To put one man above the team. To flat out refuse to answer a simple question, and to deflect/change the subject. Pretty easy to lay out your agenda.
To put one man above the team. To flat out refuse to answer a simple question, and to deflect/change the subject. Pretty easy to lay out your agenda.
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How many teams did we beat during that period who were over .500 when we were at or under ?
I don't know how many times I have said it but has to be about a million. I put way more emphasis on the players then I do the coaches. Especially coaches that to me have proved they can coach. I was the same way with Cowher the same with Tomlin. The same with pop Warner, high school. I'm arguing with Giants fans since I live in NJ about Tom Coughlin. Don't fire him I'm telling them he is a proven coach. You need the players. Why start over? Eli has just got the offense down why change it again. I'm consistent in my argument that you find a good coach and stay with him. There will be up and downs but you stay the course.
I didn't blame Cowher for Kordell errant throws, Neil's picks in the super Bowl. Betti's's fumble against the Colts. If that would of been Tomlin at the helm I guarantee someone would of said we'll they should passed or ran something else. Anything but Bettis the player ****** up. It's annoying. I've always said Tomlin is a good coach not a great coach. He makes mistakes he isn't perfect I don't agree with every decision he makes. But I definitely don't think he is responsible for every mistake made on the field . Players Play. I've always felt this way. Cowher wasn't responsible for Tim McKyer getting burned Tim McKyer was. I hope that is sufficient for you or anyone else. I said it before the Steelers can fire Tomlin tomorrow and he will go some where else and I will still be here saying the same about the next coach once he has proven he is a good coach. Players Play..
And to lose all those games while not having a losing record?
I'd assume his winning percentage against winning teams is near the tops in the league...
I'd assume his winning percentage against winning teams is near the tops in the league...
Define proved he can coach. The more I think about this my feeling is that not only did coolshades walk into a team loaded with talent, they had a great Coordinator in Lebeau. He made a good move and picked up Arians. They won. The tail end of that era ended with a SB appearance. Now the players are gone, the coaches are gone and what the **** has he done since. Lose to Tampa Bay at home and a practice squad last week. If he was fired tomorrow, he would be picked up immediately. But I would laugh if it was somewhere like Cleavland. Somewhere he had to build something himself. He would be 3-13 till he was gone from the league. He stinks.
Seriously? If winning a super bowl and then overcoming Ben's suspension to go to another is not proving he an coach is not enough for you then nothing I will say will matter to you.
He could of just of easily let his ego get in the way like Chip Kelly and let everyone go and get fired. It's not easy to come in and get the respect of a veteran team. It's not easy to win a super bowl. Or get to one. I said it already every good coach will have his ups and downs. Every last one. Except that prick in NE. But he is a cheating scumbag. Should the Ravens fire Harbaugh? He is a good coach that would be monumentally stupid IMO. There absolutely nothing I can say to convince you. You are already stuck in the mindset you could of coached the 2008 Steelers to the super bowl.
He could of just of easily let his ego get in the way like Chip Kelly and let everyone go and get fired. It's not easy to come in and get the respect of a veteran team. It's not easy to win a super bowl. Or get to one. I said it already every good coach will have his ups and downs. Every last one. Except that prick in NE. But he is a cheating scumbag. Should the Ravens fire Harbaugh? He is a good coach that would be monumentally stupid IMO. There absolutely nothing I can say to convince you. You are already stuck in the mindset you could of coached the 2008 Steelers to the super bowl.
And we lost to the expansion Houston Texans despite only giving up 47 yds to 400 and something your Point?
Haha.. wow almost forgot about that game. That was one of the worst things I ever watched.
It's the stupid **** he does that's get to everyone. I think Tomlin is a solid coach, but he is horrible at in game adjustments or just to stubborn to make them. He can't see when players are having off days and adjust to try to help them.
The first Baltimore game, going for it on 4th down lining up Villenueva as a slot WR, then running Vick to the short side of the field? Or expecting Vick to throw a timing pattern to Brown in OT. He goes for the win vs SD, then totally turtles on the road at Seattle, kicks a FG instead of going for the TD from the 2 or 3, then his reasoning is "I wanted to send the defense out on a positive note" really??? Go for the lead, if you don't get in, Seattle gets the ball at their own goal line and has to play it safe, especially when his go to phrase is "we don't live in our fears"
This past game, we ran a ton of 2DL, 4LB's, 5DB's, the majority of the game, even the final drive when we knew Baltimore was going to kill clock, and we still are in that 2DL, 4LB's, 5DB's formation, how in the hell do you expect to stop the run in that formation? We didn't we gave up 30+yards and 3 mins of clock before we finally stopped them. Are we really that afraid of Mallet? We came after Palmer, but when asked about just rushing 4 Tomlin said good defenses can get pressure with just 4, and we strive to be good. I'm guessing he was watching a different game than us and thought we were getting pressure, and didn't see a 12 day QB having all day to throw. That's the **** that gets to most fans.
The first Baltimore game, going for it on 4th down lining up Villenueva as a slot WR, then running Vick to the short side of the field? Or expecting Vick to throw a timing pattern to Brown in OT. He goes for the win vs SD, then totally turtles on the road at Seattle, kicks a FG instead of going for the TD from the 2 or 3, then his reasoning is "I wanted to send the defense out on a positive note" really??? Go for the lead, if you don't get in, Seattle gets the ball at their own goal line and has to play it safe, especially when his go to phrase is "we don't live in our fears"
This past game, we ran a ton of 2DL, 4LB's, 5DB's, the majority of the game, even the final drive when we knew Baltimore was going to kill clock, and we still are in that 2DL, 4LB's, 5DB's formation, how in the hell do you expect to stop the run in that formation? We didn't we gave up 30+yards and 3 mins of clock before we finally stopped them. Are we really that afraid of Mallet? We came after Palmer, but when asked about just rushing 4 Tomlin said good defenses can get pressure with just 4, and we strive to be good. I'm guessing he was watching a different game than us and thought we were getting pressure, and didn't see a 12 day QB having all day to throw. That's the **** that gets to most fans.
I think that was the first game for Maddox after returning from that bad injury vs Tennessee. I remember being worried that he was paralized, but he comes back 3 weeks later. I believe that was a factor in his performance:
Houston
14
0
0
10
-- 24
Pittsburgh
0
3
3
0
-- 6
First Quarter
Hou--K.Wright 40 fumble return (K.Brown kick), 9:06.
Hou--A.Glenn 70 interception return (K.Brown kick), 12:59.
Second Quarter
Pit--FG J.Reed 40, 14:40.
Third Quarter
Pit--FG J.Reed 31, 5:27.
Fourth Quarter
Hou--FG K.Brown 43, 11:25.
Hou--A.Glenn 65 interception return (K.Brown kick), 12:58.
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We out gained them something like 3-1. That was the most bizarre game I've ever seen.
I remember the Wright fumble, Maddox actually scrambled and he started to go down, and used the ball as a prop to hold himself up, and then just left the ball sitting there and Wright scooped it up and ran it in.
I'm honestly not trying to be an ***, but you still haven't answered what you hold a head coach accountable for. It seems like by your line of thinking, why even have one? What defines "has proven he can coach"? Simply winning a Super Bowl? I give him credit for that, job well done, but it was 7 years ago. There are a number of head coaches who have won Super Bowls who have been fired for less. Bottom line, we haven't won a playoff game in five years. Yes, every single player is accountable, but at some point, you HAVE to hold the head guy responsible. And I'm sorry, but you simply refuse to do so.
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There's a difference between isolated errors by usually reliable players, and continuing to play unreliable players making the same mistakes over and over again
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There are 14 teams with a playoff win since the Steelers last won a playoff game. Hopefully this trend will begin to change starting with a Steelers win and Jets loss on Sunday.
Sad that he's losing all those games with Cowher's players...
Exactly, we aren't the ******* Pirates where a non-losing season is good enough.
98-00 we didn't win one either and I've never once for called for Cowher head. Why??? He had proven he could coach to me. And he hadn't won anything yet. Nothing. But I thought he was a good coach. Why should I be any different now.
Of course he is accountable. But to me that accountability doesn't need to lead to his firing. Ups and downs. Whether the storm. He has proven to me he can lead a team to a championship. My point is If you were calling for Cowher to be fired back in 98-00 or any of the other times we didn't win the super bowl. Then ok. At least your being consistent. As I am now.
As far as Tomlin as a coach it's hard to me. There are different type of coaches. Motivators, X's and O's, great talent evaluators, leaders Etc. Etc. Tomlin doesn't call the plays on either side he delegates. He could of came in and ripped the defense changed things but he didn't to me that showed leadership and maturity. See Chip Kelly. He doesn't call the plays like Sean Payton so I don't know Or think he is some Genius football strategist. But there have been tidbits that he does help in the gameplans but he lets his assistants coach. From my understanding unless I'm wrong Cowher did too.
I do think he is a great motivator and leader bad losses and all. He doesn't let the team make excuses whether thru injury or suspensions. He has the respect of his locker room and has never lost his team. When Willie Parker started sprouting off about his rushing yds. He quickly quelled it in a way that left no room for controversy or dissent. The 2010 season could of been lost before the season with the Ben controversy and suspension. When AB has been a little selfish quelled. I would like to think his leadership helped us thru that. You may feel different.
Talent evaluation he has had his misses and also his home runs that's if we are going with the assumption that He picks all the players like most here or some like to say. Not going to get into another elongated argument about the draft here. Just say there have been hits and misses. And if someone wants to bring up the secondary then my counter would be the quarterback position under Cowher until Ben. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. **** we were one pick from taking Revis.
Again with out being there in the day to day workings I can only go on what I see what I know what he has already done. And like I said if at the same points Cowher had proven to me he could coach and hadn't won anything yet why should my standards be any different for Tomlin or anyone else who may of had the success he has had.
He does do **** I don't agree with all the time. I watch games every week and say yeah I wouldn't of done that. But doesn't make him stupid or dumb or whatever agree to disagree. It either works or it doesn't depending on the execution of his players. Sometimes the players make it work sometimes they don't. I have never ever heard any player on defense or offense come out and say I don't know what the **** we were doing or that we weren't prepared.
All I know is he has won more often then lost. And like Stillwright answered in another thread if Harbaugh out coached Tomlin Sunday because his team won. Then Tomlin has out coached more then he has been out coached period. Am I satisfied **** no this is Piitsburgh super bowl or bust every year. So hell yeah he has to be better get better . But I will always maintain find a coach once he has proven he can coach stick with him.
So we can right now agree to disagree or block me cause my stance isn't changing.
Of course he is accountable. But to me that accountability doesn't need to lead to his firing. Ups and downs. Whether the storm. He has proven to me he can lead a team to a championship. My point is If you were calling for Cowher to be fired back in 98-00 or any of the other times we didn't win the super bowl. Then ok. At least your being consistent. As I am now.
As far as Tomlin as a coach it's hard to me. There are different type of coaches. Motivators, X's and O's, great talent evaluators, leaders Etc. Etc. Tomlin doesn't call the plays on either side he delegates. He could of came in and ripped the defense changed things but he didn't to me that showed leadership and maturity. See Chip Kelly. He doesn't call the plays like Sean Payton so I don't know Or think he is some Genius football strategist. But there have been tidbits that he does help in the gameplans but he lets his assistants coach. From my understanding unless I'm wrong Cowher did too.
I do think he is a great motivator and leader bad losses and all. He doesn't let the team make excuses whether thru injury or suspensions. He has the respect of his locker room and has never lost his team. When Willie Parker started sprouting off about his rushing yds. He quickly quelled it in a way that left no room for controversy or dissent. The 2010 season could of been lost before the season with the Ben controversy and suspension. When AB has been a little selfish quelled. I would like to think his leadership helped us thru that. You may feel different.
Talent evaluation he has had his misses and also his home runs that's if we are going with the assumption that He picks all the players like most here or some like to say. Not going to get into another elongated argument about the draft here. Just say there have been hits and misses. And if someone wants to bring up the secondary then my counter would be the quarterback position under Cowher until Ben. Sometimes it just doesn't work out. **** we were one pick from taking Revis.
Again with out being there in the day to day workings I can only go on what I see what I know what he has already done. And like I said if at the same points Cowher had proven to me he could coach and hadn't won anything yet why should my standards be any different for Tomlin or anyone else who may of had the success he has had.
He does do **** I don't agree with all the time. I watch games every week and say yeah I wouldn't of done that. But doesn't make him stupid or dumb or whatever agree to disagree. It either works or it doesn't depending on the execution of his players. Sometimes the players make it work sometimes they don't. I have never ever heard any player on defense or offense come out and say I don't know what the **** we were doing or that we weren't prepared.
All I know is he has won more often then lost. And like Stillwright answered in another thread if Harbaugh out coached Tomlin Sunday because his team won. Then Tomlin has out coached more then he has been out coached period. Am I satisfied **** no this is Piitsburgh super bowl or bust every year. So hell yeah he has to be better get better . But I will always maintain find a coach once he has proven he can coach stick with him.
So we can right now agree to disagree or block me cause my stance isn't changing.
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I'm not necessarily calling for Tomlin's head either, but since Cowher gets brought up alot here, Cowher built the Steelers into a top AFC team four times while here, he took over an average at best team in 1992 and had them in the AFCC game by his 3rd season and in the Super Bowl by his 4th season and 16 of the starting 22 were guys he drafted or brought in, he almost turned the roster over in 4 seasons. Then 1997 best record in the AFC, and 12 different starters from the 1995 team, again turned over half the roster, then 2001 13-3 and we have 17 different starters from the 1997 team, then again 2005 Super Bowl winners 15 different starters from the 2001 team. Cowher was able to turn the team roster over basically every 3-4 years and stay as one of the top teams. I believe all those teams had different coordinators as well.
That's what I want to see from Tomlin, and I think most fans want to see, and it's not happening. Colbert didn't just forget how to be a GM suddenly when Tomlin took over.
That's what I want to see from Tomlin, and I think most fans want to see, and it's not happening. Colbert didn't just forget how to be a GM suddenly when Tomlin took over.
Yes he did but you have to remember your looking at those achievements in hindsight
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Barry Switzer won a ring. Did you see ANY teams with ANY interest in hiring him after Jones dumped him? Why not? Because, even though we won a ring with that team, everyone knew they won in spite of Barry, not because of him. It appears it is the same with with Mikey. Good head coaches keep teams focused and performing their best, giving best effort. I don't see that coming from MT. Just listen to how he said about last game: "The players just were not prepared or focused for this game." As if, that realm is like the weather, as if no one is in charge of that area; they just show up and who knows if they will be focused or not.
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I am going to give that play and another as having summed up the season. Passing up and easily made FG to "go for it" with the tightest formation (meaning Ravens knew exactly how to defend it) was equally depressing. Tomlin truly does "coach from the guy" and, even though he doesn't realize it, that is basically using logic and reason is not all that much of a priority. In other words, he kind of is proud for not thinking. You are in a game vs. a team where it is almost always decided by just a few points, and you just blow off a FG, where the 3 points ended up being the difference in the game. Not only was the decision of not taking the 3 pretty questionable, but the play chosen was probably equally as stupid. The one thing the Ravens still have is tons of size up front. Allowing them to just pile the meat, tight towards the ball, was just stupid as ****. Should have gone in a spread and let Ben sneak it. The manner MT took was full of arrogance and bluster - his trademark.
Yeah hindsight, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Can you honestly say Cowher didn't over turn the roster several times and keep the team as one of the best teams in the AFC?