever I heard one. No player gets in the hall of fame with low athleticism.
Amen brother...my favorite Steeler...played sandlot/flag football in the East End of the Burgh as a young buck, and always wore number 59 in his honor..
Dobre Shunka!
Wrap your head around this:
1972 2nd Team All-Conf. UPI
1972 2nd Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
1973 1st Team All-Conf. Associated Press
1973 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1973 1st Team All-Conf. Sporting News
1973 1st Team All-Conf. UPI
1973 2nd Team All-NFL Associated Press
1973 2nd Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
1973 2nd Team All-NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc.
1974 1st Team All-Conf. Associated Press
1974 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1974 1st Team All-Conf. Sporting News
1974 1st Team All-Conf. UPI
1974 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
1974 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
1974 1st Team All-NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc.
1974 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Weekly
1975 1st Team All-Conf. Associated Press
1975 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1975 1st Team All-Conf. Sporting News
1975 1st Team All-Conf. UPI
1975 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
1975 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
1975 1st Team All-NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc.
1975 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Weekly
1976 1st Team All-Conf. Associated Press
1976 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1976 1st Team All-Conf. Sporting News
1976 1st Team All-Conf. UPI
1976 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
1976 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
1976 1st Team All-NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc.
1976 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Weekly
1977 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1977 1st Team All-Conf. Sporting News
1977 1st Team All-Conf. UPI
1977 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
1977 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
1977 1st Team All-NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc.
1977 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Weekly
1978 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1978 1st Team All-Conf. Sporting News
1978 1st Team All-Conf. UPI
1978 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
1978 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
1978 1st Team All-NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc.
1978 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Weekly
1979 1st Team All-Conf. Pro Football Weekly
1979 1st Team All-Conf. Sporting News
1979 1st Team All-Conf. UPI
1979 1st Team All-NFL Associated Press
1979 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Writers
1979 1st Team All-NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc.
1979 1st Team All-NFL Pro Football Weekly
1980 2nd Team All-Conf. UPI
1980 2nd Team All-NFL Newspaper Ent. Assoc.
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Here is why....
The original question was asked by someone who didn't see him play. So I thought of a more modern day comparison for the original poster. I thought that Ray, in the ways I compared them was similar in those respects. Yes, I know Joe Greene was on that team, but outside of the Coke commercial, it was "Count Dracula" that I believe most people envisioned as the face of the Steelers D.
I considered Mike Singletary as well, but chose not to go there because not knowing the age of the poster, I didnt know if that would be going too far back, plus I felt Singletarys prime years was as much a result of a scheme that offenses didnt have an answer for.
As for the other stuff, it is only natural that when you compare things to contrast them as well. If some of my whimsy at the end fell short, I will apologize for a bad joke, but nothing more.
No doubt, Ham was one of the best at any LB position to ever play the game. He could do everything and he did. He was all over the field. I would take Lambert and Ham (from their era) right now, in a heart beat, to play next year.
You bring up an interesting point. For guys who remember well the first 2 Super Bowls and the build up to them, Joe was the man. I remember those games, but I was too young to really, I don't know, grasp it? For example, when Swann made that catch in 10, I went out side and threw the ball over the wire and would dive in the snow trying to copy that catch. Never really dawned on me the game would still go on.
By the next 2 Super Bowls, Lambert was more the man. Joe had gotten hurt in '75 (back) and was never quite the same, as well as the fact that he sacrificed in the stunt 4-3 and took on double teams much more. By that time I was far more aware, Didn't miss a second of those games during those years. So my perception, because of that, is Lambert was more of the man at that time.
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As it relates to Kirkland, I think you're selling that guy short.
He was a freak of nature, in his prime, being 260-270lbs and running stride for stride with the likes of Shannon Sharpe and Tony Gonzlalez down the field.
His inability to contain his weight was his downfall, as he was easily pushing 300+lbs his last several years in the league.
I disagree. Lambert was very skilled in coverage. When he played zone, he dropped to cover a receiver, rather than a spot of turf. He was constantly batting passes away, and interrupting routes, and picking off passes. He was also pretty damn fast for a guy 6'4", 220 lbs.
Every highlight you watch of Lambert. The guy never gets pushed back on impact. I think judging from that alone he had awesome technicality. His intensity and nasty attitude made him a feared man. Even by todays standards. As thin as he was, I think he'd put an *** whooping on ball carriers
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Lambert was a " complete " player. His size speed knowledge allowed him to drop deep into coverage turning our cover two into a cover three without subbing in extra backs and he was a monster against the run as well. And importantly he was feared and respected by friend and foe alike. One of my all time favorite steelers.
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The Steelers have said the linebackers speed and coverage ability made their defense what it was. Back then, players played. There was little substitution. Jack had football. Some guys just carry their pads well and have that burning desire and go all out on every play.
I watched his entire career. He was special. There will never be another Jack Lambert. Sure he benefited from his supporting cast but he also made them better too.
Too bad his Game Warden gig was so early, he'd have made a great subject for a Reality Series.
Too bad his Game Warden gig was so early, he'd have made a great subject for a Reality Series.
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He had no teeth, and he was slobbering all over himself. I'm thinking, 'You can have your money back, just get me out of here. Let me go be an accountant." I can't tell you how badly I wanted out of there.
From the interwebs, that appears to be the actual Elway quote.
Joe
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Funny this topic came up because I was just reading a great article yesterday where Roger Staubach said, " "You look over at that defense, [Jack] Lambert was the guy, no teeth, screaming and hollering, he was somebody you didn't like, but you wish he was on your team". http://pit.247sports.com/Bolt/Roger-Staubach-praises-70s-Steelers-makes-fun-of-Bengals-43025973
I loved Lambert. Madden is an ***, looking for arguments to get his ratings up.
I loved Lambert. Madden is an ***, looking for arguments to get his ratings up.
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I love this thread.
Obviously, we can never know if he "could" play today and it seems that much of the camp that doesn't believe he would be able to hold up in today's football game refer to his weight and having a great DL in front of him. I do remember this though, it seemed impossible for linemen to get into his body to move him where they wanted him to go and with his long arms was able to shed blocks long before a lineman could engage him and push him out of the play. Now, of course, there were times he did get blocked (like any linebacker that ever played), but he had an uncanny ability to dissect the play quickly and beat the lineman to the hole or simply get his hands on the lineman first and shed him. What would happen today I have no idea, but he was a great linebacker IMO and if he benefited from having Joe Greene in front of him and Mel Blount behind him, then Joe and Mel benefited from having Jack making tackles sideline to sideline and dropping into coverage.
Great linebacker IMO and deserves any and all recognition he gets for being one of the best. Mark Madden is irrelevant.
Papillon
Great linebacker IMO and deserves any and all recognition he gets for being one of the best. Mark Madden is irrelevant.
Papillon
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For a small linebacker he took no prisoners. The team defense was great but Jack held his own, did his job quite well and when he tackled he tackled, not with shoulder, but arms around take them to the ground.
The thing you can't measure is the desire, the motivation to play football. Lambert certainly had that, and that will make up for some other things, regardless of era. I would say Hines Ward was a modern example similar to a Lambert. If Hines Ward played in Lambert's era, I bet there would be people who would say he could never play today. And as we well know, play today he did.
Jack Lambert like the rest of the Steel Curtain, was great, unique and feared. For a current radio talk show guy to take a shot at him is silly.
Be that as it may, a few months ago I heard another funny crazy story about Jack Lambert told by Mike North of the Fox Sports Furhman and North morning sports show. He swears the story is true since a close friend of his who witnessed it at Kent State where Lambert played college ball.
It goes like this. Lambert, who I think played on the defense, claimed he was faster than any wide receiver on the Kent Sate offense and at the end of practice one afternoon challenged any of them to a 100 yd dash to prove he was the fastest. The WRs complained that they were tired from running routes but would race Lambert the next morning when they were fresh.
Naturally he accepted the challenge. That night he went out and bought a quart of Quaker State oil and a big jar a chocolate syrup. He carefully cut out the bottom of the oil can drained it, cleaned it and filled it with the jar of chocolate syrup and sealed it back up.
Next morning he showed up at the stadium wearing only a cutoff shirt, jock strap and cleats together with the can of Quaker State "oil" and a oil spout opener.
He again renewed his challenge and the fastest receiver said "let's do it" As they lined up at the goal line to race, Lambert asked for a "time out" picked up the can of "oil", punched in the spout and chugged it all down and said "let's race". He won!
Be that as it may, a few months ago I heard another funny crazy story about Jack Lambert told by Mike North of the Fox Sports Furhman and North morning sports show. He swears the story is true since a close friend of his who witnessed it at Kent State where Lambert played college ball.
It goes like this. Lambert, who I think played on the defense, claimed he was faster than any wide receiver on the Kent Sate offense and at the end of practice one afternoon challenged any of them to a 100 yd dash to prove he was the fastest. The WRs complained that they were tired from running routes but would race Lambert the next morning when they were fresh.
Naturally he accepted the challenge. That night he went out and bought a quart of Quaker State oil and a big jar a chocolate syrup. He carefully cut out the bottom of the oil can drained it, cleaned it and filled it with the jar of chocolate syrup and sealed it back up.
Next morning he showed up at the stadium wearing only a cutoff shirt, jock strap and cleats together with the can of Quaker State "oil" and a oil spout opener.
He again renewed his challenge and the fastest receiver said "let's do it" As they lined up at the goal line to race, Lambert asked for a "time out" picked up the can of "oil", punched in the spout and chugged it all down and said "let's race". He won!
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I highly recommend this read on Lambert:
A few quotes from a gem of an article.
http://www.mcmillenandwife.com/lambert_man_of_steel.html
A few quotes from a gem of an article.
http://www.mcmillenandwife.com/lambert_man_of_steel.html
Jack Lambert is one of the all-time best Steelers. He was intensity and intimidation personified on the field. He epitomized the 70's Steelers and solidified a Defense in 1974 and IMO was exactly what the Steelers needed as far as Defense in that draft. An injury in 1974 forced Lambert into the starting MLB position early in the season and they never looked back. The play of him tossing Cliff Harris in Super Bowl X to the ground after Guerilla missed a FG in the 2nd QTR was absolutely spot on. It changed the whole landscape of that game and it showed the Cowboys "Hey we're not gonna take your crap! Were the Pittsburgh Steelers! The legend of that play was that the umpire saw the whole thing and said right to Jack Lambert "Jack that's it your outta here!" And Lambert's response was "Your not throwing me out! This is the Super Bowl!" just goes to show you how intimidating this guy truly was. Another funny story is John Elway's first NFL game...vs the Steelers....first time he was sacked....guess who sacked him? Yup Lambert.....to hear Elway tell the story is classic because he was terrified at Lambert on the other side of the field spewing and snarling...Jack was an intimidator!
Was he the greatest Steelers LB'er? IMO now but he's certainly #2. Ham was superior from a technical standpoint and teams stayed away from Ham's side of the field so Lambert certainly had to play up to Ham's level. It's very close between the two...personally I loved Lambert but I think Ham was the better LB'er.
Was he the greatest Steelers LB'er? IMO now but he's certainly #2. Ham was superior from a technical standpoint and teams stayed away from Ham's side of the field so Lambert certainly had to play up to Ham's level. It's very close between the two...personally I loved Lambert but I think Ham was the better LB'er.