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What have you seen you like better with Butler vs DL is it time fior a 4-3?

F83

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ok it has been a full season and a qtr of a year. Butler hs requested quicker DL who penetrate as opposed to DL who wanted DE to be more cloggers and space eaters.
There was all this talk that Butler wanted to use some 4-3 we saw just bits of it last year and in games we did we saw Shazier with monsters number last years home opener, Heyward can anchor a 4-3, Tuitt can kick inside and you have the ability when Dupree is back to occasionally use him as a De or Chick a former college 4-3 end.

There is something Butler has done he has with depending on who the CB is lined up vs with Cockrell decreased histhe cushion, but due to lack of speed Gay has the bigger cushion, I foreshadow a more man coverage once Burns is more up to date with the play book and I see hopefully Gilbert as the main slot CB due to speed and ball instincts.
What really bothers is after being by DL side for so long the formula to have a dominate 3-4 is you need a NT who will occupy 2 OL that usually means a 320 or larger NT, thus I was interested in both Bama DT's especially A'shawn a good penetrating space eater. Day and Billings where good candidates until their medical issues were revealed. Hargrave is wide and can penetrate well to, thus I think Butler sees him as a versatile guy who can be the starting NT and if he wants to go 4-3 kick him to the 3T.
Now Mcullers is 6'6 350 and when on the field has been in movable almost like Casey. But he is not getting enough reps, there is no pass rush and even with Cam coming back the 2 OLB's are hardly pass rush specialists. This vs Flacco will give him time to target Wallace @ aiken and dink it to the TE's. The D must push the pocket hard and often to decrease the time Flacco gets.
Until you get Dupree back and some between Jones, Harrison Moats @ Chick show they can get to the qb and how bad the run D was I would like to see now some 4-3 The 3-4 with the current default calls has been brutal until the troops gets their act to together.
here are 2 4-3 formation suggestions to use 15% of the reps the Brick wall DL
DE Moats NT Mcullers DT Tuitt De Heyward OLB Jones MLB Shazier OLB Timmons
versatile 4-3 DE Chickllo DT Heyward DT Hargrave DE Tuitt OLB Shazier MLB Williams OLB Timmons

Both these front 7's give you enough beef and speed at olb to drop or come pounding downhill.

I think Butler needs to do more what he wants and starting building his playbook and start dumping some of DL common plays that are beyond easy to pick up like the cross blitzes and double loop until you have Worlids and someone on the strong side that can get pressure constantly like perhaps Shazier.
the 2-4-5 is to easy for OL to push and let the RB get to the outside like Ajai and Blount did, of course had Cam played there is no way Blount or Jay would of had those creases. It is time both MT and Butler figure out some alternative formations to get to the qb and get some easy 3 and outs next week.
I just feel all our blitzes are predictable and the DB's we have a 3-4 zone attacking 3-4 is not working , I was thinking a 4-3 under with Shazier in the brooks tampa 2 MLB/S and Hopefully soon Davis at SS who can cover a lot of ground can be foundations for the coverage. I am not saying dump the 3-3 completely use both the 3-4 and 4-3 the way the pats, Ravens, Jets go back and forth. Something new must be done. This is a lot of frustrating from how the DL played a week after the DL gave up 160+ to ajayi, you would expect them at home to come out hungrier.
 
there used to be 2 or 3 teams running 3-4, we used to get stud pass rushers in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. with most teams running 3-4 the talent level have dried up, true NT'S are harder and harder to find.

we should definitely switch to 4-3....Jarvis Jones is made for this defense...he's a high energy, high motor guy....he can run around and make plays and tackle.

unlike years past....we have the personnel to switch...and add depth and talent through the draft since the offense is loaded.
 
If I had a dollar for every thread started (on various Steeler boards) on this topic, I'd own my own island by now. Quite honestly, I find a pure 4-3, that doesn't need to blitz to get QB pressure, to be ideal, especially since so many other teams run a 3-4 and draft the players we used to be able to get mid-round, like OLBs and DEs. Now we got to compete with half the league for those players.
 
If I had a dollar for every thread started (on various Steeler boards) on this topic, I'd own my own island by now. Quite honestly, I find a pure 4-3, that doesn't need to blitz to get QB pressure, to be ideal, especially since so many other teams run a 3-4 and draft the players we used to be able to get mid-round, like OLBs and DEs. Now we got to compete with half the league for those players.

Whatever defense the Steelers choose needs and least one more quality edge rusher.

If Dupree doesn't pan out the team is effed for at least two more seasons rushing the passer.
 
there used to be 2 or 3 teams running 3-4, we used to get stud pass rushers in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. with most teams running 3-4 the talent level have dried up, true NT'S are harder and harder to find.

we should definitely switch to 4-3....Jarvis Jones is made for this defense...he's a high energy, high motor guy....he can run around and make plays and tackle.

unlike years past....we have the personnel to switch...and add depth and talent through the draft since the offense is loaded.

I agree. Also teams had to specifically prepare more forthe 3-4 when it was not common place. Now that it's a standard defense it's no where near as difficult.
 
Like Jones, we will have to wait until year 3 to see if Dupree can do anything. This year is pret y much a wash. Even if he comes back this year, he won't be in football shape and you really can't count on him to do much.

Hell, were talking about a 3-4 going to a 4-3 when we use only 2 linemen on most plays and we throw in a LB or maybe 2 to help rush the passer. It just doesn't work. As I have said before, we need a big nose tackle like Big Snack was that can play all three downs and occupy 2 offensive linemen on most plays.
 
What could it hurt to try it as our main defensive package at least long enough to see what we've got.... MIGHT take some backside pressure off.



Salute the nation
 
They created turnovers last year...that was nice.
 
Thats what i dont understand.. The direction of the league is probably getting closer to playing 3 or 4 safeties rather than lbs or dlinemen.. 43 and 34 are dying concepts
 
I like the direction Butler has gone to defend the pass. At least we can see the attempt of the Hybrid.

Lebeau I think had better Dbacks. Better at a lot of positions.

you gotta remember, Butler knows what Lebeau knows. Only thing I can figure is he is handcuffed by lack of talent.
 
I want to see him try the 4-4-4!
 
The Steelers are too cheap to pay the kind of All-Pro studs you need to man a dominant pass rushing front 4 DL

This team has zero people capable of even being back-ups on a defense like that.
 
I'd do it... In fact I'd trade Wheaton for Sheldon richardson who the jets are shopping and make the switch. Richardson can play inside outside and get after the qb. We probably aren't going to resign Wheaton might as well as get something for him. But our personnel is best suited for a 4 man line I don't really care what you put behind it, tuitt and cam are the best young des in football and we seem hell bent on getting them double teamed and beat up every game.
 
The 3/4 and 4/3 are pretty much irrelevant anymore. The emphasis is really being focused on the nickel/sub packages. Black and gold bleeder pretty much summed up my view
 
I remember a few years back, I switched my defense for the Steelers on Madden 11 to a 4-3 and the results were disastrous. I don't think it is a good idea.
 
I like the direction Butler has gone to defend the pass. At least we can see the attempt of the Hybrid.

Lebeau I think had better Dbacks. Better at a lot of positions.

you gotta remember, Butler knows what Lebeau knows. Only thing I can figure is he is handcuffed by lack of talent.


I think so too
 
You got to have the horses to plow the field. We don't have the horses or they're in the barn healing up. I can see a jump forward by seasons end IF we get guys healthy and they remain healthy.
 
I think we under-estimated McClendon as a guy in the middle to anchor that line with Cam and Tuitt and let him go in FA. McCullers has done nothing. I like the potential in Hargrave but he's a rookie. I got a good feeling this defense will start to come together more as the season progresses. We will never be world beaters, but like last season, it appeared the defense, led by Shazier, gelled towards the latter half. Additionally, I hated I mean hated the Artie Burns pick. He's seems to be afraid of contact and doesn't stick his nose in there. I hate taking corners in 1st Rd unless they are cant miss guys like Patrick Peterson, Deoin, Charles Woodson, etc.
 
I think we under-estimated McClendon as a guy in the middle to anchor that line with Cam and Tuitt and let him go in FA. McCullers has done nothing. I like the potential in Hargrave but he's a rookie. I got a good feeling this defense will start to come together more as the season progresses. We will never be world beaters, but like last season, it appeared the defense, led by Shazier, gelled towards the latter half. Additionally, I hated I mean hated the Artie Burns pick. He's seems to be afraid of contact and doesn't stick his nose in there. I hate taking corners in 1st Rd unless they are cant miss guys like Patrick Peterson, Deoin, Charles Woodson, etc.

It does seem Artie Burne shys away from contact. To be honest, that's where I liked Blake. Although he was horrible in coverage. He was gritty
 
The Steelers are too cheap to pay the kind of All-Pro studs you need to man a dominant pass rushing front 4 DL

This team has zero people capable of even being back-ups on a defense like that.

Read an article today that stated the Steelers will have a "historical" amount of cap space next offseason. Somewhere around $30 million. I have no idea if that's true (I have to believe that it won't be close to that high), but if it is, and after they take care of Brown and Bell, it should be interesting to see what their plans may be with such a huge amount. Again, I don't know if it'll even approach that number, but it sure would be interesting if it were.
 
I think we under-estimated McClendon as a guy in the middle to anchor that line with Cam and Tuitt and let him go in FA. McCullers has done nothing. I like the potential in Hargrave but he's a rookie. I got a good feeling this defense will start to come together more as the season progresses. We will never be world beaters, but like last season, it appeared the defense, led by Shazier, gelled towards the latter half. Additionally, I hated I mean hated the Artie Burns pick. He's seems to be afraid of contact and doesn't stick his nose in there. I hate taking corners in 1st Rd unless they are cant miss guys like Patrick Peterson, Deoin, Charles Woodson, etc.

Burns ABSOLUTELY has to get tougher in the running game. However, he has made some plays against the pass that show some promise.
 
mcullers needs reps he has the size and body to occupy 2 OL, remember a fragile guy like Shazier is not built to be a ilb the way farrier, @ Foote were he is speed and a hybrid specialist, you need to get people in front of who can stack and give him clear lanes so with his speed he can chase and make big hits.
 
mcullers needs reps he has the size and body to occupy 2 OL, remember a fragile guy like Shazier is not built to be a ilb the way farrier, @ Foote were he is speed and a hybrid specialist, you need to get people in front of who can stack and give him clear lanes so with his speed he can chase and make big hits.

That will never happen as long as we only use 2DL most of the time
 
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