13th loss to sub .500 team in 4 seasons....

[antdrewjosh]

Yeah hindsight, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Can you honestly say Cowher didn't over turn the roster several times and keep the team as one of the best teams in the AFC?

OMG I must have really painted myself in the corner because even when I'm not arguing people take it that way lol. In hindsight yes he did. But in the midst of the 98-00 you can't say we weren't all shocked and pissed at the slide we took. Just like we are now. You can't say we weren't all shocked and pissed in 03. Especially since these weren't just the 8-8 seasons we had with Tomlin. So of course I'm not saying it didn't happen it did, over his 15 year career Cowher did keep us mostly in the discussion for AFC powerhouse. But he was also given the chance too recover from the clunker years.

 

[Cras108er]

This is exactly the difference. Cowher got a ton of heat for never getting the big one (until SBXL) and was criticized heavily for playing "Marty-Ball" or being "Field Goal Bill" and there were a lot who wanted him out. However, he had a strong following as well and the big difference is that Tomlin has had a franchise QB every year. When you watch teams with Brady and Manning win division titles and make deep playoff runs nearly every year, that becomes the expectation for your team as well. We also got to see Cowher's teams win at least one playoff game in 8 of 10 appearances and make it to 6 AFC Championship games. Tomlin's teams have been one-and-one in 3 of 5 appearances.

Maybe you've hit on something. Just maybe, Ben isn't the Franchise QB people make him out to be.... Or worse yet, maybe we're just a mediocre team that Tomlin has "overachieved with." If you look at the stats, Ben has notoriously had bad games against these bad teams.

His performance in SB 40 was less than stellar. He had a great game ending drive in SB IXIII, and he had some boneheaded plays against GB (including a failed game de idling drive at the end).

When is the last time he won a playoff game?

Everything you say about Tomlin, you can say about Ben - except that Ben also sucked in his post SB year under Cowher. I'm not saying Tomlin should get a pass, but why doesN't Ben get an equal share of the blame? He certainly gets more than his share of the credit when the team wins.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Maybe you've hit on something. Just maybe, Ben isn't the Franchise QB people make him out to be. If you look at the stats, he has notoriously had bad games against these bad teams.

His performance in SB 40 was less than stellar. He had a great game ending drive in SB IXIII, and he had some boneheaded plays against GB (including a failed game de idling drive at the end).

When is the last time he won a playoff game?

Everything you say about Tomlin, you can say about Ben - except that Ben also sucked in his post SB year under Cowher. I'm not saying Tomlin should get a pass, but why doesN't Ben get an equal share of the blame? He certainly gets more than his share of the credit when the team wins.

Ben gets a ton of blame, but it is very hard to find a top quarterback and you don't dump one when you get one.

 

[Coryea]

I'll take a 6-10 season surrounded by 13-3, 10-5-1, 15-1,11-5. And 4 playoffs
In 5 seasons. Right now we are close to no playoffs in 3 of 4 seasons.

 

[wig]

Tomlin said good defenses can get pressure with just 4, and we strive to be good.

That's ******* awesome! Did he really say that?

Endeavor to persevere!

 

[antdrewjosh]

I'll take a 6-10 season surrounded by 13-3, 10-5-1, 15-1,11-5. And 4 playoffs
In 5 seasons. Right now we are close to no playoffs in 3 of 4 seasons.

Once again you are saying that in hindsight.

 

[Coryea]

Once again you are saying that in hindsight.

People were wanting cowher gone after AFC title game losses, are you really surprised people are calling for Tomlin to go because he can't even get to the playoffs.

 

[antdrewjosh]

People were wanting cowher gone after AFC title game losses, are you really surprised people are calling for Tomlin to go because he can't even get to the playoffs.

And I guess you guys would of hated me then too because I would of been defending Cowher just as vehemently as I do Tomlin.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

And I guess you guys would of hated me then too because I would of been defending Cowher just as vehemently as I do Tomlin.

You probably would have defended Kevin Gilbride and Joe Walton too. I have no idea what you think a coach is responsible for. You seem to put everything on the players. The Steelers may as well hire somebody out of the stands to coach.

 

[mdk2]

You probably would have defended Kevin Gilbride and Joe Walton too. I have no idea what you think a coach is responsible for. You seem to put everything on the players. The Steelers may as well hire somebody out of the stands to coach.

Just read previous pages, he's given his reasoning a couple times.

 

[keslerclan]

Or just hire a PR guy to be HC...give him the "challenge flag" and the Pom Poms and let him stand on the side-lines and react to whatever the crowd reacts to.

 

[DBS1970]

And we lost to the expansion Houston Texans despite only giving up 47 yds to 400 and something your Point?

My point is that we are stagnant under Mr Tomlin and have even regressed to some extent. It can not be argued that last years Tampabay team was sub .500 all the way down to the wire. They are improving however under Coach Luvie Smith. with in two years they will be in the playoffs and I fear we will be stagnant still under Mr Tomlin.

 

[Acereros]

How many teams did we beat during that period who were over .500 when we were at or under ?

How many play-off wins do we have during that same period?

 

[obxsteeler]

You probably would have defended Kevin Gilbride and Joe Walton too. I have no idea what you think a coach is responsible for. You seem to put everything on the players. The Steelers may as well hire somebody out of the stands to coach.

We seem to rely a lot on "people out of the stands" to evaluate coaches but fortunately the Rooney's hire them. Let me ask you a question. Other than the last Raven game which team did we lose to this year where we had a marked superiority in talent. And how many did we beat where we didn't.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Just read previous pages, he's given his reasoning a couple times.

Nope it's easier to just pop ****

 

[antdrewjosh]

You probably would have defended Kevin Gilbride and Joe Walton too. I have no idea what you think a coach is responsible for. You seem to put everything on the players. The Steelers may as well hire somebody out of the stands to coach.

And where exactly did they prove they could coach?? I'm sorry I'm not like the rest who feel like a dog in a suit could of led us to the super bowl in 08 and 10 even though the coach we all love could only do it twice in 15 years but hey it's easy

 

[Coryea]

And where exactly did they prove they could coach?? I'm sorry I'm not like the rest who feel like a dog in a suit could of led us to the super bowl in 08 and 10 even though the coach we all love could only do it twice in 15 years but hey it's easy

The other coach didn't have a franchise QB and had to build his own team, something the current coach is struggling with.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

People were wanting cowher gone after AFC title game losses, are you really surprised people are calling for Tomlin to go because he can't even get to the playoffs.

Gospel.

 

[antdrewjosh]

The other coach didn't have a franchise QB and had to build his own team, something the current coach is struggling with.

And of course he had no say in that. While the other is responsible. Gotcha

 

[Drink IRON City]

I roconize that coach tomlin is our current coach. What he will do in the future is anybodies guess. His past defines him very well. We as STEELERS fans always hold current players accountable to a much higher degree than past players / coaches. Cohwer & Co. definately had a better knack for talent than this current regime. Cohwer's special team play was a HUGE hands up than anything our current coach has put on the field. Cohwer's offense may not have been as potient or potential as this current offense, but this current offense is irratic, even with a FQ. Now defense,.........can't even begin to argue that one, COHWER power. So two of the three phases definately Cohwer, Offense, even of different eras, aren't that much apart. Now add in gametime decisions / clock management / coaching up / emotional / play production / well you take a guess....................... Cohwer, definately a much better overall coach than tomlin. Tomlin could improve as he has much areas improveable. Lets hope the click clicks.




Salute the nation

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

And of course he had no say in that. While the other is responsible. Gotcha

Cowher won that power when he had Donahoe forced out after the 1999 season. Prior to that Cowher had lots of input but not final authority as evidenced by the infamous pick of Troy Edwards over Jevon Kearse, He got that power starting in 2000. Tomlin had it from day 1. And it is much harder to hit on a franchise QB than it is on any other position. Most QBs end up as busts, largely because you only play 1 QB and reps are hard to get.

Let's look at the steelers first rounder and the QBs available in the drafts starting in 2000. Since most franchise QBs are high draft picks, i will only list the guys who were drafted in the first 2 rounds.

2000 Plaxico - QBs Pennington - only QB drafted in first 2 rounds
2001 Casey Hampton - QBs Vick, Brees, Quincy Carter, Marques Tuiasosopo
2002 Kendall Simmons - QBs David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey,
2003 Polamalu - QBs Carson Palmer, Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman
2004 Roethlisberger

Pennington was mediocre so Plax was the right pick. Vick and Palmer were #1 overall so no shot to draft either of them. Looking at that list, Ben was the first chance at a real franchise QB aside from maybe Brees. Opinions were very mixed on Brees because of his size.

Great QBs are hard to find. Starting off with one already on the roster and in his physical prime is a huge advantage.


Now let's look at Cowher's losing seasons, particularly the back to back seasons that Tomlin apologists love to bring up as some sort of get out of losing to a ****** team free card.

1998 they go 7-9 with Ray Sherman as OC replacing Chan Gailey. Cowher actually started calling plays himself at some points in the year.
1999 Sherman fired and replaced with Gilbride and his complex system. They struggle to learn it.

Coaching turnover was the main factor in those losing years. That is something else Tomlin has not dealt with very often.

Cowher had as OC Erhardt, Gailey, Sherman, Gilbride, Mularkey, and Whisenhunt. Erhardt retired and Sherman sucked, but the rest got head coaching jobs.

Cowher DCs - Capers, Lebeau, Haslett, Tim Lewis, Lebeau. Again that's quite a bit of turnover for 15 years. Only Leiws did not get a head coaching job.

Cowher did a great job of hiring assistants. When he got a bad egg like Sherman, he got rid of him quickly. Tomlin has had the luxury of having a most stable staff.

 

[topseed]

Barry Switzer won a ring. Did you see ANY teams with ANY interest in hiring him after Jones dumped him? Why not? Because, even though we won a ring with that team, everyone knew they won in spite of Barry, not because of him. It appears it is the same with with Mikey. Good head coaches keep teams focused and performing their best, giving best effort. I don't see that coming from MT. Just listen to how he said about last game: "The players just were not prepared or focused for this game." As if, that realm is like the weather, as if no one is in charge of that area; they just show up and who knows if they will be focused or not.

But somehow it's not part of Tomlin's job to motivate his players to prepare or focus. That's stupid. Just ask diver or mdk2.

 

[Acereros]

Sad that he's losing all those games with Cowher's players...

NINE YEARS on and, according to you, he still hangs on the players who put him in the map.

 

[mdk2]

But somehow it's not part of Tomlin's job to motivate his players to prepare or focus. That's stupid. Just ask diver or mdk2.

Damn.. still on the motivational thing lol..

Have at it.

 

[stuntmanmike]

I don't get Ben. He should be having a hall of fame career it was all right there in front of him. Whether it's the off field bs to not being able to play consistantly it just isn't happening for him or the steelers. He's had on field heroics here and there, put up good numbers here and there but not playing good against subpar teams is all in the work ethic. It's those games you need to bring your hard hat and lunch bucket and get the job done. He's heading off to the golf coarse or nearest lounge. It's too bad... the picks he's put up this season are some of the ugliest I've seen. He singled handedly gave the bengals the first game. The one at the end of the Denver game seems to mirror this season where he played good or stinks. Ben should be in the elite conversations but he just isn't. But make no mistake he's being paid elite money.