MUTH
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It would be really nice to see.
So far, he's been really underwhelming in that extension.
So far, he's been really underwhelming in that extension.
Another poor to mediocre pick from that draft..
He has been very underwhelming and there are probably a dozen or more talented tight ends in the league..
He has been very underwhelming and there are probably a dozen or more talented tight ends in the league..
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He’s ok but if they could redraft I would much rather have had Creed Humphrey the center for the Chiefs.
He’s so far down the list of top TEs. Not much of a blocker and adequate as a receiver. Doesn’t do much for me!
That draft instead of the now departed Najee I would have preferred Landon Dickerson number one and Creed Humphrey number two.
Instead they made two luxury picks rather than build the trenches.
He’s so far down the list of top TEs. Not much of a blocker and adequate as a receiver. Doesn’t do much for me!
That draft instead of the now departed Najee I would have preferred Landon Dickerson number one and Creed Humphrey number two.
Instead they made two luxury picks rather than build the trenches.
I mean his first two years were historic in several ways... he had an injury filled 23 season then last year and a pretty good year... TEs typically have their primes a bit later than other positions, many dont have breakout seasons till year 5.... its not really often a position young guys thrive at
Regret over not drafting Creed blinds people to how good Muth has really been for a young guy.
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Career high in receptions last year, 2nd most yards of his career, 7 TDs.
Tied for 8th in the NFL in receptions for a TE, 12th in yards, 8th in receptions of 20+ yards, 4th in TDs.
He's the 9th highest paid TE in the league. He's doing quite well with bad QB play in a dated offensive system.
I just want him healthy for the season...
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Facts are facts....can't argue the numbers.
I believe Muth is the only TE to have 50 receptions plus in his first 2 seasons. Odd really but I believe that is factual.
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Agreed. I'd say he's an above average TE. Nothing great, but still pretty good, on an offense that has featured mostly poor QB play that's avoided the MOF since Ben has left. However, in most fans' eyes he will always be linked to Humphrey. Even more difficult for him is that he will have to now compete with Jonnu Smith for targets as well as Washington, who looks ready to take on a bigger role.
See I think he is chronically underrated here.and its because of a lot of reasons...
-Part of that is the slop offense we run, its dragged down everyones potential the past few years... and the oline being trash for the start of his career meant we kept tes in to block a lot, limiting his opportunities in the passing game..
-part of it is that he isnt a great blocker... and the Steelers historically dont know what to do with a receiving specialist TE... this both loses him snaps to lesser TEs ( he only has 37 starts in his 4 year career because they frequently start guys like Washington or Gentry over him on run plays... and while other top tes get over 100 targets a season, some even over 150, Friermuth has averaged 75 targets per season to date
-part of it is the 23 season... Freiermuth put up ridiculous numbers for a first two season player...TEs arent great out of the box..
Like in the history of the NFL, he was the 2nd all time to have 60+ catches his first two seasons... and his total catches his first two seasons were 9th all time for tes in that timeframe...
and these were impactful catches... he was the 7th TE in NFL history to catch 70 or more first downs in his first two seasons
Then 2023 happened... a 32 catch 2td injury filled season and it derailed his trajectory ... his first four season matches well with a lot of great Tes... but his use here limits him too much...
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I don't think it's fair to look at any offensive player's performance over the last five years with the lack of stability at QB and the absolute ***** offensive coordinators and offensive game plans/schemes.
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So in his career year his stat production matched his pay slotting almost exactly, his blocking left a lot to be desired too so that’s a minus.
One year where his stat production matched his pay slotting is indeed underwhelming to me. If he was a decent-great blocker maybe a little more leeway (but he’s not).
I 100% stand by the comment that it would be nice to see him earning that contract and that the extension has been largely underwhelming thus far.
If he can’t do it in a TE friendly system with a future HOF QB that will be a huge disappointment and very underwhelming, hopefully he can. Maybe having Jonnu Smith here will further motivate him.
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Good post, good stuff in there. That is a great stat pull on year 1-2 TEs.
For some reason, must be the crap blocking, I guess I probably under rate him as he only had the one really poor year (in a bad system with bad QB play). Could also be I was a die hard Creed guy and I can’t shake that.
Just wanted to focus in on this one part tho
I call it the “Roethlisberger effect”
Man he made so many receiving targets perform above their level.
Your year 1-2 60 catch stat hit me wondering what Heath did his first 2 years with entry-level Ben
PF: 123 catches 1229 yards 9 TDs
HM: 73 catches 846 yards 11 TDs
Again, great post Mad…you definitely have me questioning if I’m too harsh on the guy from one down year in a crap system with crap QB play.
Hopefully he and Jonnu Smith blow it up this year.
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Great post 448, thank you
Those are pretty good stats. At one point with Ben at QB, Muth was top 5 TE in the league.
As for the Creed Humphrey argument, I was all for Creed. At the time of that pick, Creed was more important and had we been vested in The Kahn & Weidl dual, we would have picked him. The Green kid experiment was very subpar and saddled Ben extensively as opposed to had Creed been selected.
Thing is, Muth is here and a Steelers player thus I shall root for him.
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If we had Heath Miller this offense would be far better off. Heath never got the credit or respect he deserved. I think Muth gets credit/ hype he doesn't deserve. He's been decent at times, but never been a difference maker. Especially in big games.
Good conversation with you and Mad. I might add a couple stats left out on those first two seasons of each.
PF- had 177 balls thrown his way.
HM- had 107. Huge difference.
Many of us (including myself) have been yelling for more attempts to Pat. But actually he does get quite a few attempts. It’s that all important lack of throwing to the middle that befuddles us.
I like Pat. I think he could be elite, but obviously QB play OLine play and scheme has held him back. I actually think we are lucky he signed a second contract. With the QB players he has had over his career,and the search still continues next season,he could have picked a far more stable organization offensively for I’m quite sure the same or more money. And I guarantee you he scratched his head a bit when they got Jonnu.
When we compare PF to HM let’s never forget HM was one of the best all around TE’s in the game. His blocking was outstanding which is a huge part of being a TE. Not just a glorified WR.
Jonnu can line up in every position,creating a mismatch. He’s an incredible athlete. It’s going to be interesting to see how many targets our 3 TE’s have at the end of this season.
Edit…..I forgot one other important stat. Interestingly enough when I think of Heath…..I think of all the first down connects he had. His first 4 seasons 105 first downs. Pat had 120 in his first four. But once again….Heath had 234 targets…Pat 320.
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Good points
Targets and usage are definitely a factor in the discrepancy of stats, and hell yeah….Heath was an excellent blocker, he made the run game go. My type of TE.
I’d love to see them tap into Big 0’s potential as well. Mount Washington may not accelerate too quickly but has good speed for that size and is a RZ mismatch just waiting to happen. When it comes to blocking he’s as good as it gets.
Rather than playing into team’s strengths I’d love to see a lot of 13 personnel as our base. Teams just are not equipped to deal with the size DK, Muth, Snith and Washington would bring to the table. Should be able to run well if teams send out too many DBs and pass pretty effectively if they go big and deploy LBs. Arthur Smith needs to dictate the matchups/mismatches he could present with the 13 personnel groupings. Don’t just give reps to Roman Wilson/CA3 thinking ya have to have 2WRs as a base…save them for 3rd and long which we shouldn’t see too much of if using 3 TE sets primarily:
Consider he and most other key players haven't played its kinda hard to have a loud camp.
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Facts are facts....can't argue the numbers.
I believe Muth is the only TE to have 50 receptions plus in his first 2 seasons. Odd really but I believe that is factual.
LaPorta caught 86 and 60 in his first two seasons.
Keith Jackson 81, 63.
Brock Bowers had 112 as a rook, he’ll get 50+ unless he gets hurt.
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I was a Creed guy as well, but I don't get too caught up that he fell to the second. The Steelers mistake wasn't taking Freiermuth over Humphrey, it was taking Najee over Humphrey.
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They made the same mistake twice, doubling down on Tombert’s weapons replace blockers misguided theory. But totally get what you’re saying…I was hoping for Creed in the first, ready to throw the tv out the window after passing in the 2nd.
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I’m really ****-ing glad you didn’t throw that TV out the window as I was walking by eating pudding made in the box. I didn’t want the fear of having to put it back into the box.
Reality is either Harris or Muth swhould have been CREED. I was elevated in temperament as I watched not just one, but also a second pass on him. Creed has been pro-bowl his entire career including rookie starting.
Najee is long gone and Muth has yet to take it over the top. Jesse James is more famous for one play than Muth is for his career. I know, I know…….. that’s not how good players are determined, but none the less it is true.
Muth is here and I’m fully on board for his success. That success will be determined on the Arthur Smith new offense.
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