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Who had 3 INTs last year.
Steelers select CB Senquez Golson
- Thread starter Steelerfan81
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Who had 3 INTs last year.
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You know another cornerback we drafted recently with a lot of interceptions?
Joe Burnett.
Undersized but was supposedly a "ball hawk". Had 16 career interception in college.
Alphonso Smith was undersized. Had 21 career interceptions. Everyone talked about his "perfect" form and if he was 2" taller he'd be the best cornerback in that class. I had a 1st round grade on him. Mayock liked him. Fell to the 2nd round and has been a journeyman the last couple of seasons.
Other recent players with 15 career interceptions in college (cornerbacks since 2004)
Lorenzo Doss (drafted in round 5)
Casey Hayward (drafted by GB in 2nd round is a nickel back)
Victor Harris (never panned out in the NFL)
Antione Cason (6'0" and has done a decent job in the NFL)
Reggie Corner (undersized 5'10" 175#, part time player for Buffalo)
Nickoe Whitney (never played in NFL)
Kevin Sanders (never played in NFL)
I guess my point is the interception total is kind of irrelevant. There are great cornerbacks that get very few interceptions in college and some average cornerbacks that get a lot of interceptions in college. "Ball skills" is a very inexact science that I'm not sure the college game proves or disproves.
Leodis McKelvin had 4 career INT in college. He has 11 in the NFL.
Richard Sherman only had 6 career INT
Dre Kirkpatrick had 3 INT
All I'm saying is that in evaluation college cornerback talent, "career interceptions" is not very high on the list.
Maybe Golson's good college tape and production transition to the NFL, where everyone on offense gets a little bit bigger. We will see. Based on history, I'm not overly optimistic. Put me in the group like TMC was on Mike Adams. TMC was very down on Adams feet, said he just couldn't play LT at all and he has proven prophetic. I worry about Golson's size and length and don't think any amount of ball skills is really going to fix that.
To me, it's the worst pick in this year's draft. It was a "predetermined" pick that appears to have a lot of tunnel vision on the part of the Steelers front office. I don't like those types of picks.
To me it is also very typical of how we draft since Tomlin has become the head coach. See a problem, then tunnel vision "fixes" for that problem onto the next season's draft class. It bounces from "off-field" issues to special teams to punting to return game to turnovers to sacks/pressure to red zone to deep threats.
Tombert's management of the roster seems very short sighted. Team's not getting enough sacks? Draft "sack guys" high. Team's not getting enough in the return game? Push up ranking players based on speed and return ability. Team doesn't generate turnovers? We better draft a kid that generates turnovers.
To me, this type of randomly prioritizing traits in prospects is so *** backwards to how you should be evaluating talent it's just crazy. You should judge talent the SAME EVERY YEAR that is completely regardless of what weaknesses you have created on your roster through years of neglect in the first place. I'm not saying QB pressure, turnovers, return ability, red zone ability or team speed aren't important. They are, but they are equally important every year, every draft class, every prospect.
That's not how it appears to work in Pittsburgh anymore. I have no idea what we will be looking for in prospects next year, but I guarantee it will have something to do with something we're bad at this year on the field.
Joe Burnett.
Undersized but was supposedly a "ball hawk". Had 16 career interception in college.
Alphonso Smith was undersized. Had 21 career interceptions. Everyone talked about his "perfect" form and if he was 2" taller he'd be the best cornerback in that class. I had a 1st round grade on him. Mayock liked him. Fell to the 2nd round and has been a journeyman the last couple of seasons.
Other recent players with 15 career interceptions in college (cornerbacks since 2004)
Lorenzo Doss (drafted in round 5)
Casey Hayward (drafted by GB in 2nd round is a nickel back)
Victor Harris (never panned out in the NFL)
Antione Cason (6'0" and has done a decent job in the NFL)
Reggie Corner (undersized 5'10" 175#, part time player for Buffalo)
Nickoe Whitney (never played in NFL)
Kevin Sanders (never played in NFL)
I guess my point is the interception total is kind of irrelevant. There are great cornerbacks that get very few interceptions in college and some average cornerbacks that get a lot of interceptions in college. "Ball skills" is a very inexact science that I'm not sure the college game proves or disproves.
Leodis McKelvin had 4 career INT in college. He has 11 in the NFL.
Richard Sherman only had 6 career INT
Dre Kirkpatrick had 3 INT
All I'm saying is that in evaluation college cornerback talent, "career interceptions" is not very high on the list.
Maybe Golson's good college tape and production transition to the NFL, where everyone on offense gets a little bit bigger. We will see. Based on history, I'm not overly optimistic. Put me in the group like TMC was on Mike Adams. TMC was very down on Adams feet, said he just couldn't play LT at all and he has proven prophetic. I worry about Golson's size and length and don't think any amount of ball skills is really going to fix that.
To me, it's the worst pick in this year's draft. It was a "predetermined" pick that appears to have a lot of tunnel vision on the part of the Steelers front office. I don't like those types of picks.
To me it is also very typical of how we draft since Tomlin has become the head coach. See a problem, then tunnel vision "fixes" for that problem onto the next season's draft class. It bounces from "off-field" issues to special teams to punting to return game to turnovers to sacks/pressure to red zone to deep threats.
Tombert's management of the roster seems very short sighted. Team's not getting enough sacks? Draft "sack guys" high. Team's not getting enough in the return game? Push up ranking players based on speed and return ability. Team doesn't generate turnovers? We better draft a kid that generates turnovers.
To me, this type of randomly prioritizing traits in prospects is so *** backwards to how you should be evaluating talent it's just crazy. You should judge talent the SAME EVERY YEAR that is completely regardless of what weaknesses you have created on your roster through years of neglect in the first place. I'm not saying QB pressure, turnovers, return ability, red zone ability or team speed aren't important. They are, but they are equally important every year, every draft class, every prospect.
That's not how it appears to work in Pittsburgh anymore. I have no idea what we will be looking for in prospects next year, but I guarantee it will have something to do with something we're bad at this year on the field.
Interception total is irrelevant or kind of irrelevant hmmmmmm...
See certain picks/interceptions could be gimmes etc. it could be competition small school concerns ..etc.
but production will always get a eye a look whether it is in the draft or as a undrafted.
And size concerns factor in, into the equation.
but we can't judge mental toughness and heart.....
so you will see fails and players that contribute
but the fails I wouldn't say you could point a finger and say see he was 5'9 bust.... or almost 5'9 bust.
Steelers have for a long time preferred football players..... I think production is intertwined with that formula to find them..............
See certain picks/interceptions could be gimmes etc. it could be competition small school concerns ..etc.
but production will always get a eye a look whether it is in the draft or as a undrafted.
And size concerns factor in, into the equation.
but we can't judge mental toughness and heart.....
so you will see fails and players that contribute
but the fails I wouldn't say you could point a finger and say see he was 5'9 bust.... or almost 5'9 bust.
Steelers have for a long time preferred football players..... I think production is intertwined with that formula to find them..............
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I did not like the pick but I am not going that far. The Titans drafting Mariota would rank worse in my book.
Hmmm, I see another "Archer" type of debate here. What was the record length (in pages) for the Archer threads? 
The way I see it is this:
With the way the NFL is enforcing the rules, you can't hardly breathe on a receiver. You can't really bang the receivers around anyway, taking away some of the advantage of being a bigger guy. You can't hit the QB high or low or in the middle it seems like. Due to this, QBs today overall are a hell of a lot more accurate than in the past. If you don't have to worry about someone coming at your legs that sure helps. So the way I see it, you better be able to cover some of the quick stuff and get the pressure when they try to go longer. I don't know if too many of the taller corners can get that quick coverage. And, if you don't get pressure, you are ****** most of the time anyway on the longer ball regardless of if the corner is 6'1" or 5'9".
I understand that college picks may not mean a guy will get them in the pros, but I still would rather start with that as opposed to a guy who doesn't get them. You would think a guy like PJ Williams would have more in that with all the talent on that defense at FSU, you would think there would be some balls flying around. That would be a red flag to me for a corner, being on a talented defense and not making turnovers.
With the way the NFL is enforcing the rules, you can't hardly breathe on a receiver. You can't really bang the receivers around anyway, taking away some of the advantage of being a bigger guy. You can't hit the QB high or low or in the middle it seems like. Due to this, QBs today overall are a hell of a lot more accurate than in the past. If you don't have to worry about someone coming at your legs that sure helps. So the way I see it, you better be able to cover some of the quick stuff and get the pressure when they try to go longer. I don't know if too many of the taller corners can get that quick coverage. And, if you don't get pressure, you are ****** most of the time anyway on the longer ball regardless of if the corner is 6'1" or 5'9".
I understand that college picks may not mean a guy will get them in the pros, but I still would rather start with that as opposed to a guy who doesn't get them. You would think a guy like PJ Williams would have more in that with all the talent on that defense at FSU, you would think there would be some balls flying around. That would be a red flag to me for a corner, being on a talented defense and not making turnovers.
Golson played exclusively outside at Ole Miss...
4.4 40 speed ain't slow - and we don't run coverage defense...but, I like the comparison to Brent Grimes better than Darryl Green...
No need to explain, Crimson - no need at all. We know exactly what Golson did on the play and we also know what our non-playmaking TE did as well...
He would NOT have been there at 3.87 - no way. But, can anyone prove that???
The last play of the SB discounts your comment...
I hated the pick when it was made. absolutely hated it.
then I looked at the dude. and read more reports about him.
first - the "irrelevant interceptions total". Golson has what - 16 in his collegiate career? That's two more than Ike has in his entire NFL career. What that proves to me is the guy can catch the ball. How many times did we see a ball hit Ike square in the hands only to be dropped? I loved Ike and all, but his weakness was an inability to catch. Golson's only weakness is his height.
I'm now more indifferent towards Golson than I was when his name was announced - and hoping that Carnell Lake and co. know more about these guys than we do.
then I looked at the dude. and read more reports about him.
first - the "irrelevant interceptions total". Golson has what - 16 in his collegiate career? That's two more than Ike has in his entire NFL career. What that proves to me is the guy can catch the ball. How many times did we see a ball hit Ike square in the hands only to be dropped? I loved Ike and all, but his weakness was an inability to catch. Golson's only weakness is his height.
I'm now more indifferent towards Golson than I was when his name was announced - and hoping that Carnell Lake and co. know more about these guys than we do.
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Pretty safe assumption that "Lake and co do". And if he's only a nickel back tell me how much Seattle would have given for one who could cover while Brady and his slot receivers were abusing them in the SB.
I agree. After listening to some of the position coaches post draft describing the players strengths, seems as though they may draft BPA in the 1st, but reach for need after that.
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I think they believe they are drafting "Best Player Available", but the definition is really starting to change into "Best Player Available for my team, right now, for the problems we have".
Those are two different things in my opinion.
Those are two different things in my opinion.
y'all right...sucks that they are drafting guys that might actually play where they really don't have anyone
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I think Coates and Jesse James were probably BPA or very close to it, Holliman too, he even was projected to go on the 4th round.
Grant was more than a solid 4th round pick, the guy could've gone in the 3rd
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I liked our draft except rd 2. I would have take Alex Carter or, who I wanted...PJ Williams. Hell, we could have maybe traded down foe and extra 4 th rounder.I liked Grant in rd 4. My only big complaint is Golson in rd 2. PJ Williams here and I'm happy. Rollins was more of a safety.
Like it was said above...we didn't have turnovers, so lets draft a kid who gets turnovers. Ok, but we need a guy who can potentially start over Gay and/or Cortez. Golson cannot do that. Grant is solid and reminds me of Gay, but maybe turns out to be even better.
Like it was said above...we didn't have turnovers, so lets draft a kid who gets turnovers. Ok, but we need a guy who can potentially start over Gay and/or Cortez. Golson cannot do that. Grant is solid and reminds me of Gay, but maybe turns out to be even better.
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I agree. I thought day 3 of this draft was pretty decent.
I have no problem with Coates - Grant - James. I think they try Grant at FS but we will see.
This thread is just about Golson and that is the one pick I have substantial worries about. Not sure it will help "fix" the problems this team has identified on the back end as much as they think it will.
Slot corners are a little like RT's to me. Even when you draft a good one, even when you decide to give a good one a 2nd contract, it kind of acts as a road block as a development tool for outside the number's CB's (because they can't start getting reps as a nickel defender) just like a LT project can't get adjusted to the NFL at RT (because you have an entrenched starter in this way).
We gave a 2nd contract to Colon at RT and now we gave a decent 2nd contract to Gilbert. I think that inhibits our ability to develop and find a really good LT. Based on our lack of offensive line draft, I sort of suspect our team is pretty intent on signing both DeCastro and Beachum to long term contracts. And if not, then we missed an opportunity to plan ahead a bit.
I worry Golson is going to end up being a good, not great CB. He'll play a lot on nickel packages. He might play outside but not as effective as you'd like. But it's the long term issues of finding another good cornerback on the outside over the next 2 seasons I worry about.
We will see.
I agree 100%. I think we still need to find a long term starter opposite Cortez, assuming he gets back to playing well. Grant may end up playing FS, and Mitchell can play both spots if Shamarko cannot hack it.
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The only one that wasnt a pure BPA, was Golson- and they have been on record saying, if you choose to believe it, that this was their top CB pick in the 2nd.
The other picks all clearly appear to be BPA
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Colbert on Golson -- "Senquez was targeted to be picked in the second round, without a doubt. We were going to come out of that round with a corner and that was never a discussion. In fact we tried to trade up to secure Senquez Golson. Just to set the record straight."
that's going to fuel this thread to at least 15 more pages.
I saw his quote...don't believe it for a second...total BS. Either we wanted Maxx, and the Rats screwed us, and we dropped the ball, or we couldn't trade up for Jalen Collins or Rowe and settled for this kid.
The guy played in the SEC. Faced some stiff competition week and week out. His lack of height didn't affect him in the Major football conference in college football. Not saying he will be star or anything but to consider him a wasted pick is crazy to me. He's done it and at a high level in a big conference. Antonio Brown is the best WR in football when everybody believes you need to 6-3 or bigger to even be considered.
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I think Rowe was the one they targeted to trade up, maxx was just a smoke screen and the ravens bit on it
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Maxx definitely was not going to be the pick. The guy over on Reddit, who worked at the restaurant which Golson watched the draft, said that Golson received the call from the Steelers several picks before the Ravens- and his family was already hugging and crying well before Maxx was picked.
It looks like Bmore just bit on a head fake. Finally Colbert outsmarting Ozzie.
However, I do believe that Rowe was the #1 and that Golson was the #2 CB on their board