A win is win
Vick was brutal but......
- Thread starter SteelerSask2
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AvonOhioSteeler
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Vick's throws to the sideline are an adventure. Anyone notice that the bubble screens didn't seem to be in the playbook last night?
It's Haley's fault. Bwahahaha!!
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None last week either. AB's bread and butter...get him the ball and let him do work!
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I don't agree. If Vick threw 8 deep balls then 1 may be complete and 2-3 would have been INTs.
Vick played terrible. He missed some basic throws. But you have to call the game to the players strengths. It is very clear to me that they are asking him to conform to Haley offense instead of designing 20 to 25 pass plays that would fit his skill set. That is poor coaching by Haley.
If you take Le'Veon Bell's 3 longest runs out of his statistics he had 18 carriers for 45 yards, just sayin.
Papillon
They had 7 in the box all night against single back. You are getting one on one all over the field. And besides a 45 yard interception doesn't hurt you. What really hurts is a pick six on a 10 yard out.
when the ****** can't throw 8-10 yds without the ball sailing 15-feet overhead, you have to chop those out of the playbook.
I think you're exaggerating a bit with the three picks and two pick-sixes. Realistically, two of the the three weren't going to be intercepted, let alone returned for touchdowns. The one out he floated was a horrible pass and definitely qualifies.
It's on Haley to put Vick in better situations. Even Vick's biggest supporters admit that he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer; you can't expect him to constantly be changing the plays at the line. The offensive coordinator should be able to anticipate that San Diego would be keying on Bell, and prepare the gameplan accordingly. That's his ******* job.
Before the final drive, I said we'd finally get a chance to see what Vick can do without Haley screwing him over. I think he showed just fine.
An offensive coordinator and a quarterback put together a game plan of plays that they think will work in certain situations during the game. A 10 year veteran quarterback with Ben's skill and knowledge of the game will be given the freedom to change any play sent in from the sideline. An offensive coordinator that wouldn't allow Ben that freedom is a liability, not one that gives him the freedom. I'm glad to hear that Ben changes 80% of the plays, a coordinator has no idea what a defense is going to do when they call the play. A great quarterback reads the defense pre-snap and determines if he should stay in the play or change the play. That's not a failure on the OC, that's a quarterback and OC working together to put the quarterback in a position to succeed regardless of what the defense is doing.
Mike Vick, at this point, is not ready to audible out of plays like Ben, he probably doesn't even know all of the hand signals needed to be able to audible out of a play. Gruden identified a play last night where if Ben were in the game its an easy pitch and catch because him and AB have their own set of signals if they see something. Mike Vick isn't there yet with the receivers, he needs to run the play and if its defended, throw the ball away and live to fight another day.
Haley and Vick are still trying to determine what each brings to the table, the Steelers should be leaning more on Haley until Vick gets more comfortable or Ben returns, IMO.
It wasn't pretty last night, but all in all I thought Vick did well under the circumstances.
Papillon
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2-3 45yd INTs do hurt and every time you throw a pick the chance for them to get a big play on D happens. Mostly though, Vick sucks so that game was managed as well as possible given we had a QB behind center that could barely complete a pass.
I blame the FO more than Vick though. Honestly, I think he is just collecting a pay check and I do think he knows where his WRs are supposed to be. He waits for them to get open and then slings it almost like - oh hey, he looks open now.
I'm still pissed we did not sign Hasselbeck, who was the obvious choice IMO.
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Vic was terrible, I give him cedit for one thing, when he ran at the end he put his head down and got all he could, his passes at the end took two great catches to move the ball. He was lost out on the field, his total lack of hurry up on the last 2 minutes was ridiculous. I'm happy with win but Tomlin decision to run to win showed all lack od confidence in Vic to go to overtime plus the defense was forced to be on the field the entire second half with one first down till last two minutes of the game.
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A 3 yard run is a lot better than an incomplete pass, believe it or not.
18 carries for 45 yards AND a TD.....
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Hand signals?
You are reaching badly. 95% of the time on a deep ball against single coverage if it is not complete it hits the ground. Saying he would have gotten picked 2-3 times if they threw deep is a huge stretch.
Geez Fog that is some sweet GM work by you. Able to lure a guy (who hates your franchise by the way, from his current team, knowing that his 40 year old arm is better than your backup and that you will need him. I'm glad that isn't, I don't know, maybe hindsight.
Yes Ben and Brown have subtle hand signals they use. A run play is called in the huddle and Ben sees a look he likes he will signal Brown. They are the only two who know the play has changed
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Matt Flynn is still out there, he would have been my choice... at least kick the tires. He played well in Green Bay's system, which is pretty much all timing patterns like ours is now. But we have Vick, gotta make the best of it...Hurry back Ben!
So Tomlin gets ****** again? 'No confidence in Vick'? How about getting the ball in the hands of our best player on the last play of the game? The same ******* thing the Tomlin-Teeth-Gnashers were screaming about the week before on 4th downs when 'Tomlin seemed to have more confidence in Vick'. -SMFH...
And take a dick off a boy and it's a girl. What's your point? They load the box and an extreme talent at RB can still manage over 5yds a carry, plus gets you the yard you need to win the game, when everyone knows where the ball is going. Sorry, I'm not buying what you're attempting to sell. I've seen Barry Sanders do the same damn thing. Line up 10 in the box because Rodney Pete and Andre Ware sure as **** can't pass it to win. Bam 50yd TD Barry Sanders after 4 negative runs. Players make plays, and Bell is our Playa!
I've watched Vick play about three to three and a half games now in total including pre season and it is pretty clear to me that his strengths are:
- Arm strength.
- Running in open field.
- Experience. He sucked *** last night for most of it, but a younger guy probably loses confidence last night and doesn't produce the game winning drive.
Clearly what he can't do well
- Accurately hit timing passes. He missed twice when all he has to do is hit the guy in the body. It looks to me that his lower body mechanics are terrible.
- Pocket vision. He climbs too late and allows himself to get surrounded.
To me that means you got to go play action, send guys deep with intermediate crosses. You also have to boot him out and let him threaten the edge and the LOS and put the defense in a bind. Also a few designed runs up the middle like on the game winning drive wouldn't hurt.
But that is just me.
- Arm strength.
- Running in open field.
- Experience. He sucked *** last night for most of it, but a younger guy probably loses confidence last night and doesn't produce the game winning drive.
Clearly what he can't do well
- Accurately hit timing passes. He missed twice when all he has to do is hit the guy in the body. It looks to me that his lower body mechanics are terrible.
- Pocket vision. He climbs too late and allows himself to get surrounded.
To me that means you got to go play action, send guys deep with intermediate crosses. You also have to boot him out and let him threaten the edge and the LOS and put the defense in a bind. Also a few designed runs up the middle like on the game winning drive wouldn't hurt.
But that is just me.
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You hit the nail on the head.
Vick wasn't spectacular but we'll take the win! He struggles with throwing passes to his right, missed about 3 of those in a row in the second half. Showed success when he was finally allowed to roll out to his left (he's a lefty). Haley will have to allow him to throw downfield more as well. Oh, and the announcer (Gruden) should STFU with suggesting Vick be taken out of the game, he proved them wrong. Go Steelers.
Here is the list IMO of Vick related issues this team is currently having, none of which are felony related....
1. Vick never fit this system. He isnt a timing QB. He makes long reads and throws to clearly open guys. He will throw the deep ball that wrs have to run to or the jump ball, but he isnt doing the quick snap/throw off of pre reads. it isnt his game. Big wrs and Tes are in his wheelhouse, but we underutilize Miller and Bryant is out.
2. He doesnt fit the star players we have. Vick isnt an accurate guy. Vick's arm is a cannon. he doesnt do touch passes well. he fires the ball and even when it is a catch it doesnt give them ample oportunity for YAC. As mentioned above he also certainly isnt using the crisp routerunning we have to his advantage This neutralizes Brown and, to a lesser extent, wheaton's greatest strengths. He also is more likely to run than to dump the ball to Bell, so that, too, is less than ideal for total use of a star player's talents.
3. He doesnt or cant audible out of clearly bad playcalls. Vick hasnt been here long enough to be comfortable in the O. its hard to blame him for this, but we are running vs stacked run defenses and passing vs well matched pass defenses. its a problem.
4.The coaching staff doesnt fully trust him. Our oline isnt geared for a pure running scheme. we dont have hogs that just plow lanes open. they are a lot of finesse guys and really its a pass first line now. Haley or tomlin dont seem comfortable with anything but a run first offense with Vick in there, but that is taxing a line that is not best suited for that role. Vick isnt established enough like Ben to force them out of the predictable run-run pass mode, and the shackled o is holding them back badly.
5. Vick is a turnover machine that looks to have gotten lucky thus far... he has a half dozen "should have been picks" already. He barely missed fumbling on a few runs where he didnt have the ball secured and already does have two fumbles this year... a third went out of bounds and wast even ruled a fumble.
They signed him late. much of this could have been mitigated with familiarity not only with the backup QB and the offense, but also the team and the player... knowing Vicks strengths and weaknesses and having a gameplan built to utilize and work around them. They knew Gradkowski was still hurt and should have known Landry was subpar... coming to camp with no other real QB was a terrible move in hindsight. Signing a guy that different to the guys you currently utilize that late was just foolhardy
1. Vick never fit this system. He isnt a timing QB. He makes long reads and throws to clearly open guys. He will throw the deep ball that wrs have to run to or the jump ball, but he isnt doing the quick snap/throw off of pre reads. it isnt his game. Big wrs and Tes are in his wheelhouse, but we underutilize Miller and Bryant is out.
2. He doesnt fit the star players we have. Vick isnt an accurate guy. Vick's arm is a cannon. he doesnt do touch passes well. he fires the ball and even when it is a catch it doesnt give them ample oportunity for YAC. As mentioned above he also certainly isnt using the crisp routerunning we have to his advantage This neutralizes Brown and, to a lesser extent, wheaton's greatest strengths. He also is more likely to run than to dump the ball to Bell, so that, too, is less than ideal for total use of a star player's talents.
3. He doesnt or cant audible out of clearly bad playcalls. Vick hasnt been here long enough to be comfortable in the O. its hard to blame him for this, but we are running vs stacked run defenses and passing vs well matched pass defenses. its a problem.
4.The coaching staff doesnt fully trust him. Our oline isnt geared for a pure running scheme. we dont have hogs that just plow lanes open. they are a lot of finesse guys and really its a pass first line now. Haley or tomlin dont seem comfortable with anything but a run first offense with Vick in there, but that is taxing a line that is not best suited for that role. Vick isnt established enough like Ben to force them out of the predictable run-run pass mode, and the shackled o is holding them back badly.
5. Vick is a turnover machine that looks to have gotten lucky thus far... he has a half dozen "should have been picks" already. He barely missed fumbling on a few runs where he didnt have the ball secured and already does have two fumbles this year... a third went out of bounds and wast even ruled a fumble.
They signed him late. much of this could have been mitigated with familiarity not only with the backup QB and the offense, but also the team and the player... knowing Vicks strengths and weaknesses and having a gameplan built to utilize and work around them. They knew Gradkowski was still hurt and should have known Landry was subpar... coming to camp with no other real QB was a terrible move in hindsight. Signing a guy that different to the guys you currently utilize that late was just foolhardy
Vick would really benefit from having Martavis Bryant available and healthy. Bryant's skill set meshes very well with Vick's unlike Wheaton and AB.