• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

What ???? Nothing said about Dan Moore Jr.......... !!!

FSF said:
100%.

So far no one has targeted Green at C in preseason—aimed to make it difficult. He’s not been “challenged” yet.

I expect come Baltimore that they try and exploit his inexperience.
Click to expand...

Not sure what you mean, so ill respond to both possibilities.
Eagles challenged Greene hard.. Their first team had Kendrik Green on roller skates.

The coaching staff has NOT challenged Green. He has been handed what they said they wouldnt do with Dotson. Essentially handed a starting role.
While today Trai Turner who i predict will be out of the lineup one way or the other by week 4 , Is claiming Kenrick Green is his center. WTF.
(see the Depot article)
Think about it , what if our better line up might be Green at guard with Hassenaur or Finney at Center.
 
BLITZ said:
Moore will be starting at left tackle by week 4.

What a great draft.
1st 4 picks starting 1st year.
Loudermilk should develop into a quality starter in a few years also
Click to expand...
Lets not forget about Roche. Should be at least a depth rotational edge and core special teamer. And a starting punter.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
Not sure what you mean, so ill respond to both possibilities.
Eagles challenged Greene hard.. Their first team had Kendrik Green on roller skates.

The coaching staff has NOT challenged Green. He has been handed what they said they wouldnt do with Dotson. Essentially handed a starting role.
While today Trai Turner who i predict will be out of the lineup one way or the other by week 4 , Is claiming Kenrick Green is his center. WTF.
(see the Depot article)
Think about it , what if our better line up might be Green at guard with Hassenaur or Finney at Center.
Click to expand...
You had 2 NFL Starters at the G postion last year. Dotson didn't have to start.

Pouncey surprise retired leaving Finney and JC as options but both are only spot starters, not full season starters. Green is the biggest talent upgrade to all of them. None of the other options can get to level 2 or 3 like Green can. He needs to improve in pass pro, but he was pancaking people in the running game.

It's not an improvement brining JC or BJ on the field to be a starting center. I'd rather pick up a vet if that happened.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
Not sure what you mean, so ill respond to both possibilities.
Eagles challenged Greene hard.. Their first team had Kendrik Green on roller skates.

The coaching staff has NOT challenged Green. He has been handed what they said they wouldnt do with Dotson. Essentially handed a starting role.
While today Trai Turner who i predict will be out of the lineup one way or the other by week 4 , Is claiming Kenrick Green is his center. WTF.
(see the Depot article)
Think about it , what if our better line up might be Green at guard with Hassenaur or Finney at Center.
Click to expand...
Fair enough B&G Bleeder,

I could have been more clear. Upon re-watching the Lions game, they did not challenge Green. I've been too busy at work to replay the Eagles game recording to review his performance.

Now, I have to not just throw you under the bus, but back over you many times with spiked tires! What are you going to Depot for? I may ask Coolieman for special dispensation to get you treated in the early Diamond Dave days and have you obliterated like Bengals poster Black Jesus used to by Coolie, Supes, Vader, Spike and the rest. There's a wealth of knowledge on SteelerNation.com that blows away Depot! Shame on you and I texted Supes to give you a 5-minute ban.

Just being light hearted of course.

I was partial to a veteran center to begin with as well, but always had the hope that Green would supplant by week 5-6. If Green is outperforming them (to which none of us can see on a daily basis), do you really think a pair of guys, with all due respect, who are definitely not starters in the NFL in Finney/Hassenauer are the answer? Green is going to make mistakes, but having a veteran who has played in the Super Bowl next to him will help. Just out of curiosity, what evidence do you have that he is being "handed" the starting role?

That brings to Turner, and I can't see why you are down on Turner, given that he's only 28 and the most experienced (and proven) OL of the group. I don't know about you, but I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to a 5x Pro Bowl Guard who was cut because of cap reasons - when the cap led to multiple casualties of quality players - especially when you just signed a $45M deal with $20.5 "guaranteed" but suffered from injuries when facing a cap challenged off-season.

Should Dotson have played last season? I think so. Feiler was not as good a guard as he was a RT. He didn't have the speed to pull and he looked confused often. And I do watch the OL on film. I can cite specific examples. Nonetheless I think it came down to 2 things - #1, he earned the coaches trust over a period of time. As point of reference, in his book Cowher referenced the 1996 QB competition between Tomczak, Stewart and Miller. While he did say none of them "won" it, he only started Miller because he knew he could pull him. He always trusted Tomcazk the most. And it makes some sense that the staff would trust Feiler, who played multi seasons and did everything they asked of him to earn trust. #2 - something Auburn assistant coach and former Steelers Super Bowl Champion Kendall Simmons said on the draft podcast by SN Stryker -- you don't find that on Depot -- about how his experience as player and coach, it was difficult to really coach hands on in 2020 with younger guys with the restrictions.

That being said, it seems like you are suggesting to replace the most seasoned and successful OL of the group by "handing the guard position" to Green and playing a journeyman center?

If that is what you're getting from Depot, No wonder SN has more followers than SteelerNation Unite.

Oh, yeah, and go Yinzhers too!
 
FSF said:
I’m okay with Banner at RT. He’s not quick, but strong. On the run block he can maul guys, and they did not have that last year.
Click to expand...

And if Banner really struggles, you move Chuks there and get Moore at LT. I know it's a small sample size, but he looks really good (Moore) so far.
 
Steelworth said:
And if Banner really struggles, you move Chuks there and get Moore at LT. I know it's a small sample size, but he looks really good (Moore) so far.
Click to expand...
I don't think Banner will struggle at all. I think he'll be a fixture at RT for a while. He's worked his way through multiple years in the league, made it farther than most against longer odds and injury. Will he dominate? Can see him making a single Pro Bowl at most, but we've seen guys like John Jackson, Max Starks and Justin Strzelczyk man the OT position for years and do so solidly.

Okorafor is the guy who just doesn't give the feeling that he's going to make it to the next level. I can be wrong and will respect that he gives his best - but in the end might be limited like Willie Colon ultimately was. And I liked Colon, especially after meeting him. Good guy.
 
FSF. I hope im wrong.. and yeah the guy is 28 and has some pro bowls. I'm not impressed. Lets focus on him against Panthers and reconvene.

As far as depot. I read whatever i can. No i didnt get this opinion from Depot.

I think Green can be a really good guard as well as a center.
I think we need our guards mobile. Turner dont impress me in that regard.. But dont take my non professional opinion for gospel. This is my opinion thus far.

My reference to depot was the statement by Turner that "green is my center".
 
  • Like
Reactions: FSF
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
FSF. I hope im wrong.. and yeah the guy is 28 and has some pro bowls. I'm not impressed. Lets focus on him against Panthers and reconvene.

As far as depot. I read whatever i can. No i didnt get this opinion from Depot.

I think Green can be a really good guard as well as a center.
I think we need our guards mobile. Turner dont impress me in that regard.. But dont take my non professional opinion for gospel. This is my opinion thus far.

My reference to depot was the statement by Turner that "green is my center".
Click to expand...
If you didn't know, I am part of the team contributing to the site. I just wanted to joke with you a bit - but if you didn't know I contributed to many articles and other areas, you may not have gotten the full context. But hopefully you understood I wasn't being serious with your reading choices. Just my obvious bias and happy that you participate here.

I'll appreciate anyone's opinion who doesn't take their opinion as the only right one. I completely get the desire to have a veteran at the center position (more than any other OL position) and really wished Pouncey had one more year in him. I didn't think he played badly last year at all, but upon the reveal he played in pain constantly, it's clear on film he just no longer manhandled blockers with a forward push like he used to. That required going back a few years and viewing random games from 2014-2016. Pouncey abused opponents and controlled them. He went from that to not making errors (forget the bad snap from playoff game please, I beg of you). As a chess player, there is a difference between forcing moves when you know the outcome to making best move you think and if opponent doesn't play move you want, you can lose. Best analogy can think of top of head.

I don't see anything wrong with Turner yet. It could be similar to the Pouncey reference above. If Turner is restricted to not making mistakes at this point in time in his career, he's got 6 years of experience to tutor Green. I really liked DeCastro, but his personality wasn't one (admitted as such) to be vocal - a true introvert. In this situation - as DeCastro also played in a lot of pain last year - Turner could be an upgrade. DeCastro was a beast, but as neither he nor Pouncey could generate the power they used to after years of wear and tear, that is a big part of why the line couldn't generate a push and we were terrible on 3rd and short.

All that being said, the "initial duo" of J.C./B.J. is not going to generate a push. Nothing against them, but they lack the "NFL strength." They have experience, but nothing like Turner. Given the choice, I would trust Turner to mentor Green -- Kendall Simmons credited a lot of his early growth to listening to Jeff Hartings (a 5-year starter in Detroit) and he was amazed that plays turned out exactly as Hartings read them to be. Green is going to make mistakes and I'm prepared to live with them, as long as he learns from them. In turn, I prefer to get the push from the line (particularly from Dotson, Green, Banner) we didn't have in 2020 as a tradeoff.

Dotson starting last year was something I harped on myself - meaning we are in agreement. Began saying it after 1st Baltimore game - move Feiler back to RT and Dotson to LG. Best example was 3rd and 1 at the end of 1st Ravens game. First down ends the game, Feiler blew the assignment so badly that he literally was blocking Ebron in the back and left the hole wide open. Our tackle eligible on strong side moved to double team inside and left the edge rusher unblocked. Before Conner touched the ball, 2 Ravens were running unblocked and in backfield before Conner even got the ball, he never had a chance. The ironic thing was neither made the tackle, but disruption was enough. This wasn't the only screw up like that on the year, but it's an example.

I already gave my reasons why I think they didn't do it, but still think they should have.
 
I understand. And i know you do articles here.
I KNOW the critical element of this season is the Oline. I KNOW it.
so im really watching all those guys. I played it at school. I dont pretend to know the ways of the jedi anymore.
I honestly thought aviante collins would make good here, given his heated competition with Dakota Dozier last year at Vikings.
BUT hey,, they cut him yesterday. I liked his ability to move and his speed. Maybe thats not needed as much as i thought.

Recently when Faneca was going to the hall, " THEY" showed a lot of tape on him,, pulling and fold blocks and getting down field. It was an awesome film.
Last game vs. Lions when Haskins got in, you seen pulls by dotson? and finney. In successive plays,, one right , then one left.. They moved the ball. So that element is still alive in Canada's game plan. So,, i dont want to be talking out my ***. I guess i need to chart Turners plays and give em a grade. But i dont have that 22 game film or whatever kozora does , (i like his breakdowns).
Anyway. I encourage anyone reading to take a look and ill make a thread about turner after next preseason game. We can discuss ad nauseum, sans a Dri Archer blathering .

Oh btw i also liked what I seen from Malcolm Pridgeon. Albeit against 2nd/3rd team.

I dont have enough faith yet with Banner and Chukes. Dotson is my solid.
 
FSF said:
I don't think Banner will struggle at all. I think he'll be a fixture at RT for a while. He's worked his way through multiple years in the league, made it farther than most against longer odds and injury. Will he dominate? Can see him making a single Pro Bowl at most, but we've seen guys like John Jackson, Max Starks and Justin Strzelczyk man the OT position for years and do so solidly.

Okorafor is the guy who just doesn't give the feeling that he's going to make it to the next level. I can be wrong and will respect that he gives his best - but in the end might be limited like Willie Colon ultimately was. And I liked Colon, especially after meeting him. Good guy.
Click to expand...

I hope you're right about Banner. I love the guy and his personality. Chuks has all the potential in the world IMO (huge, well-proportioned frame, quick feet etc.) but it's his demeanor that worries me most. And it's way past time he started showing something already.
 
FSF said:
I completely get the desire to have a veteran at the center position (more than any other OL position) and really wished Pouncey had one more year in him. I didn't think he played badly last year at all, but upon the reveal he played in pain constantly, it's clear on film he just no longer manhandled blockers with a forward push like he used to. That required going back a few years and viewing random games from 2014-2016. Pouncey abused opponents and controlled them. He went from that to not making errors (forget the bad snap from playoff game please, I beg of you). As a chess player, there is a difference between forcing moves when you know the outcome to making best move you think and if opponent doesn't play move you want, you can lose. Best analogy can think of top of head.
Click to expand...

If you reviewed Pouncey's performance in 2020, you'd have noticed that he had many bad snaps (high and low, left and right, rollers, all over the place) other than the fateful one which gifted 7 points to the Browns and set the tone for a blowout. Obviously they all weren't as blatant and completely out of Ben's reach, but nonetheless they were there. I remember remarking about it last year, and in 2019, too.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
topseed.. i guess we all can degnerate with age on the eye hand stuff.

But as far as his O line play?
Click to expand...
Pouncey was 31 years old last season. His hand-eye coordination was degenerating at that age? I don't know about you, but I was in the prime of my life at 31. Physically and mentally. And you would think after being a center for that long, snapping the football would have become more of a rote procedure for Pouncey, rather than a degenerative coordination issue.

As far as his O-line play overall, I agree with FSF in that Pouncey was no longer controlling the line of scrimmage like he had earlier in his career. I'm looking forward to a change at the position.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top