P
POP
Guest
NO ONE can successfully argue that Shade's stupidity on these kinds of decisions is OK. It is mind boggling that he gets a pass for being completely illogical in these instances.
NO ONE can successfully argue that Shade's stupidity on these kinds of decisions is OK. It is mind boggling that he gets a pass for being completely illogical in these instances.
P
POP
Guest
And as FANS we have the RIGHT to voice any opinion we wish. And just because we are fans, does not invalidate our opinions whatsoever. NFL coaches are NOT omnipotent. You would be shocked at how unwise some of them are.
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2014
- Messages
- 7,224
- Reaction score
- 9,853
- Points
- 113
We all get frustrated when this football team loses especially to lesser opponents, and we take it out on the head coach, assistant coaches and some of the players as do the other 31 teams fan bases but Tomlin doesn't deserve all the hate recently. Sure he makes some questionable decisions both with players and play calling but so do the other 31 head coaches. The fact remains he's been here nine seasons and has had no less than an 8-8 season and won something like 92 games. Not too bad!
Look, I'm not a big fan of Tomlin but I will be fair and give kudos when deserved. The man coached the team to 10-6 while losing Pouncey, Beachum and Bell and Ben for 4-1/2 games. The team made it the playoffs 6 out of his 9 seasons which isn't too bad. When I get frustrated with Tomlin I just ask myself who would I replace him with that's available? I'll bet Cardinal fans are critical of BA this morning.
Look, I'm not a big fan of Tomlin but I will be fair and give kudos when deserved. The man coached the team to 10-6 while losing Pouncey, Beachum and Bell and Ben for 4-1/2 games. The team made it the playoffs 6 out of his 9 seasons which isn't too bad. When I get frustrated with Tomlin I just ask myself who would I replace him with that's available? I'll bet Cardinal fans are critical of BA this morning.
It really didn't make sense going for 2 when Tomlin did (nor did declining the penalty that would have made it first and goal from the ~2.5 yard line). Decisions like that give you both the best (he has more balls than just about any coach out there) and the worst (going with his gut can lead to poor tactical decisions) of Tomlin. If you lose a playoff game because of decision(s) like that, it really smarts.
That said, I think there is some trickle-down effect created by Tomlin's willingness to take chances...gives the team a bit of swagger / confidence that can't be measured just by "doing the math". I also think there's some benefit to making decisions that seem a bit random...game theory says it's good if your opponent thinks you're capable of doing just about anything at any time even if it's a bit crazy / unconventional...maybe you drill a 53-yard field goal in the Super Bowl that would have been blocked if the opponent had tried to block the field goal, but the opponent plays to prevent a fake knowing that you just might try one...
I'm not sure going for 2 every time makes sense though. I would think you would suffer some diminishing returns as teams spend extra time really looking at the package of plays you've put on tape and you end of having to pick plays out of the B and C piles. That could have an effect on your red zone offense too.
That said, I think there is some trickle-down effect created by Tomlin's willingness to take chances...gives the team a bit of swagger / confidence that can't be measured just by "doing the math". I also think there's some benefit to making decisions that seem a bit random...game theory says it's good if your opponent thinks you're capable of doing just about anything at any time even if it's a bit crazy / unconventional...maybe you drill a 53-yard field goal in the Super Bowl that would have been blocked if the opponent had tried to block the field goal, but the opponent plays to prevent a fake knowing that you just might try one...
I'm not sure going for 2 every time makes sense though. I would think you would suffer some diminishing returns as teams spend extra time really looking at the package of plays you've put on tape and you end of having to pick plays out of the B and C piles. That could have an effect on your red zone offense too.
Those who harp / ***** at Tomlin ceaselessly are also the ones that predicted we would be 6-10 against the tough schedule that we faced this season. If you had told them that we would lose Ben for 5 games, Bell, Beachum, Pouncey etc., they would have said that we should be in line for the #1 draft pick.
It's really amusing because even on the Green Bay and Patriot's forums people ***** about the head coach, you can't please everyone no matter how successful you are.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 7,497
- Reaction score
- 5,032
- Points
- 113
Not true at all. I said they'd be 10-6 as well as a few others.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Messages
- 15,544
- Reaction score
- 3,801
- Points
- 113
Fair or not this is a very important playoff game for Tomlin. He has not won a playoff game in many years. He's 5-4 with Ben. Cowher was 5-1 with Ben! If Tomlin fails to win a playoff game this year, it will be 5 years in a row with no playoff wins, meaning the earliest he could break the bad streak is six years. Think about that. It's reached a boiling point for me...
While Tomlin's regular season record is good, some coaches with winning records are fired. See Chip Kelly. Years back Houston fired an 11-5 Bum Phillps.
It is my firm belief that Tomlin won his early playoff games with Cowher's best players from a performance and leadership standpoint. An average jockey if you will on a championship stallion he did not know well, train or develop.
If Tomlin fails to win a playoff game again, and his playoff record with a franchise hall of fame QB drops to .500 with the wins being a long time ago. Tomlin is 0-3 in his last three playoff games 0-4 would be bad.
If he wins a playoff game, he will have fewer critics for the moment ( me for one ) , but I'd say long overdue.
If Dalton plays as he did in the regular season, I think we lose. We really need good coaching, adjustments and the right decisions on 4th down to win.
Last edited:
That is a very well thought out coherent post. I wouldn't have a problem with him going for two every time. 70% X 2 is more than 95 %1. However, it is another chuck the dart at the wall thing with him that depends upon the opponent and sometimes weird game circumstance. They should have went for 2 on the initial TD yesterday if they were going to go at all. I'd have expected to get more than 2 TDS yesterday and then the 70% of 2 should at least balance out.
pevans1000
Registered
- Joined
- Nov 11, 2014
- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 3
I admit to being very confused by when Tomlin chooses to go for two, but this decision is not as cut and dry as some suggest. Up 12, you lose if you give up a TD (and EP) and 2 FGs. Up 13, you tie if you give up a TD (and EP) and 2 FGs. I assume Tomlin thought, given their success on 2 point conversions, that a 72% chance that a TD (and EP) and 2 FGs ties rather than beats you was better than a 28% chance that a TD (and 2 point conversion) and one FG ties you rather than the Browns going for it on 4th down rather than kick a FG in that last scenario.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 7,497
- Reaction score
- 5,032
- Points
- 113
Never pretend to do what? You ***** that people who've never been a HC discuss head coaching positions. But you've never been one and you feel fine talking up the coaches you like and talking down the coaches you don't.
BTW have you ever been an NFL QB? Nope... But you ***** about Ben all the time. If you listen to coaches and other QBs he's one of the best in the business. So you are being very hypocritical.
blitzburghv5
Registered
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2014
- Messages
- 2,576
- Reaction score
- 745
- Points
- 113
Some of you are critics......fans support the team, fume when we lose, 2nd guess everything..critics seek out any and every reason to complain win or lose. Nothing will you make you ******* happy but its entertaining still watching you attempt to discredit everything about the coach although hes been an overall success in the league.
Tomlin hinted he would go for two often before the season...he's been true his word.....and why argue with the success? What about 72% success do you have an issue with ? And what problem with extra points do you have ? Those extra points put pressure on the opponent to match....he's hedging his bets that they won't.......Cleveland never made it to paydirt...he probably calculated offensively they aren't much of a threat to score multiple TDs...had the opponent been GB, NE, Den, or AZ he may have opted for the XP....XPs aren't a given anymore. If you knew you could score 2 just as easily as you could 1, why would you (opt for 1) ? Apparently most can't stop our attempts
This would be a ******* boring message board if we couldn't discuss Head coaches because we've never been one, or QB's because we've never been one, hell I guess we can't even talk about the Steelers because we've never played for them. WTF?
P
POP
Guest
Maybe. That is every fan's right, just as it is yours to endlessly excuse his blunders. That is also your right.
P
POP
Guest
That's not the direction it was started.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2014
- Messages
- 13,796
- Reaction score
- 11,734
- Points
- 113
P
POP
Guest
No evidence suggests he puts that much thought into anything. He himself says he makes coaching decisions on "gut feelings." By the very nature of what that is, logic or reason is not used.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 10,978
- Reaction score
- 15,154
- Points
- 113
What might constitute valid criticisms of the head coach? That he makes bad calls/plays (like Ben and AB both did repeatedly)? That he has some really bad games (like Ben and AB both did?)
If Ben had a QB rating of 158.3 for 4 consecutive games and that got him into the discussion of league MVP, then he can be criticized (hurt/sick/healthy) for a poor performance in Ratland. Brown dropped a couple big balls again this season costing games, and was very pedantic without Ben as his QB.
They are both human and capable of being criticized. Same with the Rooneys (all of them), Coach Noll, Coach Chin and Coach Cliche.
The Steelers, all of them, have clearly shown imperfections many times this season.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 10,978
- Reaction score
- 15,154
- Points
- 113
Exactly. With stats like that, you go for it on every TD because you expect 1.4 points per conversion. So why did they kick the PAT on the first score? And the second one? There was some decision making tree that doesn't simply recognize the expected value.....so what is it? Is there a new chart? Or does it matter more in the 2nd half? Somebody ought to be able to figure it out, because the decisions don't seem to follow established logic, or yours above.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 3,796
- Reaction score
- 3,620
- Points
- 113
There is no consistent rationale behind Tomlin going for two, as he'll kick the extra point in similar or identical situations in which he went for two before.
He just seems to do it at random, and that is the problem many fans have, IMO.
Are you a season ticket holder? If not, how many tickets have you purchased this year to support the team? Last year?? Ever???
Never means shut your pie hole.
Excellent post.
I won't say all of them, but we know that many hope and pray that Coach Tomlin fails.
It's is amazing that we made it to the playoffs considering all of the setbacks we've endured add to that the SOS - I'm OK with the final results...
Overall, Shades is a very good head coach. But there is that once or twice a game when he does boneheaded ****, or lets his coordinators do boneheaded ****, that leaves even the casual fan asking "WTF?"
"It's 3rd and 15, yeah this would be a good time for a flea flicker. They'll never be expecting that."
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2014
- Messages
- 13,168
- Reaction score
- 17,909
- Points
- 113
Time is also a factor in when to go for 2. If this was in the first half then going for 2 is OK, but with less than 10 minutes left in a game where the browns mostly struggled to move the ball, it's pretty unlikely that they would have enough time for 3 scoring drives.
You can't just look at what happens if you are successful. If that was the case then you should go for 2 every time because 2 is always better than 1. You have to decide based on how much a failure hurts you at that point. As i pointed out, the failure if being up by only 11 opens the door for a browns to tie you with just 2 drives. With 10 minutes left there is plenty of time for a TD drive and then a second FG drive.
You don;t want a desperate team to only need a FG because it's not that hard to get a FG when you are going on 4th down each time. The defense still has to play prevent so they don't get beat. AN offense can get in FG range on only 2 or 3 completions.
Right before the half, the Browns got a FG drive in just 58 seconds because the Steelers screwed up clock management and left the browns that minute instead of running down the clock before they scored.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2014
- Messages
- 10,978
- Reaction score
- 15,154
- Points
- 113
"3rd and goal from the 3, so lets go FIVE WIDE *******! It didn't work a few years ago in Cleveland, so they sure won't be expecting it here!!"
Thank heaven the official and the cameras caught their DL player with his foot offside or it was a 100 yd pick six.