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To all the Tomin haters

POP said:
I don't understand why you feel this is an appropriate response. You can disagree with Coach, but I see nothing in his post worthy of telling him F you. I happen to agree with much of his takes, but even if I didn't, I wouldn't feel it appropriate to tell him to F off.

<shrugs shoulders>

I also believe having Ben, in his prime, covers a lot of warts and foibles. I do not believe Tomlin is a good X's and O's coach, as a matter of fact, I don't think he really even tries to be. If we succeed it will be from player leadership, more than anything Mike does.
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You're related...
 
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...s-is-solely-on-moving-on-for-steelers-tomlin/
 
I don't get the vitriol directed at Tomlin at all. The Rooney's took a chance on a young coach with very little experience (sound familiar?). Like most of you, I've shaken my head and been disgusted, baffled, disappointed with a lot of things Tomlin has done over the years with play calling, clock management, personnel decisions, etc.But take a look around the rest of the league and tell me who you'd rather have leading this team at this time. He's a work in progress, like all of us and I like to think he's improving every year. And don't kid yourself, if he got fired today, teams would be falling all over themselves to dump whatever loser they currently have coaching for even the chance to get Tomlin.
 
You know what i hate? Not winning. Go win No.7. At that end of the day that is what EVERYONE wants. The team to succeed on the highest level.
 
Coach said:
Did you ever play or coach? Didn't think so. People often use humor to avoid debates...
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I absolutely hate that some fans who have coached in some form or fashion think their opinion reigns over someone who hasn't coached.

Fans /people can study the game and come up with spot on opinions just as much as someone who has coached could come up with a opinion far off base.
 
Steelr4evr said:
You know what i hate? Not winning. Go win No.7. At that end of the day that is what EVERYONE wants. The team to succeed on the highest level.
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That's the problem with being the head coach for this team. The standard is Super Bowl wins. Anything less is unacceptable, and its a perfectly good problem to have as a franchise. I second what you said though, go win #7.
 
slashsteel said:
I absolutely hate that some fans who have coached in some form or fashion think their opinion reigns over someone who hasn't coached.

Fans /people can study the game and come up with spot on opinions just as much as someone who has coached could come up with a opinion far off base.
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Spot on. I have met with NFL assistant coaches, and some of them are dumber than a bag of hammers.
 
Hines57 said:
That's the problem with being the head coach for this team. The standard is Super Bowl wins. Anything less is unacceptable, and its a perfectly good problem to have as a franchise. I second what you said though, go win #7.
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Coach Tomlin: "Obviously, the standard in Pittsburgh is Super Bowl wins. I was prepared for that when I took the job and nothing has changed in that regard. I mean the standard is the standard and it is as applicable to myself as it is to the players. As a group, ownership, the front office, myself and the coaches along with the players ... we recognize the standard and embrace it. That's part of the journey and the final chapter has yet to be written on this journey for myself or anyone else associated with this team. We will therefore endeavor to make sure all our preparation from an administrative, coaching and player perspective is above the line so to speak.

Mitchell has a shoulder"
 
Cope said:
"This is a place where success is measured in Lombardis"

-Mike Tomlin's best quote.
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To bad his Lombardi was with Cowher players........


/Tomlin Haters
 
stillwright said:
To bad his Lombardi was with Cowher players........


/Tomlin Haters
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I don't understand why that point gets dismissed as if it is irrelevant. There are plenty of coaches who have won big with talented teams they inherited and they later proved to be mediocre when they roster got old. George Seifert with the 49ers comes to mind. Seifert was a good coach but should he be held in the same regard as Bill Walsh who built the 49ers?

I personally don't think Tomlin got enough out of the team he inherited. He decimated the OL, allowed the defense to steadily decline, and worst of all, he stunted Ben's development by allowing him to play street ball for many of his prime years.

Just look at how much better a QB Ben has become under Haley. I don't think Haley is any genius. All he did was insist that Ben take his checkdowns instead of running around trying for the big play every time. Also, he installed checkdowns so Ben didn't have to hold the ball waiting for a 20 yard double move to come open on 3rd and 1.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
I don't understand why that point gets dismissed as if it is irrelevant. There are plenty of coaches who have won big with talented teams they inherited and they later proved to be mediocre when they roster got old. George Seifert with the 49ers comes to mind. Seifert was a good coach but should he be held in the same regard as Bill Walsh who built the 49ers?

I personally don't think Tomlin got enough out of the team he inherited. He decimated the OL, allowed the defense to steadily decline, and worst of all, he stunted Ben's development by allowing him to play street ball for many of his prime years.

Just look at how much better a QB Ben has become under Haley. I don't think Haley is any genius. All he did was insist that Ben take his checkdowns instead of running around trying for the big play every time. Also, he installed checkdowns so Ben didn't have to hold the ball waiting for a 20 yard double move to come open on 3rd and 1.
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79 Trai Essex
66 Alan Faneca
64 Jeff Hartings
68 Chris Kemoeatu
56 Chukky Okobi
73 Kendall Simmons
77 Marvel Smith
78 Max Starks


Those were the guys on the OL that Tomlin "inherited". Other than Faneca and Smith it was a piss-poor inheritance and one that "decimated" itself. Faneca left in FA because even then the Steelers couldn't afford to pay him market value. Smith's back injuries made it a no brainer not to re-sign him to a long term deal and he went to San Fran where he eventually retired during training camp. Simmons would falter due to diabetes. Kemoeatu was an idiot and nobody complained much about him being sent packing. Starks was not as good or valuable at the time Tomlin came on board as he would later show himself to be; and even then he was a serviceable option, not an All-Pro.

So, please tell me what freaking "all world" or even supremely talented line was there when Tomlin came on board that he "decimated"?

The damned defense steadily declined because the star players got old. That's what happens. You don't draft immortals who will never age, lose a step and/or have their skills decline.

Ben's development was stunted by his relationship with Arians and by the offense that Arians ran. And most of you Tomlin bashing Jan Bradys ("Tomlin, Tomlin, Tomlin") have said that Tomlin wasn't/isn't allowed to choose his coordinators to this day. So what would make you think he was allowed to when he first came on board? That would make Arians tenure the responsibility of whomever allowed him to become the OC ...
Personally, I believe that was Tomlin and that the move to get rid of Arians was too long in coming. However, Ben's unwillingness to use check downs during the Arians era was patently obvious. It was discussed and commiserated about on this very board. Ben's stubbornness played a big role in his "stunted development" So yes, Tomlin, Arians and Ben himself were responsible for that.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
I don't understand why that point gets dismissed as if it is irrelevant. There are plenty of coaches who have won big with talented teams they inherited and they later proved to be mediocre when they roster got old. George Seifert with the 49ers comes to mind. Seifert was a good coach but should he be held in the same regard as Bill Walsh who built the 49ers?

I personally don't think Tomlin got enough out of the team he inherited. He decimated the OL, allowed the defense to steadily decline, and worst of all, he stunted Ben's development by allowing him to play street ball for many of his prime years.

Just look at how much better a QB Ben has become under Haley. I don't think Haley is any genius. All he did was insist that Ben take his checkdowns instead of running around trying for the big play every time. Also, he installed checkdowns so Ben didn't have to hold the ball waiting for a 20 yard double move to come open on 3rd and 1.
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He got more out of them than Cowher did
 
Really? Cowher was 5-1 in the playoffs with Ben in 3 years and Tomlin is a mediocre 5-4 in the playoffs with Ben in 9 years, a good coach would have done much more with the team he inherited and let get sloppy and arrogant.
 
One coach coached in two Super bowls and one coached in one with the group of players being discussed. You tell me who was the one who coached in two?
 
I dont care how many SBs Tomlin wins it does not make him a good coach. Players seem to like him, but he seems more like one of the guys rather than a coach. How many times have we gone into a game where the other team had a glaring weakness and failed to even attempt to exploit it. When we lost to the ravens last year the coaches sure did not put the team in a good spot to win that game. We should have rode our best player, not some guy just signed to the team. This past Sunday was honestly the first time i remember seeing actual adjustments at halftime. The question is who called for them? Porter, Butler, Tomlin? Whoever did it did a good job. Our pass defense is near the bottom due to poor drafting, refusal to bench certain players, inexperience, and some scheme problems. Tomlin should have input on most of these and the refusal to sit blake is ridiculous. I am happy Tomlin is showing more emotion that was one of my knocks.
When things are smooth sailing tomlin is OK, but when problems arise it shows his weakness. Losing Ben for 4 games was big and Vick is god awful. However we did not really set up a game plan for vick to mask his problems. Jones can pretty much run the same offense as Ben, just not near as good. Pouncey is overrated and beachum was having a bad year. Bell is a loss especially if he and Williams were healthy together, but Williams is certainly no slouch. I think one injury we are forgetting is Golson he could help out in the secondary if he lives up to his draft status.
Currently I would put tomlin in the 12-15 range of coaches. Some are hard to judge because their team is absolute garbage.
 
jitter77 said:
I dont care how many SBs Tomlin wins it does not make him a good coach. Players seem to like him, but he seems more like one of the guys rather than a coach. How many times have we gone into a game where the other team had a glaring weakness and failed to even attempt to exploit it. When we lost to the ravens last year the coaches sure did not put the team in a good spot to win that game. We should have rode our best player, not some guy just signed to the team. This past Sunday was honestly the first time i remember seeing actual adjustments at halftime. The question is who called for them? Porter, Butler, Tomlin? Whoever did it did a good job. Our pass defense is near the bottom due to poor drafting, refusal to bench certain players, inexperience, and some scheme problems. Tomlin should have input on most of these and the refusal to sit blake is ridiculous. I am happy Tomlin is showing more emotion that was one of my knocks.
When things are smooth sailing tomlin is OK, but when problems arise it shows his weakness. Losing Ben for 4 games was big and Vick is god awful. However we did not really set up a game plan for vick to mask his problems. Jones can pretty much run the same offense as Ben, just not near as good. Pouncey is overrated and beachum was having a bad year. Bell is a loss especially if he and Williams were healthy together, but Williams is certainly no slouch. I think one injury we are forgetting is Golson he could help out in the secondary if he lives up to his draft status.
Currently I would put tomlin in the 12-15 range of coaches. Some are hard to judge because their team is absolute garbage.
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It's really too bad that you have such low regard for our coach. He's going to be here for awhile. As for what you wrote, if Tomlin is only OK when things are smooth sailing and weak when problems arise, how do you explain possibly making the playoffs after this season of nothing but problems; from Bell and Bryant's suspensions to injuries to a slew of key players. That's what I'd call problems arising and I didn't sense this weakness of which you speak. In the end though, it doesn't matter because he's going to be here for awhile. If the past is any indicator, I'd say at least until he's coached here for another 6-8 years.

Of course, I'd love to see his team (our Steelers) bring home #7. I know it wouldn't shut the Jan Brady Bunch up, but it would sure make it a lot more interesting around here.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
I don't understand why that point gets dismissed as if it is irrelevant. There are plenty of coaches who have won big with talented teams they inherited and they later proved to be mediocre when they roster got old. George Seifert with the 49ers comes to mind. Seifert was a good coach but should he be held in the same regard as Bill Walsh who built the 49ers?

I personally don't think Tomlin got enough out of the team he inherited. He decimated the OL, allowed the defense to steadily decline, and worst of all, he stunted Ben's development by allowing him to play street ball for many of his prime years.

Just look at how much better a QB Ben has become under Haley. I don't think Haley is any genius. All he did was insist that Ben take his checkdowns instead of running around trying for the big play every time. Also, he installed checkdowns so Ben didn't have to hold the ball waiting for a 20 yard double move to come open on 3rd and 1.
Click to expand...

I believe Tomlin was just a face figure when he first was hired. I really wonder how much control he really had. As time has roll by this has become his team. He came in and Dick was his DC(rightfully so) and Arians was promoted from within. Later on he wanted to keep Arians but the Bruce retired just to un-retire. While I agreed with Dick staying on I honestly thought it was only going to be for a few years. He was finally forced out. The Rooney's seemed to do their best Al Davis impersonation with the Tomlin hire. One reason why I don't care for it later on. But who is to say they just would not do it all over again on their next hire.
 
jitter77 said:
I dont care how many SBs Tomlin wins it does not make him a good coach. Players seem to like him, but he seems more like one of the guys rather than a coach. How many times have we gone into a game where the other team had a glaring weakness and failed to even attempt to exploit it. When we lost to the ravens last year the coaches sure did not put the team in a good spot to win that game. We should have rode our best player, not some guy just signed to the team. This past Sunday was honestly the first time i remember seeing actual adjustments at halftime. The question is who called for them? Porter, Butler, Tomlin? Whoever did it did a good job. Our pass defense is near the bottom due to poor drafting, refusal to bench certain players, inexperience, and some scheme problems. Tomlin should have input on most of these and the refusal to sit blake is ridiculous. I am happy Tomlin is showing more emotion that was one of my knocks.
When things are smooth sailing tomlin is OK, but when problems arise it shows his weakness. Losing Ben for 4 games was big and Vick is god awful. However we did not really set up a game plan for vick to mask his problems. Jones can pretty much run the same offense as Ben, just not near as good. Pouncey is overrated and beachum was having a bad year. Bell is a loss especially if he and Williams were healthy together, but Williams is certainly no slouch. I think one injury we are forgetting is Golson he could help out in the secondary if he lives up to his draft status.
Currently I would put tomlin in the 12-15 range of coaches. Some are hard to judge because their team is absolute garbage.
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To be fair I don't think it is possible to mask his problems...well maybe by not playing him. When he was first signed I didn't care for it but I figured he would be a nice back up to Landry....only to find out Tolbert signed him to start. While I didn't know what Landry would bring to the table I was pretty sure I knew what Vick would/wouldn't bring to it.
 
POP said:
I don't understand why you feel this is an appropriate response. You can disagree with Coach, but I see nothing in his post worthy of telling him F you. I happen to agree with much of his takes, but even if I didn't, I wouldn't feel it appropriate to tell him to F off.

<shrugs shoulders>

I also believe having Ben, in his prime, covers a lot of warts and foibles. I do not believe Tomlin is a good X's and O's coach, as a matter of fact, I don't think he really even tries to be. If we succeed it will be from player leadership, more than anything Mike does.
Click to expand...

You seem to be much brighter than the Steelers leadership council and front office. They haven't realized the truth yet. Perhaps you should offer them your input since they and the rest of the world are in the dark to this stark reality.

Seriously man....if this is the case, then why would the Rooneys give this man two contract extensions over these years ?
 
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