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so you no longer believe that there is a scientific reason for the balls being deflated ????
Deflategate Investigation: Complete ... Awaiting Report.
- Thread starter SteelBuckeye
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so you no longer believe that there is a scientific reason for the balls being deflated ????
IMO, if, the *'s and Brady would have FULLY cooperated during the investigation - "it is more probable than not/allegedly" changes to "definitely"...so, in essence, the phrase had to be used to keep the egg of their faces and still remain subjectively correct in their ruling.
I'm open minded on this one --- I'm just wondering where it really ranks in terms of no-nos. In the '70, receivers used Stickum, D-linemen covered themselves with Vasoline and the Steelers were accused (by the Raiders) of purposefully making sure the turf at Three Rivers was partially frozen in order to slow down the Raiders receivers. Brady has to be punished for this --- I would be much more lenient if he didn't lie the world --- but how bad is it really if we separate the act from the fact that we all despise Brady, Belichick, Kraft and the rest of the Pats?
not a goddamn thing will be done of consequence to the Patriots.
nothing.
Kraft's ties to CBS and the DirecTV Sunday Ticket cash cow will prevent that.
remember, after SpyGate - Pats were docked a first rounder, "fined" a sum and Belichick was fined as well.
that "first rounder" was their own, which was a low-first round pick. they still had one via trade from the previous season.
then Kraft gave Belichick a raise with signing bonus that was equal to or more than that fine (I dont feel like looking it up).
this organization and its' fans don't give a flying **** what the NFL "imposes" on them.
"every team cheats"
nothing.
Kraft's ties to CBS and the DirecTV Sunday Ticket cash cow will prevent that.
remember, after SpyGate - Pats were docked a first rounder, "fined" a sum and Belichick was fined as well.
that "first rounder" was their own, which was a low-first round pick. they still had one via trade from the previous season.
then Kraft gave Belichick a raise with signing bonus that was equal to or more than that fine (I dont feel like looking it up).
this organization and its' fans don't give a flying **** what the NFL "imposes" on them.
"every team cheats"
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I'd like to share in many of you guys optimism.
There has never been any doubt in my mind that the entire Pat* organization is tainted. It has been obvious they would rather spend the time pushing the boundaries of the rules than to play the game with integrity. There is no doubt the organization should be punished. If there is one thing history has taught us they won't be. The Pat* play by their rules while the rest of the league is held to a different set of standards. I hope I'm completely wrong but the wording of the report "more probable" and "generally aware" leaves room for interpretation. The generalization of those two statements and the wiggle room they provide worries me. If no punishment beyond the locker room attendants are handed down this will be the end of my interest in the NFL.
There has never been any doubt in my mind that the entire Pat* organization is tainted. It has been obvious they would rather spend the time pushing the boundaries of the rules than to play the game with integrity. There is no doubt the organization should be punished. If there is one thing history has taught us they won't be. The Pat* play by their rules while the rest of the league is held to a different set of standards. I hope I'm completely wrong but the wording of the report "more probable" and "generally aware" leaves room for interpretation. The generalization of those two statements and the wiggle room they provide worries me. If no punishment beyond the locker room attendants are handed down this will be the end of my interest in the NFL.
The simple fact is Brady has felt for some time that he had a special set of rules... just watch him cry for flags over incidental contact on him or his recievers and often get late calls from it. the entitlement carried over into his real life as well... him suing the guy for dumpster diving his stuff for example... The fact is he is 38 this season and about done. the Pats have had some bickering between he and they lately. I wouldnt be surprised at all if they use this to move away from him like the colts did with Manning. Brady would fetch a decent return and really the Pats could win with a lesser QB and their system.
They do not have an Andrew Luck in the waiting like the Colts did...
It's really simple, and has been since Belichik arrived in New England. How does a team of mostly average players win 4 Super Bowls? A 6th round pick starting at QB after backing up in college. Another backup QB comes in for a season and leads the team to an 11-5 record, moves to other teams and never comes close to repeating that success. You want to believe it can't happen, but....
The article on FoxSport.com is hilarious!!!
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...ts-deflategate-wells-report-suspension-050615
http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...ts-deflategate-wells-report-suspension-050615
It's "lawyer speak". When writing the brief/report, Wells and his associates had to keep in mind what the standard of evidence was for a finding of guilt. The rule book states that the standard is a "preponderance of the evidence". Which is interpreted as "is it 'more probable than not' that the person referred to committed, encouraged, had knowledge, etc. of the act(s) that form the basis of the investigation.
In essence, Wells and his associates are saying "Using the standard of proof that is applicable (preponderance of the evidence) we find that the two employees of the Pats** committed the act and Brady pretty much knew about/encouraged it (more probable than not).
Deljzc I have to disagree with you completely on this. If you are going to Ban 2 of the parties to this cheating you need to ban the third. It was clearly evident that the deflating was done at the request of Tom Brady and not the other way around. He is the instigator and the one to benefit the most by this activity. The penalties should if anything be more severe for Brady than any of the others for the same reason the mafia boss is subject to more severe penalties than his Lackeys.
An allegation happens prior to any investigation or finding of facts. It is nothing more than one person being accused of something. At that phase no evidence has been presented to determine actual events to a court or deciding body. A preponderance of evidence occurs after evidence has been examined and reviewed and indicates the events listed in the accusation are very likely to have happened. This is a lesser standard than beyond all reasonable doubt used in criminal cases but not a large amount less, it is much more than probable cause for example. I hope that helps.
The reason for the difference in the two is criminal conduct comes with the possibility of incarceration and could in some instances involve capital punishment. Civil cases on the other hand involve monetary penalties and do not come with the threat of incarceration or capital punishment thus the lower standards.
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My punishment:
Tom Brady suspended 4 games. No reduction. 4 games at the start of the season.
Jim McNally lifetime NFL ban.
John Jastremski lifetime NFL ban.
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T*m Br*dy!
ha ha
Woody Paige: "Tom Brady should be suspended for the entire season."
Del and Fill up Rivers are right in their understanding of the Noble Gas Laws.
However, when the balls were checked at halftime, the Colt's balls dropped according to the laws, the Patriots balls were over the standard deviation to account to environmental factors in the decrease of their ball's pressure. Therefore, they were tampered with. There was time tests that showed you can deflate 15 balls appropriately in 90sec to the levels that the balls were. The report is clear, and did show that tampering did occur, and punishment will be doled out. The only saving grace for the Pats is Kraft's relationship with Goodell. I believe the punishment, if any, for the ownership/ coaching/ admin will be minimal if any, since the report cleared them all of wrongdoing. It would have to be a leap to punish the entire organization. Allowing it to happen may be a stretch to punish Bellycheat, however the competitive advantage could come in to play, and a draft pick could be docked.
However, when the balls were checked at halftime, the Colt's balls dropped according to the laws, the Patriots balls were over the standard deviation to account to environmental factors in the decrease of their ball's pressure. Therefore, they were tampered with. There was time tests that showed you can deflate 15 balls appropriately in 90sec to the levels that the balls were. The report is clear, and did show that tampering did occur, and punishment will be doled out. The only saving grace for the Pats is Kraft's relationship with Goodell. I believe the punishment, if any, for the ownership/ coaching/ admin will be minimal if any, since the report cleared them all of wrongdoing. It would have to be a leap to punish the entire organization. Allowing it to happen may be a stretch to punish Bellycheat, however the competitive advantage could come in to play, and a draft pick could be docked.
Al if my memory holds true, the field at three rivers was frozen because one or more of the tarps failed to adequately protect the field due to high winds and the storm. The Steelers did what a reasonable person would do to protect the field but were unsuccessful. The weather was an act of God, The deflated balls were an act of three people in collusion to cheat and none of them can be confused with God not even Brady.
Stickum was an allowable substance in the 70s if I remember correctly so no cheating occurred, and the Vaseline on the jerseys was not banned but was used to help prevent holding by offensive linemen which was illegal. I do not believe any of these events are in any way close to what has transpired with the patriots a team and organization that has systematically employed cheating for many years.
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Wouldn't it be nice if Florio is right for once
Suspension of Tom Brady seems unavoidable
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/suspension-of-tom-brady-seems-unavoidable/
Suspension of Tom Brady seems unavoidable
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/07/suspension-of-tom-brady-seems-unavoidable/
With the inconsistency in punishment that has been handed out by the league I would not be surprised if a pardon was issued for any wrong doing and the two lackeys take all the blame. Banning them from all future work with the league is way to harsh for their role in the events. They should receive no more time away from the game than Brady does and no fine at all since they were doing what they were told. Their future employment with the organization could have depended on it and they are not likely well enough financially to be able to refuse.
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The most damning evidence is the not the PSI of the balls, its the string of text messages.
You ban McNally and Jerkowski because of the tone of their conversation. They are completely unprofessional and blatantly and clearly disregard the rules of the game. Brady's involvement, while strongly implied, is not quite as definite, nor is his tone/directive.
In fact, you could argue Brady wants his balls EXACTLY 12.5 psi (legal but on the low end) and these guys have struggled to make him happy. It is unclear whether Brady knew about "the needle" while it is clear McNally and Jerkowski knew about the "needle".
The whole thing about these employees is shady. Why should doing their job require kickbacks from the players? Why should they be getting sneakers and jerseys?
Is Brady paying for illegal activity or is it more "when the balls feel good, he gives them a bonus"? It's just extremely unclear when I read the report.
The hammer should really come down on the team. These are THEIR employees that are discussing by text cheating the game and getting paid under the table in merchandise (I doubt either of these guys filed these perks on their taxes). And because this is a 2nd offense for stretching the rules, it needs to be substantial. And to me it needs to be MORE than last time.
You ban McNally and Jerkowski because of the tone of their conversation. They are completely unprofessional and blatantly and clearly disregard the rules of the game. Brady's involvement, while strongly implied, is not quite as definite, nor is his tone/directive.
In fact, you could argue Brady wants his balls EXACTLY 12.5 psi (legal but on the low end) and these guys have struggled to make him happy. It is unclear whether Brady knew about "the needle" while it is clear McNally and Jerkowski knew about the "needle".
The whole thing about these employees is shady. Why should doing their job require kickbacks from the players? Why should they be getting sneakers and jerseys?
Is Brady paying for illegal activity or is it more "when the balls feel good, he gives them a bonus"? It's just extremely unclear when I read the report.
The hammer should really come down on the team. These are THEIR employees that are discussing by text cheating the game and getting paid under the table in merchandise (I doubt either of these guys filed these perks on their taxes). And because this is a 2nd offense for stretching the rules, it needs to be substantial. And to me it needs to be MORE than last time.
If it is not illegal why pay for it. I believe you are reaching. There has been a failure to comply with the investigation, it is outlined in great detail in the articles. Equal justice should be invoked. It is not fair to make the equipment guy and the ball boy patsies for a millionaire. Just as in a contract murder the party paying is charged the same as the one hired to do the deed. Granted that air pressure and killing are no where near the same in severity the same principals regarding collusion and conspiracy to commit should apply.
If Brady wanted the footballs at 12.5 the low end of the permissible scale they would not have had to take them anywhere to do that let alone going into a bathroom and deflating them. I have heard more legitimate explanations from politicians than that.
Please excuse my big type above I am not yelling at you but really disbelieve the possibility of that scenario you have postulated. I really do not see any mitigating circumstances for this behavior at all simply because there is none what so ever to be found spin be damned.
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LOL I guess I was just trying to indicate that Ben's " allegations " had him crucified -- suspended for 6 games so in my opinion "Probably " should ALSO lead to suspension !!
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Does anyone have those numbers that show how the *'s are a statistical outlier in terms of fumbles? I know I've seen them posted on here.. would definitely appreciate that
