• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Vance McDonald is not LaDarius Green

Stryker

Stryker

Podcast/ VidCast/ Writer
Contributor
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
16,586
Reaction score
20,450
Points
113
Location
Section 228
Vance is not LaDarius, though the only stat they currently share is 6 games played as a Steeler.

Green came to the team injured. Had a hard time getting on the field, being on the PUP to start the season, though when he got in, he was very productive as a sure handed receiver. He racked up 304yds and a TE on 18 recs. Vance has 3 catches for 63 yards in the same amount of games. It's no question that Green was the more polished receiver and more of a threat with the ball in his hands.

Vance is more of a blocking TE, and is the best at it, on the team. His speed and quickness down field, turn him into a playmaker. The only downside? He has the hands of Ike Taylor. He is going to drop a wide open pass as often as he will make a big play downfield. Vance has also started 4 games to Green's 2.

These players just aren't the same. As blockers, receivers, or healthy team members, they are just far more different than they are alike.
 
He's not Heath either - and that's who Ben needs, a ******* TE that can run and catch the damn ball!

Clank is not going to get many more looks from Ben with those hands...can't trust him
 
All valid points Cope but your points make one thing perfectly clear, the Steelers need a play making tight end. Jesse just doesn't have the speed to be a TE full threat. Green no longer on the team but he validated a NEED for a legitimate w/speed TE. Even Vance shows what a little more speed can do for that position. I see a 2nd or 3rd spent this year on a TE. There is a "need for speed" obviously that can catch.




Salute the nation
 
And I agree Spike and DIC, I like Jesse James. He has good hands, good speed, runs good routes. He's good at everything, he's just not great at anything yet. Though I will say, I trust James to catch the ball over Green or Vance.
 
I think folks are giving up on James a bit too early. James isn't going to set the world on fire, true. But he's faster than Heath. Catches as well as Heath, but blocks worse than Heath.

The trick is figuring out his strengths and using him accordingly. In my limited capacity as a Steelers coach - I feel this has not been done. Perhaps Brad, you know Brad with the big brain, should figure out how to get James into some routes and coverage situations that can take advantage of what he is good at.

We KNOW he isn't going to break a 56 yard TD. Ya, we get that. But there's no reason on Earth he can't be a tremendous asset for a 9 yard route ALL THE ******* TIME when he's not chipping somebody or shoring up the end of the line. A linebacker should always have to be accounting for James in an outlet capacity. That should be something they NEED to consider. That should also be one of Ben's hard-wired "oh ****" reads. Where's Jesse?

But what do I know. Jesse James is just a freaky tall long-armed guy who happens to catch well, but doesn't have break-away speed. It's not like they could use him on say... 3rd and 4 ALL THE ******* TIME while they're sending a couple guys on some clearing routes and we know that Ben is perfectly willing to chuck that ball deep and the defense knows it too so the they HAVE to respect Martavis and Brown deep and they HAVE to watch JuJu as a possession receiver and they HAVE to keep an eye on the line because Bell can easily pick up 3 or 4 yards running even if you load up the box... Well - What do you know... Jesse James on a curl 5 yards upfield... conversion.

But again... wtf do I know.
 
I do recall being surprised by his speed on one catch last game...
 
wig said:
I think folks are giving up on James a bit too early. James isn't going to set the world on fire, true. But he's faster than Heath. Catches as well as Heath, but blocks worse than Heath.

The trick is figuring out his strengths and using him accordingly. In my limited capacity as a Steelers coach - I feel this has not been done. Perhaps Brad, you know Brad with the big brain, should figure out how to get James into some routes and coverage situations that can take advantage of what he is good at.

We KNOW he isn't going to break a 56 yard TD. Ya, we get that. But there's no reason on Earth he can't be a tremendous asset for a 9 yard route ALL THE ******* TIME when he's not chipping somebody or shoring up the end of the line. A linebacker should always have to be accounting for James in an outlet capacity. That should be something they NEED to consider. That should also be one of Ben's hard-wired "oh ****" reads. Where's Jesse?

But what do I know. Jesse James is just a freaky tall long-armed guy who happens to catch well, but doesn't have break-away speed. It's not like they could use him on say... 3rd and 4 ALL THE ******* TIME while they're sending a couple guys on some clearing routes and we know that Ben is perfectly willing to chuck that ball deep and the defense knows it too so the they HAVE to respect Martavis and Brown deep and they HAVE to watch JuJu as a possession receiver and they HAVE to keep an eye on the line because Bell can easily pick up 3 or 4 yards running even if you load up the box... Well - What do you know... Jesse James on a curl 5 yards upfield... conversion.

But again... wtf do I know.
Click to expand...



**** wig, all you're asking for is some coaching. WHERE the **** is our coaching when you need it????




Salute the nation
 
I think McDonald is an excellent blocker and has rare speed for the positon. These two attributes alone make him valuable, and its no surprise we run it best with him on the field. While his hands are iffy, I can deal with that as long as his two best attributes remain consistent and makes a defense pay everyone in a while with a big play.

With the emergence of Ju-Ju and Bryant having a lot to prove, teams won't game plan much for or TE's and this is where McDonald can hit a big play like he did a while back.

James is a 2nd TE. I'm not saying he should be out of the NFL, but he's really limited as blocker and run after the catch type of guy. While James has solid hands, he isn't alethic enough to make tough body adjustment type of catches.
 
The only place I disagree with you Wig is on Jesse's hands. They are good and have the potential to be great. Heath's hands were exceptional. He made very difficult catches, both in, and out of traffic, with excellent hand placement.

Xavier has good hands as well. Vince's hands are poor and unreliable, though his blocking is the best we have at tight end, and is a strength in the running game because of it.
 
Ya, I'll give you that Cope. Heath was vastly underrated as a receiver. He was ridiculously solid.

What I feel strongly about though is that James has a great frame and wingspan for use in those "outlet" routes that used to be assigned to guys like Verron Haynes. Admittedly Ben used to be quite a bit more mobile and he'd break the pocket, scramble often to his right and then find somebody like Verron on a shallow drag route.

Ben doesn't necessarily have to run all over hell's half acre anymore. But he really should be strongly considering "Hey, I really can take that dump-off to Jesse, or Le'veon this down. Cause every time I do THAT, they're going to keep a safety just a tad shallower and then I'm going to go ahead and give AB the jump ball against a corner, cause I KNOW he'd going to fight for it. And if MB even gets a step he's GOT to catch it sooner or later - I mean his ******' career depends on it. Martavis is metaphorically running for his life at this point. I suspect he'll try awful hard to track the ball down.

I truly believe that the Steelers are (without even meaning to do so) doing everything right. The Eagles are peaking too soon. The P*ts are going to be the ******* asterisks no matter what, so you just have to shove the ball right up their *** and then kick like a mother ****** and hope you get a FG right outta their teeth. KC is tough but we know Pittsburgh can hang with them if they play their A game.

I know there's that "Any given Sunday" thing but I would like to think at some point a couple leaders on the offensive and defensive side of the ball would get together and say, "Hey fellas, Dan passed last year, let's rally, eh?"
 
His hands are very suspect. He is starting to show some potential down field in the seam. Which is James big drawback. I think he might be more of a factor in the second half. Gotta catch Vance.
 
Vance better not be on the team next year. He's too costly for a mediocre TE, at best. The Steelers need to look at Gisecki in Rd 1 if he's available and if we don't need to go QB.
 
Not sure why all the hate on James. When he gets the chance to play and actually run routes (not staying in blocking), he gets open and catches the ball if it's near him. He's caught 2 TD's and several important first downs in limited targets. He has 20 catches in 28 targets with almost 200 yards. Not as bad as everyone makes him out to be. Vance has as many drops as he does catches and his blocking isn't that much better considering we use 2 TE's most of the time.
 
Wig, I agree, that is and should be Jesse's role, and he does have the potential to excel at it. Why not? He's 6'7" for gosh sakes. He has more reach than 90% of the TEs out there. He should be able to exploit the underneath zone and get those tough 3-4 yard plays. He was the go to guy in the Cleveland game, so I'm surprised we went away from that.

And Spike, one of my joys of watching plays develop from behind at the stadium, is watching Nix slam into a wide open LB in the gap and completely destroying him. Of course Nix is a strength, but this is a TE discussion.
 
I think that even with all his presumptive faults, young Jesse is playing quite well. He came out as a junior if I recall and has improved every step of the way. Heath didn't come out of college with a roman candle up his *** either.

Year Team ..G...Rec...Yds...Y/G...Avg

2015 PIT......8......8......56......7.0.....7.0
2016 PIT.....16...39.....338.....21.1....8.7

2017(ytd).... 6 ...28 ...193......20.......9.7

James has all the tools to be a solid #2 TE on any team and he hasn't done anything to embarrass himself.in Da Burgh. He is what he is and it's up to Haley to use him in a way that will help the team.

IMO It's not on Jesse to create that scenario. There's no reason we can't see this kinda stuff a lot more than we do....well, almost no reason.

 
SteelChip said:
I think that even with all his presumptive faults, young Jesse is playing quite well. He came out as a junior if I recall and has improved every step of the way. Heath didn't come out of college with a roman candle up his *** either.

Year Team ..G...Rec...Yds...Y/G...Avg

2015 PIT......8......8......56......7.0.....7.0
2016 PIT.....16...39.....338.....21.1....8.7

2017(ytd).... 6 ...28 ...193......20.......9.7

James has all the tools to be a solid #2 TE on any team and he hasn't done anything to embarrass himself.in Da Burgh. He is what he is and it's up to Haley to use him in a way that will help the team.

IMO It's not on Jesse to create that scenario. There's no reason we can't see this kinda stuff a lot more than we do....well, almost no reason.

Click to expand...


The highlights are nice. He wraps his hands around the ball nicely on hands catches, and immediately puts 2 arms around the ball to secure the catch and prevent strips. Great technique!

Plus he always falls forward!
 
vance does many things well. I don't think his hands are terrible , just not great... The good outweighs his bad, imo.
 
Honestly don't know what we have with this guy. I would like to see him make some plays this week. He's had a few weeks to get healthy. Make some plays and lets get this offense going
 
Report: Steelers to use Vance McDonald more over Jesse James
by Bryan DeArdo
3 hours ago

Vance McDonald could very well be Pittsburgh's starting tight end this Sunday in Indianapolis.
According to Dale Lolley of DKPittsburghSports.com, the Steelers haven't been happy with James' blocking and route running, and that McDonald should have a bigger role in Pittsburgh's offense moving forward.
After trading for him just before the start of the season, McDonald has three catches for 64 yards in six games this season. All three of those receptions have come in his last two games, as the five year veteran seemed to be gaining a rapport with Ben Roethlisberger.

Big Ben spoke about McDonald following Pittsburgh's 19-13 victory over the Chiefs back in Week 6. In that game, McDonald made a huge 26-yard catch to get the Steelers out of their own end zone, and nearly made another big catch later in the game.
"I missed him earlier in the game, down the sideline. We had the same sort of play, the exact same play I should say," Roethlisberger said. "Just missed him, by a hair. It was good to get him involved, and I think we'll continue to get him involved more. It was such a big play.
"I want him to know that I've got all the confidence in the world in him. I know he takes it hard on himself when he doesn't make a play. But we need to get him more involved. He knows the offense now, we need to supplement him and Jesse because they bring some different things to the table."

Pittsburgh's fifth round pick in the 2015 NFL Draft, James has 20 receptions for 193 yards and two touchdowns this season. And while he's on the pace to set career high in just about every statistical category, it appears that the Steelers want to see more of what McDonald can do during the second half of the 2017 season.

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburg...-McDonald-more-over-Jesse-James-110228342/Amp
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top