Covid Vaccine

[Confluence]

Yes, but the problem was the coronavirus was a novel virus and no one knew at the time whether natural immunity would be conferred or how deadly the virus would be. Do I think the release of information as it was acquired was too slow? Absolutely. I just disagree with you on the motives.

My whole family got covid in December 2020 before there were vaccines. We were scared shitless, we are in our 50s and had no idea what would happen to us. My husband and son lost their sense of taste and smell, no one knew at the time if that would be permanent. I think a lot of people forget the uncertainty and fear. The idea that someone would just say "hey let's see if herd immunity works" early on, not knowing if it would kill hundreds of millions of people is a bit absurd.

So you chose to believe untested shots where the manufacturers hid their original data, changed the original phase 1 clinical endpoints repeatedly (lookup your own link in this very thread), stole manufacturing IP (from Allele), and lied repeatedly about preventing transmission, early serious adverse events, and immunity from previous infection.

You chose to believe that these magical shots saved your family because it allowed you to allay your fears. Fine. Works for you.

That does not make your narrative spinning true or real for the rest of the population who had a different physical, mental and emotional experience. You continue to denigrate those who's views are different than yours, even though they bring science and results -- you find sycophants to express your dismissive thoughts -- rather than letting the reality of the many who suffered great injustice and harm be recognized and respected.

That is just sad. Perhaps one day you will open your mind.

 

[oneforthebus]

You are choosing to believe that which you find, rather than providing any response that answers the basic question of "were the Covid shots either safe or efficacious"?

There are mountains of evidence that this is not the case, but you choose to find the words of apologists --- likely funded by the same pharma and governments that approved these sham shots --- to demonstrate your beliefs.

And that is your right. You are entitled to stick your head in the sand and ignore the parts of the Covid scam that you don't want to believe.

That is just sad.

Right. Any scientist who doesn't agree with anti-vax posts is "funded by pharma and big government". Even the author of the study itself who says this study did not even look at deaths in vaxxed vs. unvaxxed. Nothing that disagrees with you folks is ever considered credible, even the authors of the very studies you cite. I think it might be you who has your head in the sand but I know I won't convince you otherwise.

 

[oneforthebus]

So you chose to believe untested shots where the manufacturers hid their original data, changed the original phase 1 clinical endpoints repeatedly (lookup your own link in this very thread), stole manufacturing IP (from Allele), and lied repeatedly about preventing transmission, early serious adverse events, and immunity from previous infection.

You chose to believe that these magical shots saved your family because it allowed you to allay your fears. Fine. Works for you.

That does not make your narrative spinning true or real for the rest of the population who had a different physical, mental and emotional experience. You continue to denigrate those who's views are different than yours, even though they bring science and results -- you find sycophants to express your dismissive thoughts -- rather than letting the reality of the many who suffered great injustice and harm be recognized and respected.

That is just sad. Perhaps one day you will open your mind.

I don't know what you're talking about. I've said numerous times that A) the shots are not very effective and B) My family and I got covid the first time before the vaccines existed. We got covid again after being fully vaccinated. Nowhere did I say the shots saved my family. I said that we were afraid early on (most rational people were) and the idea that anyone would have just let the virus run wild at that point to achieve herd immunity (which by the way isn't possible either because getting covid certainly didn't stop anyone from getting it again) would have been ludicrous at that point.

The Allele lawsuits had zero to do with safety or efficacy of the vaccines, they were patent infringement cases that were settled between the parties. Again, I've seen no credible evidence that data was hidden. The vaccines did initially show reduced transmission, which unfortunately waned quickly. You choose to believe they intentionally lied about it, I don't. I believe they went with the initial promising results because it was an emergent situation, and there wasn't a known alternative. Something was better than nothing.

The only thing I disagree with you folks on is the supposed widespread serious harm and deadliness of the vaccines, the data doesn't support that. I also don't believe it was all some conspiracy to lie to us. You do, that's not gonna change. You're not gonna convince me that the government and pharmaceutical companies conspired to deceive us and harm us with the vaccines. There's no credible evidence of that. Again, my biggest criticism was the very slow walk of information as they learned it, and the unscientific Faucisms like cloth masks and 6 feet apart which had no basis in science. And the mandates of an emergency authorized vaccines which created suspicion and resistance where there once was eagerness. But I chalk most of this up to desperation to try anything to keep millions of people from dying from a novel virus whose effects couldn't be predicted.

Do I think they went overboard? Hell yeah. Do I think some were stubbornly refusing to admit when knowledge and understanding had changed? Hell yeah.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I don't know what you're talking about. I've said numerous times that A) the shots are not very effective and B) My family and I got covid the first time before the vaccines existed. We got covid again after being fully vaccinated. Nowhere did I say the shots saved my family. I said that we were afraid early on (most rational people were) and the idea that anyone would have just let the virus run wild at that point to achieve herd immunity (which by the way isn't possible either because getting covid certainly didn't stop anyone from getting it again) would have been ludicrous at that point.

The Allele lawsuits had zero to do with safety or efficacy of the vaccines, they were patent infringement cases that were settled between the parties. Again, I've seen no credible evidence that data was hidden. The vaccines did initially show reduced transmission, which unfortunately waned quickly. You choose to believe they intentionally lied about it, I don't. I believe they went with the initial promising results because it was an emergent situation, and there wasn't a known alternative. Something was better than nothing.

The only thing I disagree with you folks on is the supposed widespread serious harm and deadliness of the vaccines, the data doesn't support that. I also don't believe it was all some conspiracy to lie to us. You do, that's not gonna change. You're not gonna convince me that the government and pharmaceutical companies conspired to deceive us and harm us with the vaccines. There's no credible evidence of that. Again, my biggest criticism was the very slow walk of information as they learned it, and the unscientific Faucisms like cloth masks and 6 feet apart which had no basis in science. And the mandates of an emergency authorized vaccines which created suspicion and resistance where there once was eagerness. But I chalk most of this up to desperation to try anything to keep millions of people from dying from a novel virus whose effects couldn't be predicted.

Do I think they went overboard? Hell yeah. Do I think some were stubbornly refusing to admit when knowledge and understanding had changed? Hell yeah.

The skepticism is a direct result of the arrogance of those presenting information to us, the CDC, Fauci, the parroting media.
Granted, at first no one was really certain what we were dealing with, safety precaution seemingly being pulled out of thin air as over precaution.

Problem being once more was known, these same people kept up the nonsense, the masks, one way grocery aisles, 6 feet separation, Walmart good the corner bakery bad, getting arrested for going swimming on a deserted beach, and make sure everyone gets their booster. The heavy-handed authority became too much.

And you are correct; they still won't admit that they handled it badly, making it harder to believe anything they now say. Their unrepentant attitude that they know better and should never be questioned. They respond with deflection or gaslighting, all to maintain their perceived flawless self-image.

Authority should always be questioned, even when these blowhards tell us not to.

 

[fedderone]

The skepticism is a direct result of the arrogance of those presenting information to us, the CDC, Fauci, the parroting media.
Granted, at first no one was really certain what we were dealing with, safety precaution seemingly being pulled out of thin air as over precaution.

Problem being once more was known, these same people kept up the nonsense, the masks, one way grocery aisles, 6 feet separation, Walmart good the corner bakery bad, getting arrested for going swimming on a deserted beach, and make sure everyone gets their booster. The heavy-handed authority became too much.

And you are correct; they still won't admit that they handled it badly, making it harder to believe anything they now say. Their unrepentant attitude that they know better and should never be questioned. They respond with deflection or gaslighting, all to maintain their perceived flawless self-image.

Authority should always be questioned, even when these blowhards tell us not to.

100%, Zona!
This is an awesome case study of the old adage that "it's far easier to fool someone than it is to convince someone that they've been fooled."
People seriously have this pride of not wanting to admit they were duped.
Just FN dumb.

 

[Confluence]

Right. Any scientist who doesn't agree with anti-vax posts is "funded by pharma and big government".

Ok, which of the ones you cited was I mistaken about?

Even the author of the study itself who says this study did not even look at deaths in vaxxed vs. unvaxxed.

I didnt cite any study; you did. Which specifically are you referring to?

Nothing that disagrees with you folks is ever considered credible, even the authors of the very studies you cite. I think it might be you who has your head in the sand but I know I won't convince you otherwise.

Uh, what do you mean by "you folks"?
Those that don't want to be spoonfed by the regulatory capture artists running public health and pharma?
Lol, do tell why you are able to divide "you folks"-presumably me included from your group, whatever that is.

Is your group those apologists I referred to above that got almost all of the plandemic, from origins to treatment, horribly wrong in such a belligerent way as invoke such a wide swath of the public, both old and young, to disbelieve government and corporate propaganda for the foreseeable future?

Great job!